was wondering how there was such a small area last night to get so much damage roofs off buildings many trees down sheds blow over tree's on cars looks like a mini tornado went through that part of town not sure if you checked it out yet areas in town only have few small branches i live in laurium we maybe had winds of 30-40 and by judging the damage in the small area in calumet near the high school seems like those winds look to be like 70-80 miles an hour just wondering how thats possible when its less then a mile away from my location
thunderstorm in calumet
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dgr_calumet
New member
Thunderstorm or small tornado???
Hey guys...
My house was right in the path of the "thunderstorm/tornado" and I was awake and just letting the dogs in the house when all I heard was a freight train and all my trees went horizontal and my house, which is a pretty good size house, shook like I have never felt before. It literally took the neighbors tree and impaled branches in the telephone pole next to my house. It also took my 12 foot wide by 28 foot long by 12 foot high metal pole building, lifted it into the air, spun it 180 degrees and threw it across the road 100 feet into a full size conversion van and then pushed the van into the Calumet Methodist Church. It totaled the van (I will try to post some pictures later). The wind pushed that full size conversion van over 20 feet into the church. By the way, the metal building weighs well over 1000 pounds...in fact, I think the shipping weight is closer to 2000 pounds than it is 1000. Anyway, it also lifted my kids trampoline and tossed it on to the roof of the church where it bounced off and landed on the ground next to the church. That wind also lifted my neighbors attached garage off its foundation and bowed the walls out almost 6 inches.
When I was smaller I went through a small tornado in lower SE Michigan and I can distinctly remember the sound and I will tell you this...it was the same sound. I am not sure what the official call will be in this storm, but if you start over in Calumet near the Chevy dealer, you can follow a distinct path of destruction that runs right through my back yard, behind the church, across US-41 and then apparently jumps over to Caledonia(sp?) street and continues. They can call it what they want but what me, my wife and my kids heard was a freight train that lifted everything in its path and dropped them somewhere else. I am not sure if I have ever seen that kind of lift with straight line winds.
By the way...70-80mph winds don't add up either. I have been in 70-80 mph gusts and this was significantly more than that.
Just my perspective from the "front line" of the storm that went through last night.
Thanks.
Hey guys...
My house was right in the path of the "thunderstorm/tornado" and I was awake and just letting the dogs in the house when all I heard was a freight train and all my trees went horizontal and my house, which is a pretty good size house, shook like I have never felt before. It literally took the neighbors tree and impaled branches in the telephone pole next to my house. It also took my 12 foot wide by 28 foot long by 12 foot high metal pole building, lifted it into the air, spun it 180 degrees and threw it across the road 100 feet into a full size conversion van and then pushed the van into the Calumet Methodist Church. It totaled the van (I will try to post some pictures later). The wind pushed that full size conversion van over 20 feet into the church. By the way, the metal building weighs well over 1000 pounds...in fact, I think the shipping weight is closer to 2000 pounds than it is 1000. Anyway, it also lifted my kids trampoline and tossed it on to the roof of the church where it bounced off and landed on the ground next to the church. That wind also lifted my neighbors attached garage off its foundation and bowed the walls out almost 6 inches.
When I was smaller I went through a small tornado in lower SE Michigan and I can distinctly remember the sound and I will tell you this...it was the same sound. I am not sure what the official call will be in this storm, but if you start over in Calumet near the Chevy dealer, you can follow a distinct path of destruction that runs right through my back yard, behind the church, across US-41 and then apparently jumps over to Caledonia(sp?) street and continues. They can call it what they want but what me, my wife and my kids heard was a freight train that lifted everything in its path and dropped them somewhere else. I am not sure if I have ever seen that kind of lift with straight line winds.
By the way...70-80mph winds don't add up either. I have been in 70-80 mph gusts and this was significantly more than that.
Just my perspective from the "front line" of the storm that went through last night.
Thanks.
Just a guess, but that "spinning" sure sounds more like a tornado than a thunderstorm microburst! The typical microburst flattens trees, structures, etc. outward, radially, from the spot where it strikes the ground, while a tornado will leave debris evidence indicative of rotational winds.
