Military Hill Issue AGAIN!

[snobuilder]

I will stay off a it with my 121"er.

 

[Skylar]

Went past the hills today around 9 am, no fresh tracks on any of the hills.

 

[scottiking]

I went by it Wednesday afternoon and couldn't see any tracks at all not even old ones!
Must of drifted over covering any evidence of any tracks!
Scottiking

 

[snobuilder]

just sayin.....all i asked for was proof of destruction...so far, 2 eye witnesses say no damage.

I ask someone,...ANYONE ...to back there claims up of....<enough devastation< to close a trail system and ruin the >lives< of UP tourism based >business ppl< once the snow melts, AND THE GROUND THAWS,...and vegetation REFUSES to grow there.

you post here....PLEASE.....promise right now that you will PUT pics UP HERE so ALL can see the proof of destruction that some say could SHUT DOWN MAJOR >MI< HIGHWAYS.

 

[Skylar]

By the way, just because I have not seen fresh tracks the last two Sundays, does not mean it does not happen. I have seen those hills with tracks everywhere on them. But, the fence up top has helped, I hope.

 

[snobuilder]

By the way, just because I have not seen fresh tracks the last two Sundays, does not mean it does not happen. I have seen those hills with tracks everywhere on them. But, the fence up top has helped, I hope.

so what you sayin? tracks in snow equal destruction?...potential highway closings?

 

[Skylar]

Those hills need vegetation on them to prevent erosion. When snowmobilers ride over this vegetation, ripping them from the ground, it is easier for the soil to wash out down the hill when it rains. It could rain hard enough for the whole hill to slide, taking the road with it.

 

[snobuilder]

go pull some weeds in your yard for me....you can't...the ground is frozen...we have all seen snirty trails in many locations and come spring they turn out to be the greenest patches in the field....Stop letting the self-proclaimed environmentalistst own you...they is Full-of-it, no proof of fact, catered to bunch of control freaks ever to inhabit the earth....meanwhile i will keep an eye on the news next rainy day in the UP waiting to hear about a highway closure due to sledders tearin it up...

 

[Skylar]

go pull some weeds in your yard for me....you can't...the ground is frozen...we have all seen snirty trails in many locations and come spring they turn out to be the greenest patches in the field....Stop letting the self-proclaimed environmentalistst own you...they is Full-of-it, no proof of fact, catered to bunch of control freaks ever to inhabit the earth....meanwhile i will keep an eye on the news next rainy day in the UP waiting to hear about a highway closure due to sledders tearin it up...

How about I go out in my yard with my 2.4" track on my sled, or a sled with 144 1.125 studs in it, yep, I will tear out all kinds of roots.

Have you ever seen these hills in the summer? Have you noticed the lack of vegetation on the hill right beneath the fence, but on the 2nd, and 3rd hill, heading up the hill, those hills have all kinds of vegetation growing on them? Have you noticed on the 2nd and 3rd hills the LACK of wash outs in those hills, unlike the hill directly under the fence?

 

[jr37]

If there is a fence up and signs posted, and someone still finds ways to justify that it is ok to run up and down the hill, you will not change their mind. To me this is really simple, a fence and signs mean keep out. It does not matter if you believe it does damage or not, stay off the hill.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

go pull some weeds in your yard for me....you can't...the ground is frozen...

Underneath the snow the ground usually isn't frozen. I was on the tractor today and opened up a road and under 3 foot of snow was water and mud, could very easily pull up weeds, in fact the back tires dug up plenty of grass.

 

[russholio]

If there is a fence up and signs posted, and someone still finds ways to justify that it is ok to run up and down the hill, you will not change their mind. To me this is really simple, a fence and signs mean keep out. It does not matter if you believe it does damage or not, stay off the hill.

Kinda what I was thinking, too. It's fine to not believe or to dispute their reasons for keeping sleds out. But taking the attitude of "I'm gonna do what I want to do where I want to do it, and you can't stop me" sure isn't going to change their minds. And most importantly, it's not going to cast sledders in a favorable light to the non-sledding public. All it will do is reinforce the beliefs of those who think we're a bunch of knuckle-draggers.

