'69 Panther

garyl62

Active member
Been looking at getting into the vintage sled arena and have found this sled. Don't know much about it as I haven't seen it in person, but guy says it hasn't run in 3 years, turn freely, looks in decent shape and is priced right for me as he just wants it gone. What am I getting myself into if I travel down this road? Where do you go to find parts, info and help for stuff like this? Any suggestions would be great.
 
T

Team Elkhorn

Guest
Welcome to the world of vintage sleds. Which motor does it have? (I think they used five different motor manufacturers in '69.) Cat built a lot of Panthers so parts should be fairly easy to find. The old stuff is much easier to work on then the newer stuff. And chasing down the parts is half the fun.
 

jr37

Well-known member
Vintage sleds are so much fun. After you buy it, get yourself registered on Vintagesleds.com. There is a world of knowledge there, and parts for sleds you never knew existed.
 

gary_in_neenah

Super Moderator
Staff member
Good Memories

Gary,
The 69 Panther was my family's first snowmobile and though it's been many years I still recall many of the features and characteristics of that machine. I suspect that Cat was selling Panthers as fast as they could build them back then as that would explain various engines in the same models. Ours had a Rockwell JLO, our neighbors had a Sachs in theirs. I recall that the Panthers came with a Wankel Rotary too. They also had a couple of different hoods for the Panther, the regular one with the headlight in the middle and also the Big Mouth Puma hood with Montana Pipes on the large Hirth model. The Leopard Print seat was removable with snaps, this enabled you to take the seat indoors at night and start out with a warm seat the next day.

Our Panther wasn't especially reliable. The Headlight would burn out regularly, the gas tank leaked and the steel cleated track was hazardous, or fun, when ridden on glare ice. It was pretty slow even for that era, maybe 35 mph on a good day. I believe that by the end of the second year it was completely worn out and Dad replaced it with a 399 Panther with a Kawasaki engine.

The Panthers are well represented whenever I attend a Vintage Show in our area. Here's a picture of one that is an exact copy of the one we had in 1969. Cat was one the first to have the Tip Up hood to access the engine, another feature was the Tool Box just in front of the seat which in our case held an ample supply of spare spark plugs!
Enjoy your new hobby Gary, be sure to take plenty of pictures to share on J.D.
 

Attachments

  • 69 Panther.jpg
    69 Panther.jpg
    95.6 KB · Views: 46
  • 69 Panther JLO 2.jpg
    69 Panther JLO 2.jpg
    47.1 KB · Views: 43
Last edited:

garyl62

Active member
Well I went and looked at it. Not really sure he knows what he has. He tells me its newer than a '69, even his registration card shows it as a '72 but from checking vin #'s and doing some research I've figured out it is a '69 P-22S. Which puts it with a Sachs 368 motor. Looks like just over 900 were produced. Can't say I would say this was "decent" shape. Broken windshield, bent front bumper, chevy name plates riveted on all over it, mice living in most sheltered areas, and a real weathered look to the entire thing. Also, he says it ran 10 years ago and hasn't since. Still looks to have the original cleated track.

Thoughts from anyone? Good first project sled, or keep my cash and move on?

Here are some photos. He does have the seat, it as a couple cuts in it but not real bad. Any idea what I should pay?

20130527_105735.jpg 20130527_105722.jpg 20130527_105727.jpg 20130527_105536.jpg
 
Last edited:

snoluver1

Active member
Here are some photos. He does have the seat, it as a couple cuts in it but not real bad. Any idea what I should pay?

I would ask him to pay YOU for hauling it away for him. lol!;)

Seriously though, from the pics it appears to be structurally pretty sound, and that is half the battle. I think it would make a decent first project for sure, but I wouldn't give a whole lot for it. Maybe a hundred bucks at the most.
 

gary_in_neenah

Super Moderator
Staff member
Oh Boy! I think I'd pass on this one. Kind of a "Frankenstein" look, I'm not familiar with the graphics as they didn't start using purple until 71 or 72. Yet there's no shocks on the skis which puts it in the late 60's. The engine was built in 69 but is it the original engine? Not that it matters in this case, just observations on my part. I gotta say that if it were me, I'd keep looking.
 

gary_in_neenah

Super Moderator
Staff member
71 Panther.jpg I did a little more digging on the Net and found this picture of a 71 Panther with the same graphics. By 71 they were using a flat bumper including the color graphics as shown therefore the Fixer Upper has a 69 body and engine with an Aftermarket Hood and Graphics. The 71 also has the Puma Hood and Montana Pipes that I mentioned earlier housing a 760 cc JLO.
 
I would continue to look as well. Don't know what your budget is, but you can usually find running sleds for $500 and up on Ebay or Craigslist. Try to find something that has been sitting in a garage as opposed to outside. You start getting into the mouse nest harnesses and missing parts etc.. gets expensive real quick. Don't know how big of a resto you want to do? Ebay can be a good source for parts as well. If it is a more popular model like arctic cat panther, parts may be easier to come by.
 

garyl62

Active member
View attachment 40743 I did a little more digging on the Net and found this picture of a 71 Panther with the same graphics. By 71 they were using a flat bumper including the color graphics as shown therefore the Fixer Upper has a 69 body and engine with an Aftermarket Hood and Graphics. The 71 also has the Puma Hood and Montana Pipes that I mentioned earlier housing a 760 cc JLO.


Thanks Gary,

Here is a link for a site I use to see what each year looks like. http://www.bosscatlegacy.com/sitemap/sitemap.htm If you go to the section called "Snowmobile Models by Year" you can see a lot of photos of vintage sleds. Then in '98 they just went with the stock promo photos. Based on the info there I'm pretty sure it is a stock '69 but someone put a '71 decal on it.