I just got back into town yesterday and viewed the damage from Calumet Ave only, so I have not seen all that was done, but from what I saw it looked to be to be straight line wind damage associated with a micro burst. All the trees were knocked down in the same direction and the metal structure DGR talks about was also blown in that direction. With a tornado, you will have no symmetry to the damage, only a damage path.
The swirling that is talked about could have happened with small swirls in the straight line winds. Any tornado circulation is likely to be wider than this damage path was in the first place.
I also did not read any indication from the NWS that they thought it was a tornado and there would have been rotation evident in the parent storm that would have been picked up by radar.
Like I say, I have not had the chance to fully survey the damage yet, so I cannot say for 100% what it was.
By the way, damage from straight line winds can be much more extensive than from a weak tornado. It seems like folks always like to jump towards the tornado scenario rather than the straight line scenario. I guess tornado's are viewed as more dramatic and a bigger deal.
-John
The swirling that is talked about could have happened with small swirls in the straight line winds. Any tornado circulation is likely to be wider than this damage path was in the first place.
I also did not read any indication from the NWS that they thought it was a tornado and there would have been rotation evident in the parent storm that would have been picked up by radar.
Like I say, I have not had the chance to fully survey the damage yet, so I cannot say for 100% what it was.
By the way, damage from straight line winds can be much more extensive than from a weak tornado. It seems like folks always like to jump towards the tornado scenario rather than the straight line scenario. I guess tornado's are viewed as more dramatic and a bigger deal.
-John
dgr_calumet
New member
When you have a chance...
John,
Is there typically rotational energy associated with a micro-burst? Because, my garage was rotated 180 degrees before it hit the van...
Also, there is a pretty distinct damage path with this wind? Are micro-bursts typically "selective" with the damage?
The other thing...I will try to post some pictures of the trees behind my house...there was significant twisting damage or rotational fractures? Typical of micro-burst...
Not trying to start an argument because I know absolutely nothing about the topic except what I heard and saw. Just trying to figure out how a micro burst can have such a specific path of destruction such as this wind...
By the way, during the wind...my treesdid not just bend in one direction...they moved hard one way and then seemed to get "sucked" back in the other direction.
Again..I don't care what it is called I just am curious.
Thanks...
If you have any questions or need some other pictures stop by when you are in the area and I will show you the path.
John,
Is there typically rotational energy associated with a micro-burst? Because, my garage was rotated 180 degrees before it hit the van...
Also, there is a pretty distinct damage path with this wind? Are micro-bursts typically "selective" with the damage?
The other thing...I will try to post some pictures of the trees behind my house...there was significant twisting damage or rotational fractures? Typical of micro-burst...
Not trying to start an argument because I know absolutely nothing about the topic except what I heard and saw. Just trying to figure out how a micro burst can have such a specific path of destruction such as this wind...
By the way, during the wind...my treesdid not just bend in one direction...they moved hard one way and then seemed to get "sucked" back in the other direction.
Again..I don't care what it is called I just am curious.
Thanks...
If you have any questions or need some other pictures stop by when you are in the area and I will show you the path.
dgr_calumet-
Everything you describe would be pretty typical with a micro burst. Even though they are called "straight line winds" were will be turbulent eddy's that would cause the damage you describe and the swirling of the trees.
The rotation in a tornado would be on the scale of a city block at least, not a few dozen feet as is what you describe here.
A micro burst is also likely to cause damage in a pretty well defined area, much like a tornado would.
If it were a tornado that hit, the damage would have looked purely random. Some items tossed in one direction, some in another and others in another direction. The damage path would also have likely been a little wider, but not by much.
The roar you heard was due to the winds themselves. That "freight train" sound is not exclusive to tornadoes, but rather any time you have excessive wind speeds.
-John
Everything you describe would be pretty typical with a micro burst. Even though they are called "straight line winds" were will be turbulent eddy's that would cause the damage you describe and the swirling of the trees.
The rotation in a tornado would be on the scale of a city block at least, not a few dozen feet as is what you describe here.
A micro burst is also likely to cause damage in a pretty well defined area, much like a tornado would.
If it were a tornado that hit, the damage would have looked purely random. Some items tossed in one direction, some in another and others in another direction. The damage path would also have likely been a little wider, but not by much.
