Anybody know if sales of MI snomo trail permits were up or down? I do know there was a huge decrease in the $45 MI trail permit sales for the previous season but super low snow season. Did MI increase trail permit numbers by what % over a a very bad previous season. Are we gaining or losing ground keeping in mind how bad the numbers were?
Anybody Know MI Snomo Trail Permit Sales Up or Down?
- Thread starter whitedust
- Start date
Wasn't last year the first year of the $45 fee? In any case, 2011-12 permit sales were 124,287 and 2012-13 sales were 136,033, a net gain of 11,746 or almost 1.2 million dollars for MI DNR if the fee jumped from $35 to $45.
The 2011-12 was a pretty poor year for MI snow state wide and last year got off to a very slow start. It will be interesting to see what an "average" snow season would produce.
I also would like to see something along the lines of a 3 day permit to try and capture more of the state line jumpers from N. WI. I have heard that there is at least a bit of talking on that idea now.
-John
The 2011-12 was a pretty poor year for MI snow state wide and last year got off to a very slow start. It will be interesting to see what an "average" snow season would produce.
I also would like to see something along the lines of a 3 day permit to try and capture more of the state line jumpers from N. WI. I have heard that there is at least a bit of talking on that idea now.
-John
I think this past season was the 2nd season of the $45 MI trail permit & second time my wife asked $45 for what as she rode back in the $25 or less MI Trail permit days. I remember a thread someone posted here that caused great debate that the MI trail pemit sales were down 25% or so & the debate continued including price & low snow condition discussions. Maybe the price went up $35 to $45 I don't remember as I just pay it & ride well worth the money to me but wondered if MI sales increased after the price increases. I also agree that a 3 day permit is necessary to expand the UPMI market should snow fall thru out the midwest. There are many riders I know that refused to pay the MI $45 trail permit fee & stayed in WI last year. So this year I'm riding with people that will buy both MI & WI trail permits to enjoy both states & to heck with the trail permit costs.
I do agree a say, three day pass for $10.00 would be a good revenue maker for Michigan.
I know many people that stayed in northern Wisconsin last year. To avoid the permit cost. For me, two sleds. $90.00 really seems like a lot to pay. I think also a second sled should be half price at least. Like Wisconsin state park passes for autos. Would make more sense.
Ya, if you can spend $8-10k on a sled, $45.00 shouldn't break ya, but it's the point of it.
Already big cost if paying for hotel and food, drink, etc.
Two years ago, went to Munising in late December. Had hotel, food, travel, two trail passes, and a simple mistake cost me another $125.00 for trespassing. Became a $600.00 weekend pretty quick. Then on top of that, my jobs kept me local the rest of the year. Didn't even get to go back. Three day pass would have been nice.
But to answer your question, sorry, I don't know the answer about sales up or down.
I know many people that stayed in northern Wisconsin last year. To avoid the permit cost. For me, two sleds. $90.00 really seems like a lot to pay. I think also a second sled should be half price at least. Like Wisconsin state park passes for autos. Would make more sense.
Ya, if you can spend $8-10k on a sled, $45.00 shouldn't break ya, but it's the point of it.
Already big cost if paying for hotel and food, drink, etc.
Two years ago, went to Munising in late December. Had hotel, food, travel, two trail passes, and a simple mistake cost me another $125.00 for trespassing. Became a $600.00 weekend pretty quick. Then on top of that, my jobs kept me local the rest of the year. Didn't even get to go back. Three day pass would have been nice.
But to answer your question, sorry, I don't know the answer about sales up or down.
polarisrider1
New member
Maybe a 3 day pass for $20 would work. azandy, keep in mind all those other expenses of the trip do not enhance the trails. Michigan could add to there hotel tax to everyone. So much goes for trails but then that is not fair at all for those who don't snowmobile. The way they have it is about the best it can get as a pay to play tax. But I would be for a 3 day pass. That is about all I ride in MI anyways and I live here. Now the trail system just lost money by having me do that. So they play the averages. I will donate the $45 to keep Ricky on his flat topped trails and out of the bush eh!? Let's hear some Really good ideas on how to pay for flat trails.
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polarismike
Member
According to Michigan Snowmobile News Magazine,
2011-12 season. 124,287
2012-13 season. 136,033
2011-12 season. 124,287
2012-13 season. 136,033
So doing the math in may head between a 9-10% increase but reduced 25% the previous year we have not even come close to making up the loss since the price increases. Yes we had some low snow years but is that really what is going on?
I think it is pretty fair to say that there are many variables that determine the amount of trail permits being sold. That is why I believe that you need several years worth of data before you can start to draw any conclusions as to what kind of an impact one of the variables is having.
2011-12 was a very poor snow year for just about all of MI. Remember, there is more to MI than the UP LES belts.
-John
2011-12 was a very poor snow year for just about all of MI. Remember, there is more to MI than the UP LES belts.
