$10 Fee increase for Michigan Trail Pass next year

[ridindirty800]

In the area I ride the most, you can guarantee to get sticker checked at minimum one time. Sometimes multiple times in a weekend. The fine is $150. I will buy that permit.

I think you misunderstood me! I will not be going into michigan anymore from northern wi. I will just stay south of the border so I wont need the sticker. I would never try to ride in michigan or any other state without one as its not worth the hassle! If I go to the u.p I will buy sticker but that will be only if that is the only place you can ride.

 

[polarisrider1]

I think you misunderstood me! I will not be going into michigan anymore from northern wi. I will just stay south of the border so I wont need the sticker. I would never try to ride in michigan or any other state without one as its not worth the hassle! If I go to the u.p I will buy sticker but that will be only if that is the only place you can ride.

Misunderstanding each other in here is the number one issue amongst us, even with smiley faces. The ride to Mercer and the UP loop and back threw me. Didn't realize you would turn around at the border. Just wanted to let you know about the size of the fine. $150= 3yrs. of permits and some strudels from Krupps.

 

[polarisrider1]

X'2 riding from the cabin is the best! Nothin better than an early 50 mile loop then a nap! Come on up next winter and ride with polaris one or the snow monkey. We can both take you on a wicked 100 mile loop and almost never touch a marked trail. I will never pass on the chance to ride with someone local that knows the backroads. There is something to be said when you never pull a map out all day and end up at the back door of all the best eateries and watering holes we never knew were there.

We will do it again next yr., and drag Dave B. along. snow was a little thin but it worked. p.s. we barely touched anything of what I ride. But, we did cross some ( a hundred) trails that required the permits we had. I will work on minimizing that to.

 

[Winter Freak]

I think that raising it to 45 bucks is to much seeing as how they just raised it to 35. I will still ride in Mi thats cuz i live here. Yes its and extra ten bucks and it will piss me off. I mainly get mad because i think the funds are getting misused. I mean every year is different. They dont groom every day of the week from dec to april. There is always a thaw or something. So when you have a low snow year were does the extra money go???? I see new groomer tractors clubs get every year or two. Now maybe they figured out the price of renting then buying a maintanance package. Thats fine it may be cheaper or they may not have anyone able to work on them. But if there just buying for the heck of it thats b.s. Because them tractors should last them 10 yrs or more. All they basically breath is cold clean air no dirt. The money goes somewere but it always seems like the run out nomatter if its record sno fall or a very mild winter.

 

[russholio]

I think that raising it to 45 bucks is to much seeing as how they just raised it to 35. I will still ride in Mi thats cuz i live here. Yes its and extra ten bucks and it will piss me off. I mainly get mad because i think the funds are getting misused. I mean every year is different. They dont groom every day of the week from dec to april. There is always a thaw or something. So when you have a low snow year were does the extra money go???? I see new groomer tractors clubs get every year or two. Now maybe they figured out the price of renting then buying a maintanance package. Thats fine it may be cheaper or they may not have anyone able to work on them. But if there just buying for the heck of it thats b.s. Because them tractors should last them 10 yrs or more. All they basically breath is cold clean air no dirt. The money goes somewere but it always seems like the run out nomatter if its record sno fall or a very mild winter.

See post #126, made by John, on Page 6 of the "Will you still go???" thread for the answer to this.

 

[xsivhp]

How can MN have such well groomed trails and such a great trail system charge non residents only $15 - that is the deal of the century!!!

btw - mi trails are nice - when there isn't snow in wi or mn!!!

 

[xsivhp]

For most rural areas, this statement could not have been further from the truth than if you were standing in another galaxy while saying it Boon.

Who drives the groomers? Who maintains the trails in the preseason? Who is on the local search and rescue? All volunteer by the way.

In case you are stumbling for the answer on this one, it is the local business owners that benefit from the snowmobile trail system.

-John

In WI there are places that are not supporting their local clubs. I say boycott them. Nie people - but not supporting the sport a good part of their winter income is coming from - that is ignorant.

