Off Grid "Camp"

garyl62

Active member
I know some of you have this type of thing, wondered what you do for lights and if you have a fridge, any water/drain set-up etc. I've started looking at some areas and I'm considering including acreage w/o power in my search. Thought about wiring for a generator, but not sure I want one running for 4 days straight, looked into propane lights and fridge, not too sure about that, especially because I'm not sure how they will work in the winter and if they need an intake and vent system. I've read about water pumps and gray water "irrigation" systems which I think are really just a fancy way of getting around some zoning and putting your sink and shower water in a dry well type of leech field. What about wood stove vs ventless propane wall heaters? I'm sure there are things I haven't thought of, and other things I'm over analyzing.

Any experience you all have would be great to hear about.
 

garyl62

Active member
first things first....is there a wife/life partner involved?....LOL

She may come for a weekend, but probably only in the summer. If there is a roof, real bed, comfortable chair and possibly a screened in porch she'll "rough it" for about 3-4 nights.
 

tourguide

New member
I know of many camps that are run off automotive batteries. Used to stay at a place in Kenton and one of the locals ran his place like that too, would bring his batteries in to the store to be charged once a week. Have seen many kitchen sinks with hand pump wells and 55 gallon drums for water storage, also lots of solar panels.
 

goofy600

Well-known member
Are you really looking to get off the grid or is it because it will cost less? Being way back in the woods can become very difficult to get to in all seasons because most are going to be private roads that you will have to maintain. I'm not off the grid with my place but do have about 10 miles of roads that are all woods so I carry a chainsaw at all times. Something to think about in your quest thing like this all add to costs also!
 

Builder Bob

New member
No experience, except I do solar, & electrical
For electrical needs you need to come up with a list.
Thoughts
For a freezer, a bank of batteries, inverter, & a Solar charger may work.
A small genset will work, but you do not need it 24/7.
Yes many options
Think about the potty, much pivots on that decision. They sell water towers, for a situation like this. Keep the water moving it won't freeze.
 

joks79

Member
Solar has come a long way. You can have a generator for backup and for running power tools. For the domestic water PEX is your friend. Set it up to self drain and be able to blow out the lines with a small air compressor. The newer propane refrigerators work well.
 

bearrassler

Well-known member
My wife's family owned a small island in NW MN until the late 80's. It had propane plumbed into the cabin for lights, stove, and fridge /freezer. It had an outside well that we would haul buckets of water from, and had an outhouse. I remember thinking that inside the cabin I didn't notice any difference with the lights and appliances.
 

fredster

New member
My BIL has a place near seney - no indoor plumbing, has an outhouse about 30 feet from the door. Wired for generator which he brings in each trip. Has a top of the line temp controlled woodstove that will make heat for up to 20 hours on a load. The woodstove does a great job of keeping the place toasty the entire time we're there.

He has a hand pump which he sets up on an outside well and draws 10-15 gallons of water which he then brings inside (along with the pump, before it freezes!).

He only runs the gennie early morning and evening when we need lights....there is also a radiant heater in the outhouse which is nice.

The first time we went there I was skeptical, but it actually all works well. We heat up water at night to wash up, and leave all the perishables on the porch in coolers. The best part, when he kills the gennie at night, it is pitch black, and dead silent....I sleep better there than anywhere else.....
 

Swampy

Member
We have a cabin about a mile off a gravel road and further than that from any power. We wired for gennei power and run two gas lights. One over the kitchen area and of course one over the card table. We are fortunate to be by a river for dish water and also have a catch basin to catch rain water off the roof. We have a loft with a shower base and portable shower curtain and hang a sun shower bag from the ceiling. Shower feels awesome after a couple days. We just bring fresh water along for drinking and showering because the river water plugs the sun shower.
Coolers work just fine for us. Just one less thing to worry about as far as a fridge goes.
I put an antenna on the roof so we can catch a few football games and maybe some news. I get more channels there than at home with an antenna.
Like fredster said, I also sleep better at the cabin!
 

