Dealer says "no more Isopropyl alcohol in the gas tank"

[fredster]

OK, if this was a previous topic my apologies, but I thought I should share this. Since my wife's 600 burned down last weekend I have been going over things in my mind - that is, what did I do wrong - bad fuel, dirty carbs, too much isopropyl alcohol in the gas?

I called the dealership today and talked to the service manager. Told him I was concerned since the burn down appeared to be pretty extensive (both cylinders) and wanted to make sure they find the root cause.

I mentioned that I had added isopropyl alcohol twice - once in November when I got the sled out of storage (along with 5 gallons of fresh gas) and again when gassing up Saturday morning for the first ride - and might have added a lot. To my surprise, he told me that they have been receiving communications from the OEM's telling them to advise customers to not use ANY isopropyl alcohol with today's fuel. The combination of 10% ethanol and significant quantities of isopropyl alcohol is causing burndowns in otherwise healthy sleds.

Now I'm really curious to see if they find anything in the carbs. If it was the 'fuel mix' I'm really going to cry.

One of the folks who responded to my original burndown post suggested the same thing, looks like they might have been right.

Will post again after the diagnosis is done...later this week.

 

[micelist]

The ski doo book for 09 ski doos says to add it if you are not using any ethonal but not to if using 10% ethonal fuel.. The book I have is for an etec machine.

 

[simonsr1]

alcohol is bad for engines, with todays fuel that have 10% alcohol allready, there is no need for adding isoproply to the fuel, most cars today if they have more than 15% alcohol in them they dont run very well. I always just fill the tanks to the top when I put them away for storage, and then I just take it easy for the first ride of the year to use up the old gas, I dont even use stabil

 

[indyxcr]

I have used it and never had problems but only add a tablespoon not a bottle not 1/2 bottle not even a 1/4 of a bottle unless you have a full tank like 12 gallons on my Polaris sled and using 92 or 93 octane gas with no 10 ethanol if you do then only a tablespoon, if the gas has no 10% ethanol then you can add up to 1/4 bottle but only if it is extreme cold, I only have used a tablespoon or too.
I have looked in my tank at night and saw a small ring of ice in the gas floating in it before, 1 tablespoon and your good. When it is 10 or warmer none needed 0 or -20 below yes.

 

[xcr440]

ANYTHING you add to the fuel will lean out the air/fule ratio, possibly more than it will take.
Sounds to me like you added too much, causing the lean condition that burned it up (Or Down as you say).

A splash of Iso-heat is all you need, when its REALLY cold, most mechanics will tell you NOT to use it.

 

[fastercat]

star brite star tron at walmart in the marine section, no alcohol and it keeps water out, cleans injectors, prolongs fuel life, it works great, 1 ounce per every 3 tanks is what i have been using, i did alot of research and alot of people are using this, 16oz. $8.94

 

[xcsp]

Fredster, how much Iso did you put in the fuel-total, and was it all fresh fuel in the tank, meaning that the tank was empty during storage?

If there was fuel from summer storage, and no fuel stabilizer used, could have had the ethanol separate from the fuel, which settles to the bottom of the tank which can cause problems.

I've read on other forums where people have used Iso with or w/o the 10% ethanol fuels and haven't had problems.

 

[anonomoose]

Since nearly ALL fuel has acohol in it aready, why would you add more? 10% is MORE than enough to mix condensation in the fuel.

Also as the temps go down, your nice learn burning oil stingy sleds need MORE oil, not less. Lubing the engine is critical. Most manuals tell you this if anybody bothers to READ it anymore.

While there are lots of things to dump in the tank from the auto parts places, these things could very well be doing more HARM than good.

If you store your sled with fuel in it, in the fall draw down the fuel and add fresh. Go ahead and dump a few ounces of injector oil right in the tank. It won't hurt and will give your "lean burn" engine a little extra start in the first tank or two.

With the push to "clean up" the engines out there, by running with less and less oil, there is a greater and greater chance that if any conditions come along that might go over the line ---cold, wet, anything, you can expect to hear more and more about burned down engines. Penny wise and pound foolishness. Use common sense, be sure you take care of your sled better than you EVER did, and use preventive maintance as much as possible. Bad fuel can alway do a number on yah, but all the other factors are up to you.

 

[eyeman]

Consensus

Only in an emergency will I use gas that has ethanol in it for both the snow machines and boats (inboard and outboards). I have a horror story of being stranded in the middle of Lake Erie in high winds caused by phasing of old 10% ethanol fuel. I never ever us ISO anymore (just put a gallon of 10% in every 5th tank). My son burned down his ZR600 - overheated caused by to much alcohol. These are just 2 stories and I have many more including a truck that went down and was diagnosed with phasing (I visually saw the separation and the gas station insurance eventually covered some of my towing and repair costs). NO ETHANOL and be very cautious with the use of ISO. I will say that if you burn lots of fuel you will likely have no problems with the 10%. The trouble occurs with tanks left half full, changing temperatures and associated condensation and storage. I do not run my machines daily so I use only premium without enthanol.