 

[snobuilder]

Kinda what I was thinking, too. It's fine to not believe or to dispute their reasons for keeping sleds out. But taking the attitude of "I'm gonna do what I want to do where I want to do it, and you can't stop me" sure isn't going to change their minds. And most importantly, it's not going to cast sledders in a favorable light to the non-sledding public. All it will do is reinforce the beliefs of those who think we're a bunch of knuckle-draggers.

Not sure why you guys think it is OK to disobey signs and fences.
I ride trails.

 

[russholio]

Not sure why you guys think it is OK to disobey signs and fences.
I ride trails.

I think you completely misread what I was saying. And I'm a trail rider too, so I really have no horse in this race other than ALL snowmobilers get a bad name because of the actions of a few morons.

 

[snobuilder]

I think you completely misread what I was saying. And I'm a trail rider too, so I really have no horse in this race other than ALL snowmobilers get a bad name because of the actions of a few morons.

I know how you feel....simply asking for evidence of lasting damage gets a person slammed by the anti-sledders and fellow sledders alike.

That's why the tactics of the anti-engine crowd works so well...they can take mole hills and turn them into mountains

 

[kwikgren]

It's fine to not believe or to dispute their reasons for keeping sleds out.

It's also easy and self-serving to deny the truth. Having worked on the land and in the forests of the Upper Peninsula for the past 35 years, I have an intimate knowledge and understanding of the soils and landscapes of the region, including the area along the Ontonagon River in the vicinity of Military Hill. If you dig a 6 foot deep hole up there you will find evidence of rotational slumping and landslide including buried trees and forest debris. It is one of the most active and susceptible landscapes in the U.P., and the process of land movement has been going on long before people even existed up here and is ongoing. It is wise to try to protect this area as much as possible, because the danger of triggering or accelerating these natural processes is very real.

Please spare me the global warming jokes, but just because the climate of the earth is naturally changing and has been for a long time before man doesn't mean that we don't have a profound impact on our environment. Some great forests that have been clear cut have never grown back because the soils eroded and the microclimate changed. Areas that once had great agriculture are now deserts because the natural balance was irreversibly upset. The jokes aren't so funny if you find yourself without food or any way to get it. I know it's a hard opinion to believe, but I for one am appreciative and thankful for the security and comfort that we currently enjoy in this country, and try not to take it for granted.

Public lands need to be managed for the overall good, not special interests, which I think requires a little compromise on both sides of the issue here.

Also, until all land ownership is nationalized in the United States of America, people still have the right to own and control private property in this country. Some of these rights are compromised by laws that provide tax breaks or are sold or leased out in the form of easements. If people refuse to minimize their impact, and respect landowner's wishes, don't be too surprised if more and more private land owners start exercising their rights.

 

[russholio]

It's also easy and self-serving to deny the truth. Having worked on the land and in the forests of the Upper Peninsula for the past 35 years, I have an intimate knowledge and understanding of the soils and landscapes of the region, including the area along the Ontonagon River in the vicinity of Military Hill. If you dig a 6 foot deep hole up there you will find evidence of rotational slumping and landslide including buried trees and forest debris. It is one of the most active and susceptible landscapes in the U.P., and the process of land movement has been going on long before people even existed up here and is ongoing. It is wise to try to protect this area as much as possible, because the danger of triggering or accelerating these natural processes is very real.

Please spare me the global warming jokes, but just because the climate of the earth is naturally changing and has been for a long time before man doesn't mean that we don't have a profound impact on our environment. Some great forests that have been clear cut have never grown back because the soils eroded and the microclimate changed. Areas that once had great agriculture are now deserts because the natural balance was irreversibly upset. The jokes aren't so funny if you find yourself without food or any way to get it. I know it's a hard opinion to believe, but I for one am appreciative and thankful for the security and comfort that we currently enjoy in this country, and try not to take it for granted.