 

[Admin]

I think that raising it to 45 bucks is to much seeing as how they just raised it to 35. I will still ride in Mi thats cuz i live here. Yes its and extra ten bucks and it will piss me off. I mainly get mad because i think the funds are getting misused. I mean every year is different. They dont groom every day of the week from dec to april. There is always a thaw or something. So when you have a low snow year were does the extra money go???? I see new groomer tractors clubs get every year or two. Now maybe they figured out the price of renting then buying a maintanance package. Thats fine it may be cheaper or they may not have anyone able to work on them. But if there just buying for the heck of it thats b.s. Because them tractors should last them 10 yrs or more. All they basically breath is cold clean air no dirt. The money goes somewere but it always seems like the run out nomatter if its record sno fall or a very mild winter.

Looking from the outside in, I can see how you would feel this way, but become active in a club that maintains the trails, join and become active in the MSA and I can almost guarantee that you will see the money is not wasted. I used to think the exact thing until I got on the board of directors for our grooming operations and now see that not a penny is wasted. I have a feeling that the average snowmobiler has no clue how expensive it is to maintain the trails.

One of my main reasons for joining was to "get rid of the waste" and straighten the system out and boy did I learn a ton! I was the one that was "straightened out"! Rather than make assumptions, it is best to have all the true facts before you make up you mind.

-John

 

[Winter Freak]

Looking from the outside in, I can see how you would feel this way, but become active in a club that maintains the trails, join and become active in the MSA and I can almost guarantee that you will see the money is not wasted. I used to think the exact thing until I got on the board of directors for our grooming operations and now see that not a penny is wasted. I have a feeling that the average snowmobiler has no clue how expensive it is to maintain the trails.

One of my main reasons for joining was to "get rid of the waste" and straighten the system out and boy did I learn a ton! I was the one that was "straightened out"! Rather than make assumptions, it is best to have all the true facts before you make up you mind.

-John

I see your point, right now i have no extra time between college and snowmobiling and working 60 hours or so in the summer a week. Maybe once i get a full time job i will be able to join a club and help out. The biggest expence in running a groomer is probably the fuel if i had to guess. Mantanence is the next, because you dont have to pay an operator. I no tractors are not cheap, I grew up on a farm and a ton of my friends own farms. Just wondering what goes on in your club, how often do they buy new tractors??? Or do they lease?? What brand do they buy, case/Nholland, JD, or cat?? Just wondering because usually case are cheaper than JD. I just cant believe that upgrading tractors every two years if they do is money wise. Its like a vechicle the longer you keep it the cheaper it is. I know guys both that buy tractors and keep them and the next guy upgrades new every year or two. But my point is these tractors should last for at least 15 yrs, because they dont get beat on, they are just towing a sno drag in clean air. m2cents.

 

[Admin]

I see your point, right now i have no extra time between college and snowmobiling and working 60 hours or so in the summer a week. Maybe once i get a full time job i will be able to join a club and help out. The biggest expence in running a groomer is probably the fuel if i had to guess. Mantanence is the next, because you dont have to pay an operator. I no tractors are not cheap, I grew up on a farm and a ton of my friends own farms. Just wondering what goes on in your club, how often do they buy new tractors??? Or do they lease?? What brand do they buy, case/Nholland, JD, or cat?? Just wondering because usually case are cheaper than JD. I just cant believe that upgrading tractors every two years if they do is money wise. Its like a vechicle the longer you keep it the cheaper it is. I know guys both that buy tractors and keep them and the next guy upgrades new every year or two. But my point is these tractors should last for at least 15 yrs, because they dont get beat on, they are just towing a sno drag in clean air. m2cents.

We do pay our operators and so do the majority of grooming entities, very few true all volunteer orgs. are left. We do not purchase the grooming equipment, the state does. We put in for a groomer and hope we get one. We have five in our fleet and this year groomed over 30,000 miles that is 6000 miles per groomer per season. They do not get beat on, but do work very hard. We are actually getting away from the converted farm tractors (New Holland, John Deere) as we have found that they cannot hold up to the rigors of grooming as well as we want. We find the machines that are purpose built for grooming in the snow (Piston Bully) hold up the best to the rigors of grooming. You would think that just running in the snow with no dust would not be hard on them, but almost all of our operators are heavy equipment operators in the warm months and some are previous farmers and all say trail grooming is way harder on the machines than farming. Surprised the heck out of me.

As far as replacement. It seems like our groomers can go around 4-5 seasons before needing replacement. That is 24-30K miles. Actually we go more by hours on the machine than miles. Main issues with things like the New Holland were transmission. Just to replace a clutch pack you are talking over 6000 dollars!

