A question for the racers

[Admin]

So I was thumbing through one of the snowmobile rags recently and saw a picture of someone racing and they were standing as far back on the running boards as possible and the front end of the sled was up off the ground. I have seen LOTS of racers ride that way in a drag race and my question is why?

I have never raced in a formal format, only impromptu races on a lake or big field. However, it would seem to me that you want as much track on the surface to give you as much traction as possible. Plus, you are wasting all that work the engine does in raising the front of the sled UP, instead of FORWARD.

What am I missing here?

-John

 

[Dsbasecamp]

Traction & weight transfer... but doing track stand is bad...1 -2 inchs of ski lift is required

 

[chad66]

The idea is to help weight transfer and get better traction. you dont see racers doing it simply because there sleds are set up to do one thing, transfer weight and go straight. Your right that you want the track on the ground and the ski's an inch or two off the ground but on a trail sled that's set up to turn you usually have to get your weight back a little more to help get better traction.

Chad@M&M

 

[purproadking]

if you start to pull one way or another you can steer alittle bit by putting weight with your legs to the side you want to go to.

 

[xcr440]

Rider weight is on the sled, front, back or middle. Works best to have it where you are going to get maximum traction without track spin, and that is towards the rear.

 

[Dsbasecamp]

Use to have a hat that said ( You Lift You Lose )

 

[Admin]

Rider weight is on the sled, front, back or middle. Works best to have it where you are going to get maximum traction without track spin, and that is towards the rear.

See, this what I don't get. First off, I have not seen too many riders pull a wheelie standing at the front of the sitting postion, with their foot in the wells. At least not without the help of a hill. So where the rider puts his weight will matter in where it is distributed to the sled. I know this just from riding my own sled. It is the whole concept behind tossing the sled around in a field of powder, carving a side hill or weight transfer in a turn.

The track is driven on the front end, so that to me is one reason to have the front of the track on the ground, otherwise a lot of energy the engine produces is gone (wasted) to weight transfer and the changing of the dynamics of the rear skid.

Plus, track spin would be more a factor of how much track you have on the ground, not what part of the track is on the ground. It is a big reason why cars race with big fat tires in the rear and not thin little ones.

I don't remember seeing any asphalt guys pulling big wheelies.

-John

 

[Dsbasecamp]

Most straight line racers (tie) down ther suspension ..front & rear so most of the energy goes straight to the track.. with the front tied down the rear of slead is light and needs weight for traction

 

[Admin]

Most straight line racers (tie) down ther suspension ..front & rear so most of the energy goes straight to the track.. with the front tied down the rear of slead is light and needs weight for traction

This I can see, as the track is being forced to remain as flat on the ground as possible via a mechanical change to the sled. I also understand that a bit of ski lift is inevitable and could even be advantageous in maximizing energy transfer to the ground. I guess I am talking about the guy that you see standing as far back on the sled, intentionally getting the sled to pull a wheelie with skis 10-15" off the ground and about half the track in contact with the ground.

-John

 

[chad66]

See, this what I don't get. First off, I have not seen too many riders pull a wheelie standing at the front of the sitting postion, with their foot in the wells. At least not without the help of a hill. So where the rider puts his weight will matter in where it is distributed to the sled. I know this just from riding my own sled. It is the whole concept behind tossing the sled around in a field of powder, carving a side hill or weight transfer in a turn.

The track is driven on the front end, so that to me is one reason to have the front of the track on the ground, otherwise a lot of energy the engine produces is gone (wasted) to weight transfer and the changing of the dynamics of the rear skid.

Plus, track spin would be more a factor of how much track you have on the ground, not what part of the track is on the ground. It is a big reason why cars race with big fat tires in the rear and not thin little ones.

I don't remember seeing any asphalt guys pulling big wheelies.

-John[/QUOTE

It's all in the set up. If your not set up to do anything besides drag race your going to get better traction by being towards the rear of the vehicle and helping it transfer weight to the back...there is a fine line of TOO MUCH weight transfer (big wheelies). Watch the start of a snow cross race, all the drivers and standing mid machine to help the sled transfer weight and get better traction in a straight line but not all the way at the back so that it just wheelies. They need to set up their sleds up to have the happy medium of turning and also transfering weight.

 

[Dsbasecamp]

Showing off...or...stupid.. good way to get hurt on the grass..done it for many years & seen alot of crazies go right into the fence

 

[Admin]

Thanks Chad and Don.

I guess I really needed to word my initial question better, as I was really wondering why you see so many pulling the big wheelies (skis more than 4-5" off the ground and much of the track off the ground).

Your explanations have helped with the understanding of the more serious or experienced racers techniques.

-John

 

[xcr440]

I guess I was trying to put the visualization of having your feet towards the rear, leaning forward on the bars, so the weight would be distributed evenly and mostly on the track, as you do get some natural lift from a start. Set up is everything for a "race" as noted.

 

[favoritos]

I'm pretty sure that the finish line results will fall in line to your thinking John. The big boys that win consistanly do not pull the front way up in the air. Most of them are actually crouched low and forward on the chassis.

 

[amo]

Anytime I'm standing with my feet towards the rear is for large mogul sections. This way it allows my arms to act more like a control (shock if you will) to keep the front low and the track on the ground. In this position you can "feel" the transfer off a mogul or even a jump and adjust your body weight and position quickly to keep the machine on the move

I can't say the same is true when seated, when the sled pops off a mogul or jump you are pretty much along for the ride...

 

[busa-rew]

Hi John. This is a real race sled. Enjoy the ride. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLaRhJebH8Q

 

[racerx]

When i was doing asphalt the pros told me to set it up to keep it down on the front, "If you lift you loose ET". It was never really explained to me in detail so I could understand as I was pretty green at the time and taking in so much as a start-up a lot of stuff to digest so it was confusing. But my experience was until I got the front down I was having to steer with the track since the sled tended to drift more to one side or another and that I figured it was due to balance of weight left to right. It is not easy to be exactly centered every time.

With that being said, when I was leaning to correct the direction every time I ran slower and the numbers proved that. The how or why of that I can not exactly explain but I figured it was due to energy being wasted to correct vs. just going forward not to mention sometimes I ended up "letting off" a bit to keep it straight which is not what you want to do in a straightline race. When I had the sled "on the ground" it was point and shoot unless I did not line up straight while staging but having it on the ground made it easier to correct with less of an impact on ET lose.

One other thing, is that I did see more track spin when the sled lifted and transferred too much to the rear. The more PSI on less surface area (half contact) did not help which you think it would vs less PSI on a larger area (full contact), at least on the asphalt.

Really, I'm not sure I still understand it all as it has been a few years, but seeing it made me believe even tho I could not fully understand.