The guys ad says he wants $400 obo. Before I went to look at it I was thinking more like $200, but now I'll wait a few days and see what his bottom dollar will be. I doubt I'd go more than $125 and even that may be a stretch. Who knows, by next weekend I might just walk away too.
 

skiroule

Well-known member
I don't know Gary. First you're off-trailing and now a hint of interest in the vintage world. Should we be concerned?

It really doesn't look too bad but as Snoluver1 said, I would offer around $100 if you decide that is the way to go. I can tell you from experience though, they look a lot better in photos than they do in real life. Parts shouldn't really be a problem but it seems like there is always stuff you need to get that you weren't planning on. If you're after the traditional vintage ride, this could be a candidate.

Based on the work you've done on your other sleds, it's obvious you're not afraid to dig in and get your hands dirty, but if it were me, I might look at spending a little more up front for something that is a little closer to "ready to ride". Your cash outlay might be about the same.

I'm sure you've already done so but if not, spend some time on VintageSleds classified. There are always new sleds going up for sale and many aren't too far away. There's a ton of them out there in the $300 - $500 range that are in riding condition or very close. If you see something you like though, jump on it. The good deals go fast. Since you're a Cat guy I'll mention that I think an El Tigre' is really what you need. I think they are some of the coolest vintage sleds around. A guy about 50 miles north of me has this pair for sale for $700 - pretty slick, dual plug cylinders.

El-Tigre_1.jpg El-Tigre_2.jpg



Whatever you decide, I hope you get something. We're not too far away from having a grassroots J.D. vintage movement.
 
Last edited:

garyl62

Active member
Thanks guys, I guess I'm drawn to the late 60's or very early 70's with the cheetah print on the seats and the front ends that don't resemble anything of the sleds from about '75 or later. Don't really have a budget, plan, or timeline so we'll see what happens. This one just happened to be about 4 miles from home so it was easy to go look at and was able to do it without making it into trip that the wife would say was a waste of time since I better not plan on spending money on something like that. This one could have just appeared in the shop somehow. :) We'll see............
 

skiroule

Well-known member
Thanks guys, I guess I'm drawn to the late 60's or very early 70's with the cheetah print on the seats and the front ends that don't resemble anything of the sleds from about '75 or later.

Gary, now you've narrowed the search criteria considerably. I have to admit the cheetah/leopard (whichever it is) print, while a little cheesy, put the cat look on the Cat. I have a friend that says the late 60's sleds looked like little cars with tracks.

Since this sled is in your window of interest, close by, and figuring in your time and the cost of fuel to pick something else up, you might have some room to up the offer a little. Maybe offer him $200 cash on the spot. After all, you're making his sale easier as well. If you can get it for around that price range, you don't have much in it if it doesn't work out as planned.

One nice thing about the cats is they went with an unpainted aluminum tunnel early in the game. No rust and very little or no grinding/sanding. If the mounting plates are steel, that's about the only thing that needs sanding/blasting and repainting.

If the motor has spark, it's bucking the odds (most don't from sitting and points/condensors were a little problematic). Points/condensor replacement is almost automatic and should be done anyway just for reliability reasons. Sometimes flywheel removal can be a bear on these old motors but with the right puller they'll usually come off.

One of the Vintage Sled ads mentioned installing a rectifier in the wiring system on a late 60s' Cat that supposedly eliminated the headlight burn-out problem that Gary "South of Lambeau Field" mentioned.

If you decide to work a deal, keep us informed. It makes for great reading in the off season.
 

garyl62

Active member
Haven't done anything more on this. Just trying to balance budgets with the whim of getting into a project. May wait a couple weeks and see if he still has it. If so, maybe he'll be open to a more realistic offer based on condition and what the market is. If I could pick it up for $150, I'd probably do it. It may just sit in the shop for a while, but at least I'd have something tangible to plan with.

I'll let you know what happens.
 
D

Deleted member 10829

Guest
I just saw a very nice 1971 Puma on vintagesleds.com and thought of you. It's $975 but looks like very nice and ready to ride!
 

garyl62

Active member
Haven't done much looking in the past 10 days or so. Noticed the ad for the sled that started this whole conversation was re-posted but also have seen a lot out there in the 4-500 range that are running. Much more than that and it becomes an "investment" not just some side "fun" money. I'll have to start looking again and see what I can find that's close to me.
 

mmalott

New member
Gary, my name is Mike Malott and I live close to Marion Indiana. I have a 1969 Panther that you may be interested in. If so, my number is 765-618-2186.
 

garyl62

Active member
Gary, my name is Mike Malott and I live close to Marion Indiana. I have a 1969 Panther that you may be interested in. If so, my number is 765-618-2186.

Thanks Mike, but unless you're driving my direction and could bring something this way, you're a little to far for me to be interested at this point in time. You can PM me if you'd like to give me some more info, or if you have travel plans in the future.
 

Bradzoo

Active member
Gary, I know you said you really wanted late 60's early 70's cat but this looks like a pretty good deal and its in the area, its in the Vintage Sleds classifieds

For Sale: 1974 El Tigre 295
Posted By: DAVEL Time Posted: 2013-08-17 00:33:01
Location: Rockford, IL Email: rvdave@live.com
Phone: 8156217293



74 Track tunes 295 El Tigre, runs good, normal wear and tear. nothing serious wrong or missing. Have more pics. $500 or consider trade on 250 enticer oval sled.

Bradzoo
 
Top