Reviews of renegade backcountry from the artic north

[Magnumb]

I've also been watching his vidoes for several years now and he puts out some good footage including Hunting for moose, fishing, breaking trail, visits old mines and cabins, getting stranded and alot of his riding is solo.

He was on 2S sleds then switched to 4S because he puts on lots of miles and didnt want to rebuild as often. With him riding consistently in 20 to 30 below weather he puts alot of stress on his sleds and they show thier weaknesses quick.

I don;t think it matters what sled he is reviewing as he just wants a sled that he can enjoy and not have to worry about leaving him strandand in the wilderness or at the shop. It looks like he is really starting to enjoy riding again with his new purchase.

 

[momoney2123]

Got to admit, you crossfire owners do love your sleds...I know of 2 others that say nothing has come along to replace it yet. Hats off to Cat for building dependable 2 stroke power, albeit a Suzuki...the design was at least overseen by Cat and so far the new c-tec is looking good as well.
I hope my Poo 800HO shows itself to have cured the 800 blow-up blues of the past....LOL...just love the fuel mileage...on par with my Yammie 4 strokes.... and the ski hoisting power is a hoot.

It has been reliable for close to 4000 miles, but my dealer actually told me to think about new pistons at this point based on the past track record of the Poo 8's.

Why would you rebuild an engine that is under warranty..especially when you have a spare backup.

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Gobs of low end torque for the Vector 1050 and smooth arm stretching linear pull to 110mph on the Apex coupled with power steering lets you think your way through the twisties.....REMEMBER...I said TRAIL sled like 95% of us sledders buy our machines for.
If you do nothing but ride on Saturday afternoons....there might be a better rear skid out there but EVERYONE whines in crappy conditions so how good does the rear skid need to be?
I rode the latest, greatest buzzy 2 stroke 800 this year and it was good fun, but running the PS Apex up and down UP trail 15, 118, 107, etc. was my best memory of this season....that sled is a Ferrari my friend....LOL....I hate RR grades for more than 10 minutes at a time but the Apex even makes that boring riding style seem fun.

Anyone who is in the racing seen knows a vector will NEVER touch 110 in any kind of snow, and even glare ice . Maybe on the dream meter, but not a gps.

I find bumpy trails fun to be honest

 

[Magnumb]

His mileage

01-02 4869
02-03 3949
03-04 4529
04-05 5338
05-06 2733
06-07 6976
07-08 3980
08-09 4953
09-10 6809
10-11 3321
11-12 4389
12-13 3828
13-14 2851

 

[momoney2123]

I've also been watching his vidoes for several years now and he puts out some good footage including Hunting for moose, fishing, breaking trail, visits old mines and cabins, getting stranded and alot of his riding is solo.

He was on 2S sleds then switched to 4S because he puts on lots of miles and didnt want to rebuild as often. With him riding consistently in 20 to 30 below weather he puts alot of stress on his sleds and they show thier weaknesses quick.

I don;t think it matters what sled he is reviewing as he just wants a sled that he can enjoy and not have to worry about leaving him strandand in the wilderness or at the shop. It looks like he is really starting to enjoy riding again with his new purchase.

I agree videos are entertaining. He is very hard on equipment and isnt the most mechanically inclined person, so if it makes it thru his beating you kno you have a quality product.

The things he hit with that sled already is nice to see. Love reading all the fragile front end comments on the doo. He smoked that one rock with his ski and thru him off. Thought for sure he bent something...

 

[snobuilder]

Why would you rebuild an engine that is under warranty..especially when you have a spare backup.

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Anyone who is in the racing seen knows a vector will NEVER touch 110 in any kind of snow, and even glare ice . Maybe on the dream meter, but not a gps.

I find bumpy trails fun to be honest

I found bumpy trails to be more fun on the AXYS than my Nytro but all sleds have trade offs....Poo is buzzy....4 stroke Yams are electric motor smooth...trade-off right there.

won't rebuild the 800 ...just conveyed what the mechanic said... and I said the APEX goes to 110 easily....I think you were skimming instead a reading....LOL

 

[lenny]