 

[fredster]

xcsp - I usually store my sleds with < 2 gallons of gas, that has been treated with a fuel stabilizer. Then fill to the top with fresh gas, which is usually 10 gallons on more on a 12 gallon tank.

This past year, our riding season ended abruptly, and I believe the wife's sled had more like 4-5 gallons of gas in it when I put it away. I did add stabilizer, and then warmed the engine up and drained the carbs in early March when I did other end-of-season maintenance.

I added five gallons of fresh gas in mid-November, maybe 1/4 bottle of ISO (oops!) and warmed up the engine but did not ride it.

When I got it out last weekend the logic was it's been sitting for 45 days and perhaps needed ISO. Didn't think about previously adding some in November - on older sleds we'd add it every time we added gas. I asked my son to add some (and he did - less than 1/4 bottle as it was still relatively full when he handed it back to me) and then we headed to the gas station (rode about 15 miles) where we topped the tank with another 3 gallons of gas.

From there we rode another 20-25 miles and she went boom. So when the burndown occured, the "new" gas represented 9 gallons and the "old" gas was 3 gallons or less.

I believe my problem was a combination of separated old gas plus way too much ISO. Strange that the engine held together for the first 15 miles until the gas station since the fuel mixture was likely even worse during that time.

I've learned my lesson! Will be draining the tank and carbs at season's end. I picked up some 'marine grade' Stabil which addresses the ethanol separation and will be adding that whenever the sleds are sitting for more than a couple of weeks.

Still waiting on the dealer mechanic call, will post an update after I hear from them.

 

[xcsp]

Fredster, seen your other post on the exhaust valve being the problem. From what you state here on what was in your fuel tank, I personally don't think there would have been "too much" Iso in the fuel if you had 1/2 bottle to 12 gal. of gas.

Also, from what I've been reading, when using fuel stabilizers, they should be added when the fuel is fresh, just purchased, to better protect it as the stabilizers cannot "undo" any degradation in the fuel.

Sure would like to see a legitimate, non-bias test on the available stabilizers, and other additives that claim to work.

 

[indyxcr]

Also I start my sled every month early in the morning when it is warm in the summer let it run 5 minutes, this way it circulates the fuel and antifreeze and spins the track and belt and keeps from flat spots on your belt and track. This will also keep your gas from separating.
My dad and friends do this and never has problems, then in November drain all gas and put new 92 octane in and your good.
By doing this you will never have to clean the carbs, or injectors and it will start on 2 pulls and will save your fuel lines from cracking and so on, only 1 or 2 table spoons of isopropyl in your tank.

 

[xcsp]

Also I start my sled every month early in the morning when it is warm in the summer let it run 5 minutes, this way it circulates the fuel and antifreeze and spins the track and belt and keeps from flat spots on your belt and track. This will also keep your gas from separating.
My dad and friends do this and never has problems, then in November drain all gas and put new 92 octane in and your good.
By doing this you will never have to clean the carbs, or injectors and it will start on 2 pulls and will save your fuel lines from cracking and so on, only 1 or 2 table spoons of isopropyl in your tank.

I'd think you'd need to run it longer than 5 minutes to make sure you could get rid of all the moisture/condensation out of the motor.

As I store my sled off-site with no access during the summer, I drain the fuel as low as possible, add stabilizer to what is remaining, run the sled and fog the engine and it is not re-started until when it's riding season again. Also remove the drive belt.

 

[indyxcr]

Only 5 minutes from May,June,July,August, and September, the rest maybe a little longer 7 to 10 minutes depends how cool or warm it is.
Also put the sled on a lift or at least raise the back of the sled to spin the track also this will save your shocks takes all the weight off of them.

 

[raysxc700]

what kinda fogger are you guys using ?

 

[tyeeman]

You couldn' t pay me enough to add more alcahol to any fuel I use in any of my toys or trucks. I read a number of articles on phaze separation in fuel that contains ethanol and the problems that result from phaze separation. That did it for me.
The Co-op in the town I live in has a pump with non-oxygenated fuel, so I use that when I can. I use fuel stabilizer in any fuel for my toys, yard equipment, if I think the it won't be used for a few weeks. On my boat, I never totally fill the tank unless I know I'll use most of the fuel in a few days, and whenever I fuel the boat, I always use stabilizer. So far so good, no problems yet, , , knock on wood.