Builder Bob

New member
Only as a point of interest, I saw 2 examples of water siphon;
The Hearst Castle in San Simeon California is about 1600' above SL, but it is truly desert.
About 10 miles away was a lake, from the lake, (@3500' above SL) engineers snaked a siphon up/down mountains to a reservoir adjacent to the castle. All hand dug
The Hearst castle uses a lot of water, still works today.

I saw siphons in Mexico on a much smaller scale, Poly tubes were run from elevated mountain streams into town.
These runs were about 700' -1500' in length. When there was no water for the toilets to flush, some young lad was forced to walk up and make sure the hose end was in the stream, and the length of the hose was intact. Kids were in good shape.
10 - 1/4" ID Polyflow would supply enough water for a town named Yalapa Jalisco, maybe 300 people.
I would ask about the "Black water" and what happened to that? where would that go?
The towns people would just look at each other and reply
"Don't know what is meant" or no sé
I believe that the government or locals placed a pipe from town to another stream, or sent it down stream. After a good thunderstorm everything was made to disappear.


Do you have a water source "above" you?
 
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frnash

Active member
Sounds a bit like "Alaska: The Last Frontier" too: a siphon from a spring-fed pond above the homestead to the house.

There are many artesian wells (i.e. springs) in "da UP" too; there was one that flowed out of the face of one of the clay slides near the Middle Branch of the Ontonagon River that was used to supply an old hunting camp just a short way from the river many decades ago (it's probably still flowing today).
 

snobuilder

Well-known member
Damn, all of this rustic living talk gets me so much more appreciative of the power, well and septic tank that was on my land when I bought it,...all just 200' off a plowed road.....LMAO!
 

garyl62

Active member
I need to give you all a little more info, I'm just looking at locations and getting ideas. I know I want someplace close to the trail where I don't see the neighbors and have a few, to as many as 40 acres, off a public road and if possible with some of the things installed that snobuilder was lucky enough to get. If I end up with nothing and no power close by, I've thought about what my options would be so I was asking the question to see what other people have done. Part of the idea was also to start out with a "garage" that we could base out of for a couple years before building an actual cabin. In Houghton Co you can build a garage or storage building and not install power, or obviously septic or well. As soon as you want to build something to live in, if power is available you have to install a well and septic. Those 3 things can add up to a lot of $ right off the bat, so I was exploring all my options.
 

snobuilder

Well-known member
Find a lot/acreage with a throwaway mobile home that had all the goodies installed already.
Northwoods property values remain low.
 
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schnook

New member
I have been to several outpost camps with no running water or electricity. They first had Lp lights and fridge/freezer and an out house, brought water from lake for cooking and dishes, otherwise brought drinking water into camp. They have updated to to 6 volt batteries connected to get 12 volts, then installed a solar panel to recharge batteries, worked very well, only needed a few lights at nite. also installed a shower that was heated by lp heater since there was a gas fridge and stove. Also had a 12 volt pump that ran off of battery and charged by another small solar panel. grey water went to a dry well. all in all worked very well.
 

Builder Bob

New member
I need to give you all a little more info, I'm just looking at locations and getting ideas. I know I want someplace close to the trail where I don't see the neighbors and have a few, to as many as 40 acres, off a public road and if possible with some of the things installed that snobuilder was lucky enough to get. If I end up with nothing and no power close by, I've thought about what my options would be so I was asking the question to see what other people have done. Part of the idea was also to start out with a "garage" that we could base out of for a couple years before building an actual cabin. In Houghton Co you can build a garage or storage building and not install power, or obviously septic or well. As soon as you want to build something to live in, if power is available you have to install a well and septic. Those 3 things can add up to a lot of $ right off the bat, so I was exploring all my options.