The roar you heard was due to the winds themselves. That "freight train" sound is not exclusive to tornadoes, but rather any time you have excessive wind speeds.
-John
While tornadoes do happen in the Arizona desert, they are pretty rare and usually quite weak.
Microbursts, on the other hand are much more common, causing far more damage in the Phoenix Metro area than tornadoes. There are typically several damaging microburst events each summer.
As a matter of fact, we have already experienced our first microburst damage of the year on Saturday, with the first monsoon season thunderstorm to strike the area after the record 118°F high temperature for the day:
From ABC15.com, Sunday July 3, 2011: Crews kept busy by Phoenix microburst.
I have also heard a microburst described as a large parcel of cool/cold air descending from a thunderstorm cell, which in calm wind conditions will yield a damage pattern much like the water splash seen from dropping a water-filled balloon.
With strong surface/boundary layer winds, the damage pattern may spread with the low level wind to resemble a water filled balloon dropped from a fast, low flying airplane, splayed out in the direction of the wind. The gusty, shifting surface winds typical near thunderstorm cells may indeed cause the kind of turbulent eddies that John mentioned.
Microbursts, on the other hand are much more common, causing far more damage in the Phoenix Metro area than tornadoes. There are typically several damaging microburst events each summer.
As a matter of fact, we have already experienced our first microburst damage of the year on Saturday, with the first monsoon season thunderstorm to strike the area after the record 118°F high temperature for the day:
From ABC15.com, Sunday July 3, 2011: Crews kept busy by Phoenix microburst.
Some definitions I have seen:
¹ (This probably explains why such microbursts are so common in the Phoenix metro area, with the low humidity contributing greatly to the evaporation!)
I have also heard a microburst described as a large parcel of cool/cold air descending from a thunderstorm cell, which in calm wind conditions will yield a damage pattern much like the water splash seen from dropping a water-filled balloon.
With strong surface/boundary layer winds, the damage pattern may spread with the low level wind to resemble a water filled balloon dropped from a fast, low flying airplane, splayed out in the direction of the wind. The gusty, shifting surface winds typical near thunderstorm cells may indeed cause the kind of turbulent eddies that John mentioned.
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dgr_calumet
New member
Thanks for the info...
John and frnash,
Thanks for the info...like I said before...I am not a weather expert so I have no idea and to tell you the truth...it doesn't really matter what it is called, all I know is that it caused quite a bit of damage to my property, my neighbors property and the church (and don't forget about the buildings behind the school that lost their roofs completely).
The most important thing about this storm is that NO ONE got hurt!!! It woke my kids and they were really scared (the dogs too!) but everyone came out of it without a scratch. It could have been much worse than just some trees, buildings and property damaged. Those things can be replaced...
Well...I have more clean-up to do. Thanks again for the weather lesson.
John and frnash,
Thanks for the info...like I said before...I am not a weather expert so I have no idea and to tell you the truth...it doesn't really matter what it is called, all I know is that it caused quite a bit of damage to my property, my neighbors property and the church (and don't forget about the buildings behind the school that lost their roofs completely).
The most important thing about this storm is that NO ONE got hurt!!! It woke my kids and they were really scared (the dogs too!) but everyone came out of it without a scratch. It could have been much worse than just some trees, buildings and property damaged. Those things can be replaced...
Well...I have more clean-up to do. Thanks again for the weather lesson.
Marquette NWS reports ...
From Marquette NWS: Damaging winds affect portions of the Keweenaw Peninsula.
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica](Click the above link for more storm damage photos, too!)
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From Marquette NWS: Damaging winds affect portions of the Keweenaw Peninsula.
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica](Click the above link for more storm damage photos, too!)
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The weather station on top of the school in Calumet recorded a wind speed of 78 mph. This was before the weather station was damaged by the storm and also before brunt of the storm hit.
It would have been neat to see what the actual winds were there as it is only about 200 yards from where the roof was blown off the old drill house.
Cams at the school also missed the roof coming off due to power outages with the township.
-John
It would have been neat to see what the actual winds were there as it is only about 200 yards from where the roof was blown off the old drill house.
Cams at the school also missed the roof coming off due to power outages with the township.
-John
