Chemistry Project

[02zr600]

Hey John, working on a water related project for my College Chemistry class and my group decided to focus on Lake Effect Snow in the Western UP. Me and my partner come up to that area riding nearly every winter. Just wondering if we could used some of the info you have posted in this forum as a source? We need an "expert" or professional person involved in our topic area and I figured that you would serve well as our chosen person if you choose to let us use your forum infromation. We will be searching for information such as how does lake effect snow differ from regular snow, how does being in an les area change snow totals vs a non lake effect area, and how lake effect forms, all of which I recall reading on the site at one time or another. We can just use the search feature for this I assume. Also, could you point us to some of the sites that you get your les infromation from so we can do some futher investigating?

Any and all help you can give to us would be greatly appriciated,
02zr600 and 02zl600ss
Northwest Iowa

 

[frnash]

Hey John, working on a water related project for my College Chemistry class and my group decided to focus on Lake Effect Snow in the Western UP. Me and my partner come up to that area riding nearly every winter. Just wondering if we could used some of the info you have posted in this forum as a source? We need an "expert" or professional person involved in our topic area and I figured that you would serve well as our chosen person if you choose to let us use your forum infromation [sic]. We will be searching for information such as how does lake effect snow differ from regular snow, how does being in an les area change snow totals vs a non lake effect area, and how lake effect forms, all of which I recall reading on the site at one time or another. We can just use the search feature for this I assume. Also, could you point us to some of the sites that you get your les [sic] infromation [sic] from so we can do some futher [sic] investigating?

Any and all help you can give to us would be greatly appriciated [sic],
02zr600 and 02zl600ss
Northwest Iowa

Not to upstage John, as I have gleaned some extremely valuable information on LES from John as well, but here's the other best technical document I've found for LAKE EFFECT SNOW FORECASTING, from theweatherprediction.com.
<hr size="2" width="75%">P.S.: "infromation, futher, appriciated" — And Lake Effect Snow is abbreviated "LES" (all upper case).

Does spelling count at NWI? It sure did at Michigan Tech when I was there, and all we had for a "spell check" was a paper dictionary! But we were expected to get it right, or have our work downgraded! (I know, picky, picky!)
<hr size="2" width="75%">You might find this interesting as well (although really very "over the top" techno, and not nearly as helpful as the previous item.): SatMet Lab Exercise: Nowcasting Lake Effect Snow.

"Learn to forecast lake effect snow via a lab exercise from the Cooperative Program for Operational Meteorology, Education, and Training (COMET)"

 

[02zr600]

Thanks for the heads up on the LES! Haha actually, we go to a highschool in NW Iowa and this is for a duel credit class (both high school and college) one of the benifits of living in a town with a local community college. Thanks for the pages too, that's the kind of stuff we need!

 

[frnash]

Thanks for the heads up on the LES! Haha actually, we go to a highschool in NW Iowa and this is for a duel [sic] credit class (both high school and college) one of the benifits [sic] of living in a town with a local community college. Thanks for the pages too, that's the kind of stuff we need!

Duel? Pistols at 20 paces? benifits? Groan!

 

[frnash]

And what I believe is the most valuable and concise explanation I've seen to date from John may be found in this post from 12/17/2010. (The search terms I used to find it are highlighted.)

Enough from me; handoff to John.

 

[02zr600]

and that is why I am in College Chemisty and not College Spelling! Thanks again frnash!

 

[jd]

02zr600-

Feel free to use any info from the site in your project. I don't know if you wanted me to answer the questions you listed in your initial post, but I can if you want.

I don't really know of any sites for specific info on LES. Just about all of my knowledge on the subject came via living in the LES capital of the world. I would be happy to share any of that knowledge with you.

-John

 

[weatherjan]

chemistry project

One of the first studies on Lake Effect Snow (LES) was performed by R.L. Peace from Cornell and R.B. Sykes of SUNY Oswego. This early study was entitled "Mesoscale Lake Effect Snow Storm" and published in the Aug. 1966 issue of Monthly Weather Review. There are many studies of LES that have also been published by Drs. Robert Ballentine and Alfred Stamm also of SUNY Oswego. Dr. Douglas Paine (Cornell) and Dr. Michael Kaplan (SUNY Albany) have also published their research work. Several of these studies focus on single band snowbands generated by Lake Ontario where snowfall rates of 14"/hr have occurred.

Good luck on your work,
Jan Sterling

 

[02zr600]

Thanks

Thanks to everyone for their help. John, we do have one question yet. What properties of lake effect snow are different from what one would consider normal snow? i recall reading about higher air content between the crystals of the flakes, but I'm not sure. There was also something about compaction that would be interesting for the class to learn about. Thanks for any info.

 

[jd]

What typically sets LES apart from system snow is not the process by which it forms, but rather the environment in which it forms. With the exception of early season LES, when the lakes are usually so warm, it typically takes a very cold airmass to produce LES. This type of airmass usually does not occur with a system snow event, in fact they tend to be very dry and inhibit precipitation formation.

So that cold air leads to a very low moisture content in LES, or in snow that is very powdery. Typical moisture ratios in a LES event will be on the order of 20:1 to 30:1 and can get as high as 45 or even 50:1. That is very light and fluffy snow and is sometimes called by locals "broom snow" as you can brush 6" of it off a sidewalk with a broom.

This light and fluffy snow contains a lot of air in it when it first accumulates and as a result it settles more over time. That is the main reason why we can see around 250" of it fall in an average season, but not have more than around 4-5 feet on the ground.

-John

 

[02zr600]

alright guys, thanks for all the help! finally got to present Friday and all went well! Owe part of my grade to yall! Thanks again!