With this information, it is likely that you can likely install traditional electric service.
A quick call to a local electrical contract will give you an approximate price, and then an add on, by the foot.
Electrical Service is likely found on any public road, now you must trench to the build site.
Once a contractor starts trenching it can be reasonable in cost.
No one can compete with a public utility for the cost of electricity, it is truly cheap, outages are very rare with UG service.
All of these thoughts are dependent on location. Don't look for poles but UG stub ups/transformers.
 

garyl62

Active member
With this information, it is likely that you can likely install traditional electric service.
A quick call to a local electrical contract will give you an approximate price, and then an add on, by the foot.
Electrical Service is likely found on any public road, now you must trench to the build site.
Once a contractor starts trenching it can be reasonable in cost.
No one can compete with a public utility for the cost of electricity, it is truly cheap, outages are very rare with UG service.
All of these thoughts are dependent on location. Don't look for poles but UG stub ups/transformers.

Thanks for the comments Bob, unfortunately it is very common in the UP that there is no electric service in areas even if there is a public road. In fact, it's common enough that a standard item on a real estate listing is if there is power available. The three statuses for that in a listing are "Yes", "not to property", or "No". Obviously "Yes" means it's there but probably needs to be trenched in to the building site, "not to property" means you'd have to bring it down the road a ways, then bring it in, and "No" means it is no where around so don't plan on it. I'm looking at properties in every one of those conditions.
 
I need to give you all a little more info, I'm just looking at locations and getting ideas. I know I want someplace close to the trail where I don't see the neighbors and have a few, to as many as 40 acres, off a public road and if possible with some of the things installed that snobuilder was lucky enough to get. If I end up with nothing and no power close by, I've thought about what my options would be so I was asking the question to see what other people have done. Part of the idea was also to start out with a "garage" that we could base out of for a couple years before building an actual cabin. In Houghton Co you can build a garage or storage building and not install power, or obviously septic or well. As soon as you want to build something to live in, if power is available you have to install a well and septic. Those 3 things can add up to a lot of $ right off the bat, so I was exploring all my options.

Good points about building in phases. Your time frame can be a consideration how you decide to buy and develop your property. I'd keep an eye on the edges of villages/towns/cities that are still losing population. There are places where whole blocks and neighborhoods have depopulated. Here is how it's worked for me. I found an abandoned house on a property that had some potential and had reverted to the state delinquent property tax auction. The house was in bad shape but small enough I could demo portions of it myself. The house was on about an acre with mature trees in what had been a mining company owned neighborhood. The mine is long since closed and eventually the lots were platted and the neighborhood annexed into an existing city. The houses were hooked to city, water and sewer although most were dilapidated or abandoned and over 25 years most were razed. I paid $350 for the property, the rest was "sweat equity" to clean up the property. The rest of the street is empty, you can see one neighbor only with all the leaves down. Over the course of 10 years I picked up three more bordering lots for reasonable prices. The remnant of the house has been made into a storage shed with the power turned back on. For now a camper provides housing and uses the power and sewer connection. The street is plowed regularly and I have about 5 acres a block from the trail with little indication you're "in town". If you can stand a little more red tape there are chances to find properties with no worries about building/maintaining the utilities for yourself. These shrinking cities would rather have someone build on every empty lot and hook up to the utilities but are realistic enough to take your payment for one hookup to run your camp, even though the bundle of empty properties around you provide the northwoods feeling you seek. Without spending much I've enjoyed developing my property and look forward to the day when I put up a cabin, the connections are already.

I also have an off the grid camp on 10 acres that I've kept deliberately simple. I can stay there for up to a week and need very little. It's two miles off a plowed public road but that's why I love it. Like others have said, dead quiet so I sleep very sound. If you buy a pack of bottled water and freeze them before going to camp, then split them into two coolers and use as ice they keep your stuff cold for many days with no mess, as they do melt you have ice water to drink.

My dad's camp is more fully developed with solar power, water collection tanks etc., it's plenty comfortable with not a lot of expense.

One last note, there is a garage-camp a couple miles down the road from my 10 acres (Houghton Co.). I know it has been repeatedly scrutinized by the building inspector to see if it functions as a garage or housing, a smoke stack? how many windows? I don't know if they were reassessed or not but they did draw attention. You might have better luck by going under the square footage if you want to start small, or with something mobile.
 
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