-John
When it comes to fee's, use tax or what ever you want to call them nobody wants to pay more than we have to or perceive as being fair, but like most things our sport is a pay-to-play activity. In the past I used to order my trail pass directly from the MSA (so they get the sales fee) in the preseason so I would have it and crossing the border was not an issue but I tend to wait as my number of trips are down. Michigan DNR does do a day pass for the ORV trails so that is possible for snow or they could do like Wisconsin and let you register as a non-resident and offer you a 2 year pass (maybe at a slight discount ???)... I do feel that if they offered a day use pass that the overall revenue would drop because most people like myself would only pay the days we are riding in the state.
I think it is pretty fair to say that there are many variables that determine the amount of trail permits being sold. That is why I believe that you need several years worth of data before you can start to draw any conclusions as to what kind of an impact one of the variables is having.
2011-12 was a very poor snow year for just about all of MI. Remember, there is more to MI than the UP LES belts.
-John
Due to my marketing/sales background we would get hammered if we did not meet or exceed our numbers & rightly so since the entire budget dovetailed to or success or lack of it which could casue layoffs in all areas of the corporation. Yes the bleeding has stopped but sale of permits as an over all market still is not growing at this point in time & concerns me. I always listen to the voice of the customer ask the customer why your not buying they were always happy to say what they thought was wrong lack of budget money, need new products, better mousetrap offered whatever. We would share feed back so product corrections could be made to grow the market. In this case I think permit price for multiple family sleds is just too much of a drain on their vacation budget so wait & see how the snowcover evolves. Northern WI riders are getting more difficult to convince to spend $45 for a MI trail permit for a breif ride across the border & I had no problem convincing them to spend $25 for a MI permit for 1 day. I'm done riding with these guys in MI they won't budge on the costs of the MI permit. To me something has to be done quickly to offer a weekend low cost permit the market is screaming for it & is dug in on the issue. Just saying & sharing 1st hand conversations on the matter with Wi riders.
xsledder
Active member
So, does anyone know if WI out-of-state permits are up, down, or no change? I would assume the bad snow would have the same effect on them.
Well, we both agree that a day or multi-day trail permit at a reduced cost would be beneficial in trying to capture back any of the lost sales from riders that primarily ride N. WI and jump into the UP for short periods of time.
I guess I just like to take a more scientific approach when trying to determine the exact causes for any change in permit sales, rather than jump to conclusions.
-John
Can't compare the WI & MI trail permit sales as apples & oranges comparsion too many loop holes in WI. IL buds all register their sleds in WI beat the need for a WI trail permits which you can NOT do in MI. Also WI much bigger snow area than WI border with UPMI. Northern WI as well as UPMI always gets snow sooner or later & storm tracks can lay snow down anywhere in WI so southern WI & IL riders are snow seekers go to the WI snow & much closer to home. Trips to the UPMI are planned & scheduled but I can't get them to comitt to UP when they know Vilas & Forest county,WI will come together sooner or later....just won't pay $45 to see UP trees. $25 was no problem I could convince them for a day or 2 ride 1 bud a half a day had no problem with MI $25.
Yes we both very much agree it would be very beneficial in trying to capture any of the lost sales from riders that primarily ride N. WI and jump into the UP for short periods of time. Heck Yes!!
A long term scientific approach to me is necessary too but sometimes you need to take action quickly with the information you have at hand to stop the bleeding expand the border snomo biz now they need all the help they can get. I have heard sooooo much complaining about the all or nothing $45 MI trail permit costs that I just say ok we will stay in WI we have plenty of trails here. Just was not that way before MI increased the price. I have rides planned this year with buds that are willing to buy MI permits but that number is so much smaller than in the past.
Yes we both very much agree it would be very beneficial in trying to capture any of the lost sales from riders that primarily ride N. WI and jump into the UP for short periods of time. Heck Yes!!
A long term scientific approach to me is necessary too but sometimes you need to take action quickly with the information you have at hand to stop the bleeding expand the border snomo biz now they need all the help they can get. I have heard sooooo much complaining about the all or nothing $45 MI trail permit costs that I just say ok we will stay in WI we have plenty of trails here. Just was not that way before MI increased the price. I have rides planned this year with buds that are willing to buy MI permits but that number is so much smaller than in the past.
I agree that sooner would be better than later too. I think that your perspective on the scale of the issue might be magnified because of where you live and do most of your riding. It certainly is an issue that needs to be looked into and I have been in contact with my state senator and some of the DNR about it. Not sure if anything is currently being done.
It sure would be interesting to know the exact facts as to how many trail permits are being sold to folks border hopping between the UP and N. WI and how a multi-day pass would impact things.
-John
My world is maybe 10 -15 WI riders that won't pay the $45 MI permit to cross over to UPMI then that expands out to their buds & so on. I had PMs last year from other JD members that live in Vilas WI that had the same problem with their buds & invited me to ride with them. It seems like it should not be a problem but maybe it is because everything costs more & the riders with multiple sleds just won't spend the bucks on MI permits if they can avoid it & stay in WI. Thank you for your efforts on this matter & I hope MI offers a discounted 2-3 day trail permit in the near future!
Make it $20 for 3 days. $45 is too high for one weekend. We have quite a few sleds in one of the groups I ride with that only comes out one weekend per year around New Years (the older back-up sleds, all stored at cabins near Phelps). All of these got MI permits in the past. None of them got them last year - they all just stayed in Wisconsin instead.