Public lands need to be managed for the overall good, not special interests, which I think requires a little compromise on both sides of the issue here.

Also, until all land ownership is nationalized in the United States of America, people still have the right to own and control private property in this country. Some of these rights are compromised by laws that provide tax breaks or are sold or leased out in the form of easements. If people refuse to minimize their impact, and respect landowner's wishes, don't be too surprised if more and more private land owners start exercising their rights.

I'm not say I disagree with you or that I personally feel the need to dispute. Maybe "dispute" is the wrong word and "question" would be better. What I'm saying is, for somebody who does question the reason(s) for closing the land to sleds, there is a right way and a wrong way to voice their opinion. To me, disregarding the signs and riding there anyhow is not the right way.

Personally, I'm a trail rider and I'm content with that. There are so many miles of trails for me to ride that I've never felt that I was so lacking that I had to venture into an area that says "no snowmobiles". If somebody puts up a sign that says they don't want me there, then I don't go; it's just that simple. I guess maybe some would consider that being a sheep. Maybe it is, I don't know. But I do know that it's less likely to tick off any landowners or the DNR.

 

[xcr440]

I don't know this spot, nor have I ever been there. Just two comments:

With all the early lake effect snow the UP gets, its probably much more difficult for the ground to freeze unlike most other areas of the midwest.

I want to start carrying signs around that I can stick in tracks that go past these signs and fences, (Obviously they aren't just in the UP) that say "Don't be this JackAss, stay on the trail!"

 

[Team Elkhorn]

Again, IMO the sport is killing itself. More times than I can count, I've seen guys come on here asking, "I've just purchased a new long track sled. I'm really excited! Where can I ride it?" More times than not the response is, "Get educated and figure it out yourself." Thats like NOT printing trail maps or marking the trails and being surprised when people wander around where they're not supposed to. Its pizzing people off and setting the sport up to fail.
While I'm certainly not against legally boondocking up north, heck it saves traffic on the trails. I am horrified when the local neighborhood kids that have been buzzing up and down my road on their ZRs and XCRs, recently graduated to older, piped, Ms and RMKs. I have no idea where they think they're going to be riding those in SE Wisconsin? Its long past the point of blaming the tree huggers, and its time for us to be proactive about saving the sport.

 

[Hoosier]

It's also easy and self-serving to deny the truth. Having worked on the land and in the forests of the Upper Peninsula for the past 35 years, I have an intimate knowledge and understanding of the soils and landscapes of the region, including the area along the Ontonagon River in the vicinity of Military Hill. If you dig a 6 foot deep hole up there you will find evidence of rotational slumping and landslide including buried trees and forest debris. It is one of the most active and susceptible landscapes in the U.P., and the process of land movement has been going on long before people even existed up here and is ongoing. It is wise to try to protect this area as much as possible, because the danger of triggering or accelerating these natural processes is very real.

Please spare me the global warming jokes, but just because the climate of the earth is naturally changing and has been for a long time before man doesn't mean that we don't have a profound impact on our environment. Some great forests that have been clear cut have never grown back because the soils eroded and the microclimate changed. Areas that once had great agriculture are now deserts because the natural balance was irreversibly upset. The jokes aren't so funny if you find yourself without food or any way to get it. I know it's a hard opinion to believe, but I for one am appreciative and thankful for the security and comfort that we currently enjoy in this country, and try not to take it for granted.

Public lands need to be managed for the overall good, not special interests, which I think requires a little compromise on both sides of the issue here.

Also, until all land ownership is nationalized in the United States of America, people still have the right to own and control private property in this country. Some of these rights are compromised by laws that provide tax breaks or are sold or leased out in the form of easements. If people refuse to minimize their impact, and respect landowner's wishes, don't be too surprised if more and more private land owners start exercising their rights.

Thanks for posting on here. Good to get someone else's perspective. If you are concerned with the management of public lands, you may want to get in contact with the Blue Ribbon Coalition. That is what they specialize in advocating for.