ezra, your way off base on yamaha 4s sled. I like you have tons of friends and get to see lots of interaction between the sleds but I also have a lodging business and see a ton more than I used to and trust me, many people love their Yamaha 4s and wouldn't trade them for anything. To think we know what is best for someone is a little arrogant. The best sled in the world is the sleds that fits your personal need and there is a place for them all. Yellowknife is a very cold area. This guy does a lot of utility stuff with his sled and with that being said you need to look at power to weight and traction. There is an inherent problem with 4s sleds concerning the weight in the front. It doesn't take much of an off kilter ground to see a Yamaha 4s dive to the low side, they are a handful but still a good quality sled for many aspects of riding. Would I ride the sleds he chose for his application, no but I learned that in hindsight. The idea of a reliable 4s in his environment seems reasonable but to fight the Yamaha chassis in a utility application is just outright dumb unless you are on a flat packed surface. The relays were a problem but from updates that shouldn't be an issue anymore. If I remember right yellowknife did document he used a coolant heater on one of his sleds. My buddy Mr Freeze installed one on his vector and ran that sled in Canada on many trips and sled always started in the extreme cold where as other Yamaha's would not start. ****, most cars will not start in that cold. The ideal sled for their environment would be a 2s, non complicated computerized systems where the cold will not play havoc on systems, narrower front end (38"ish). My first pick would be a AC x-fire with a 2" paddle and scratchers or a Poo SB because the awesome feature of water temp readout. Even a Mtn sled would suffice but not a pro rmk because of cooling issues. The renegade is too short of track and to low of oil consumption like the poo 800 so in my opinion the Xfire or M would be the best. If you are towing a sleigh or any hitch you need the ability to man handle your sled and the weight and front end width are the biggest aspects. You also need traction and power, cat, poo and doo nails it in all those regards. An experienced rider could handle a Yamaha long track but would not be as easy as the others and would probably take the fun factor out of the mix. A dealer with up to date knowledge and experience is vital in that yellowknife area.

 

[G]

If I lived where this guy lives I would have a utility sled. Probably a Bearcat. Naturally aspirated with no computers. Computers don't like temp extremes. And when they quit you are screwed. I bet his buddies on their utility sleds hate it when he comes along on his drift basher when they are relied upon to do all the heavy work. He is just screwing around with the newest tin. At 40 below I want a rope start and a mechanical reverse. All the creature comforts introduced on sleds for the last 25 years which were intended to get more folks into the sport are completely unnecessary to the folks that really and truly rely on their sleds for everyday existence. Running boards that are so riddled with holes they have no strength plus they let even more -40 temps get to your feet? Give me a break. Check out the plastic coupling blocks. Plastic also gets brittle with cold. Bearcat with huge windshield and a bulletproof 570.

 

[momoney2123]

If I lived where this guy lives I would have a utility sled. Probably a Bearcat. Naturally aspirated with no computers. Computers don't like temp extremes. And when they quit you are screwed. I bet his buddies on their utility sleds hate it when he comes along on his drift basher when they are relied upon to do all the heavy work. He is just screwing around with the newest tin. At 40 below I want a rope start and a mechanical reverse. All the creature comforts introduced on sleds for the last 25 years which were intended to get more folks into the sport are completely unnecessary to the folks that really and truly rely on their sleds for everyday existence. Running boards that are so riddled with holes they have no strength plus they let even more -40 temps get to your feet? Give me a break. Check out the plastic coupling blocks. Plastic also gets brittle with cold. Bearcat with huge windshield and a bulletproof 570.

The bearcat in the group has been the least reliable sled of their frinds. Wont start in cold. He has towed loads of 500lbs plus with the gade. He actually rides too.

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Does more than just pulling loads putzing around. If you watched some videos you would understand.

 

[Magnumb]

I think he enjoyed his 4S sleds, but they were just more work to maneuver around. Not alot of his riding is in steep terrain so the weight wasnt a huge issue, but when riding 4-7k a year it can add up.

Not all of his videos are reviews, skip those if you feel insulted and skip this years if you don;t want to watch him riding ski-doo.
It's worth checking some of his adventures.

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The bearcat in the group has been the least reliable sled of their frinds. Wont start in cold. He has towed loads of 500lbs plus with the gade. He actually rides too.

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Does more than just pulling loads putzing around. If you watched some videos you would understand.

This guy carried along pop-up shelter to store his sled in while camping/fishing so he could warm it up engough to start. When dealing with 40 below weather you have to go extremes.

 

[Magnumb]

I think one of his primary reasons for buying 4S yamaha was he had good dealer support and that far north it probably not easy to find.

 

[G]

Renegades were never designed or engineered to pull 500 lbs. They are not designed for a rider and a passenger. They are a single operator snow basher. I am not saying it can't be done but there are better sleds specifically designed for such purposes. They are called utility sleds. If the Bearcat won't start when it gets cold then get it fixed.

 

[Magnumb]

If he were really concerned about reliability he probably should have looked to a 80/90s sled with less electronics and fan cooled. Can still have some fun on those although the newer riding positions would be hard to lose.

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Renegades were never designed or engineered to pull 500 lbs. They are not designed for a rider and a passenger. They are a single operator snow basher. I am not saying it can't be done but there are better sleds specifically designed for such purposes. They are called utility sleds. If the Bearcat won't start when it gets cold then get it fixed.

He has brought it in several times and it still has issues with starting in cold. He is talking about getting somthing else next year.

 

[momoney2123]

Renegades were never designed or engineered to pull 500 lbs. They are not designed for a rider and a passenger. They are a single operator snow basher. I am not saying it can't be done but there are better sleds specifically designed for such purposes. They are called utility sleds. If the Bearcat won't start when it gets cold then get it fixed.