-John

 

[Winter Freak]

We do pay our operators and so do the majority of grooming entities, very few true all volunteer orgs. are left. We do not purchase the grooming equipment, the state does. We put in for a groomer and hope we get one. We have five in our fleet and this year groomed over 30,000 miles that is 6000 miles per groomer per season. They do not get beat on, but do work very hard. We are actually getting away from the converted farm tractors (New Holland, John Deere) as we have found that they cannot hold up to the rigors of grooming as well as we want. We find the machines that are purpose built for grooming in the snow (Piston Bully) hold up the best to the rigors of grooming. You would think that just running in the snow with no dust would not be hard on them, but almost all of our operators are heavy equipment operators in the warm months and some are previous farmers and all say trail grooming is way harder on the machines than farming. Surprised the heck out of me.

As far as replacement. It seems like our groomers can go around 4-5 seasons before needing replacement. That is 24-30K miles. Actually we go more by hours on the machine than miles. Main issues with things like the New Holland were transmission. Just to replace a clutch pack you are talking over 6000 dollars!

-John

I agree with you there that the clubs may not purchase the groomers. The state does so it money comes from somewere. Anyway in the lower were i ride its all volunteer operators. Something else to look at cost wize now are that all the diesels in 011 have to run eurea or reburn the exahuast. Deere reburns and case burns exhaust fuel. (this just adds cost), good to see your looking into better equipment. As far as working harder grooming i would depate that,but ill thats their opinion and i have mine so.... all in all i think that this will detour away families and such. I know guys that ride rivers and never touch a trail yet they still need to buy one. There are hundreds of sleds on this river on a good weekend in the lower. Ever since gas went up there have been less people going up north and when there is good snow and ice this river comes alive. Its crazy at times, and you can put on 250 miles no problem going from resturant to bar ect. SO i guess will see how many people this 45 bucks detours. But i would have to say if gas stays at 4 a gallon thats going to be bigger than the 10 increase in trail permits. Say you put 350-400 miles on in a weekend now thats 400 bucks in fuel,not counting oil,gas is truck,or a place to stay. I have a place to stay so room and board is free. Pretty soon its a 600 dollars weekend for one person, now what would it cost for a family of 4 with half them miles....... Gas will be the biggest decider in sled traffic this year in my opinion. I no guys that are making 25 bucks an hour and spend about 200 bucks a week in gas right now thats 140 for work and 60 on weekend and they work 410s. Thats a 1/4 of there pay to gas add everything else up... and it may be a bad sled year. Not trying to be a downer but thats the truth!

 

[Admin]

I've never debated the ideas of the $10 increase having an impact on snowmobile tourism to the state and agree that an increase in gas prices can have a much larger effect on travel to the UP to ride than the trail permit fee increase.

As for paying the operators, I have seen the data of how many grant sponsors pay them and it is a large percentage. I was actually surprised at that as I thought we were one of the only ones, but turns out there are only one or two in the UP that don't pay (and they are planning to switch to paying their soon) and low numbers in the lower that don't too. All of my statements are based on facts I know, not assumptions I am making.

One of the big reasons why we have to pay our groomers is that we have 4-5 groomers going out twice a day to groom over 200 miles of trail. That is 8-10, 8 hour shifts per day. Plus all the daily maintanence that needs to be done. Pretty hard to find that amount of volunteers with our small population base. All of our board members are volunteers though.

-John

 

[jr37]

Last night at our county snowmobile council meeting, it was announced that Michigan was going to a $45 trail fee. There was a bunch of groaning, but I didn't hear anyone say that they wouldn't go. I think for the most part that people don't like the increases, but when it comes right down to it, they will pay to play.

 

[yamadooed]

$10 dollar increase is not much... Would that be enough to sway me from not going there??? Nah I'm sure I'll go anyway just to dump my wheelbarrow of cash... Unfortunately looks as I can only afford to bring one wheelbarrow next year... So that means I hafta empty out my other wheelbarrows in Wisconney dang the luck...