He mentions doo rated the towing capacity of the gade and bumper to be 562 lbs. He said he has exceeded it a few times with no problem. Makes sense as im sure that 562 had a 1.5 safety factor. Utility sleds arent as fun to ride. He likes to ride just as we do and mash the trails and carv the powder, along with towing a tobaggon loaded with god knows what, sometimes a moose.

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Believe me, the guy has done his homework. He Has ridden pretty much everysled known to man. Yellowknife is a pretty large town, especially for up there and pretty much everyone i would assume owns a sled for one reason or another. I think living up there with snow 6+ months a year, he may have a good idea of what the market offers.

 

[lenny]

I did go back and watch a few of his videos and his review. He is a bit older than last time I watched his stuff and seems more mature, kinda like the guy now, good review. Seeing that he has ridden in Revelstoke and hits the pow on the back country, a longer track would suffice very well along with good cooling of the machine no bigger than a 2" though for his somewhat diverse style of riding.

 

[Hoosier]

You guys aren't going to win until you agree that doo is the best at everything. snobuilder's initial response (post #2) hit the nail on the head. Like a broken record - there is a response to any possible opposing opinion you could dream of.

 

[momoney2123]

I did go back and watch a few of his videos and his review. He is a bit older than last time I watched his stuff and seems more mature, kinda like the guy now, good review. Seeing that he has ridden in Revelstoke and hits the pow on the back country, a longer track would suffice very well along with good cooling of the machine no bigger than a 2" though for his somewhat diverse style of riding.

Haha i was wondering where your earlier dislike came from towards him. He seems pretty likeable

 

[momoney2123]

You guys aren't going to win until you agree that doo is the best at everything. snobuilder's initial response (post #2) hit the nail on the head. Like a broken record - there is a response to any possible opposing opinion you could dream of.

Nah not the point. RMK seems universally better in the deep trees and i think the poo axys chassis is as good as any on the trail.
Jury is still out on 800HO. If you guys kno dyno tech jim and a guy were testing 800HOs and seem to have found why some poos make power and some dont. Lot of sensors like etec in ECU, but like any new powerplant they are still working bugs out of the
ECU. Otherwise yes i can argue doo has it covered. I hear alot of people say doo is weak and unreliable, most who kno the sleds kno thats false. Well alan puts his stuff thru the paces and i was more along the lines of showing that.

 

[lenny]

Haha i was wondering where your earlier dislike came from towards him. He seems pretty likeable

it wasn't a dislike but kinda shocked he was influencing peoples decision making when he himself is buying some of the worst sleds for his application and than those who know no better will avoid that machine when it will very well be a good candidate for their style.

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my first trip out west we had a guy with a Nytro who was a beginner rider so we didn't go steep and deep but that sled out there did well an does handle well with a little momentum so when I see yellowknife on a Nytro up there i say,,yuk,,,bad decision. No offense but guys like you and ezra will take that and run with it trying to show people that those sleds are crap, that's what I object to. There are guys on non turbo Nytro that will way out ride Ezra and guys on renegades that will stomp me so what is the point of reviews when you ride the wrong sleds for your application, it is bound for a negative report! Do you see my point?

 

[momoney2123]

I see your point.

But his dealer thought the viper and nytro were perfect candidates for what he does. I would also bet yamaha would say the viper long track..xtx..or whatever would be perfectly suited for that type of riding. Rough trails with flatland powder that doesnt really go over 2 feet. Short track sleds are perfectly capable.

He didnt just dislike the viper becaue of weight. He disliked it becuase of the whole package. If you watch his videos from building the viper with his dealer throughout all the trouble that sled gave him you would understand, weight and performance when the sled worked was not the deal breaker for him, he knew that going into it. He decided in 06 to give up ride for reliability. Just didnt work out.

 

[lenny]

I see your point.

But his dealer thought the viper and nytro were perfect candidates for what he does. I would also bet yamaha would say the viper long track..xtx..or whatever would be perfectly suited for that type of riding. Rough trails with flatland powder that doesnt really go over 2 feet. Short track sleds are perfectly capable.

He didnt just dislike the viper becaue of weight. He disliked it becuase of the whole package. If you watch his videos from building the viper with his dealer throughout all the trouble that sled gave him you would understand, weight and performance when the sled worked was not the deal breaker for him, he knew that going into it. He decided in 06 to give up ride for reliability. Just didnt work out.

my last post for a while. Lets talk about dealers. Do you think any dealer would tell a guy to not buy from him and there is nothing in their line up suitable for him,,,that's not ever gonna happen. The rider needs to decide what is best for himself,,,not the dealer! This shows me that Allan is still buying compulsively. Some people ride their sleds and some people, their sleds rides them. We may just have to agree to disagree but IMO the Viper was doomed from the start when you compare it to a xfire, SB or summit.