 

[Snowdee]

First, I can fully appreciate the thought of those who can't justify the increase for one trip to MI. My issue is with those who feel the need to reiterate this fact multiple times and have the audacity to berate those with differing opinions. I also have an issue with Nic. Buying a single watercraft permit, then placing one on the left side of 2 watercraft?? Will take the chance of getting caught without a MI trail sticker if she does happen to come to MI? I hope you don't have kids learning how to violate by your example. Hey, I need some beer....The price went up, so I'll buy 6 and shoplift the other 6. Dispicible....

 

[Jesse9131]

Way to much $$$$!!!!!!!

For all you pinheads out there who think it's worth it, it's not! Our family has 4 sleds that's a cost of $180 before the snow even falls. It's losers like you that have turned this State into a over taxed welfare recipient paradise.

We ride mostly private land and 7 miles to grab a bite to eat occasionally you can be sure that will be ending. And the restaurants we spent money at will have to make up that loss on you.

And don't give me that garbage about tractor costs and grooming costs. In Colorado its $30.25 a trail pass(same price for non-residents) and sorry to burst everybody's bubble but its almost twice as good as our riding(due to mountain range riding). And when I rode there it was mid April. I'm pretty sure tractors and fuel isn't more expensive than here so why the added cost? It's the same reason taxes go up groomers think they need new tractors every yr. and that they have to hire licensed drivers and give them full pensions when plenty of experienced operators would donate their time.

-Jesse

 

[Jesse9131]

I've never debated the ideas of the $10 increase having an impact on snowmobile tourism to the state and agree that an increase in gas prices can have a much larger effect on travel to the UP to ride than the trail permit fee increase.

As for paying the operators, I have seen the data of how many grant sponsors pay them and it is a large percentage. I was actually surprised at that as I thought we were one of the only ones, but turns out there are only one or two in the UP that don't pay (and they are planning to switch to paying their soon) and low numbers in the lower that don't too. All of my statements are based on facts I know, not assumptions I am making.

One of the big reasons why we have to pay our groomers is that we have 4-5 groomers going out twice a day to groom over 200 miles of trail. That is 8-10, 8 hour shifts per day. Plus all the daily maintanence that needs to be done. Pretty hard to find that amount of volunteers with our small population base. All of our board members are volunteers though.

-John

So why is it $30.25 for a trail pass in Colorado even for non-residents? They have far better riding there than here and I'm sure gas and tractor cost isn't more there.

The way I see it is $10 more to ride bumpy trails 5 out of 7 days a week.

 

[Jesse9131]

Misunderstanding each other in here is the number one issue amongst us, even with smiley faces. The ride to Mercer and the UP loop and back threw me. Didn't realize you would turn around at the border. Just wanted to let you know about the size of the fine. $150= 3yrs. of permits and some strudels from Krupps.

That's another thing that pisses me off it was a 100 fine not to long ago.

 

[Deleted member 10829]

Jesse9131,

I see this is your 3rd post. You better tone it down just a little bit. Pinheads and losers you call us? Not to mention you aren't making much sense. I don't get how someone buying a trail pass turns a state into an overtaxed welfare state. The trails in the UP are almost always good in recent years, way better than say even 10 years ago. I think the $45 is worth it but I respect your opinion that it isn't, and my advice to you is stay home or go to Colorado.

I've never seen a club that gets a new tractor every year. Join a club and see what it takes! How many hours have you volunteered this year to help the sport?

 

[Hoosier]

For all you pinheads out there who think it's worth it, it's not! Our family has 4 sleds that's a cost of $180 before the snow even falls. It's losers like you that have turned this State into a over taxed welfare recipient paradise.

We ride mostly private land and 7 miles to grab a bite to eat occasionally you can be sure that will be ending. And the restaurants we spent money at will have to make up that loss on you.

And don't give me that garbage about tractor costs and grooming costs. In Colorado its $30.25 a trail pass(same price for non-residents) and sorry to burst everybody's bubble but its almost twice as good as our riding(due to mountain range riding). And when I rode there it was mid April. I'm pretty sure tractors and fuel isn't more expensive than here so why the added cost? It's the same reason taxes go up groomers think they need new tractors every yr. and that they have to hire licensed drivers and give them full pensions when plenty of experienced operators would donate their time.

-Jesse

Jesse,

I think you should take this up issue with the MSA. When you do, please report back on details regarding the pension program for the groomer operators. I can't see how you can compare riding in Colorado with Michigan, but I suspect you are just trying to stir something up.