2017 Sneak Peek Impressions?

whitedust

Well-known member
Doo.. All about the 850 & Gen 4...lots of flavors. Does doo even care about 4s anymore?..strange product mix at show.

Poo..Nice sleds really good bang for the buck...no Indy. ATVS look like small trucks. How long until Polaris mfgs cars & trucks? lol

Yam.. What flavor Viper or Sidewinder do you want? Apex & Vector live on for another year.

Cat... where were they?

Generally sparse sales help for any brand maybe it got better later I was there 4-5:30 ...pretty good attendence but more peeps 2 years ago....Maybe due to low snow year?

What do you think of Sneak Peek?
 
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eagle1

Well-known member
Was there 4:30-6:30. But just not same when your not buying one. Lol
Not overly impressed with the G4 chassis. Seems like cold ride for serious trail riders. Just seems weird windshield is so far in front of you. Hopefully the motors a winner.
Loved the Polaris switchback le and probably be my choice if I was buying.
Yamaha Sindwinder looked like great package for those wanting big HP.
Apex/Vector looked old school sitting there by themselves.
Cat, just go to dealer. Some on floor already
As far as sales people, tons of dealers all there. At least Doo and Yamaha anyways. Didn't talk to any from Polaris.
Have pics but don't feel like resizing them. Lol
 

ezra

Well-known member
cat bailed a few yrs back .
they say if u want to see one they are on the showroom floor come on out take a look and take one home.
it was nice to have all in same place but what ever.
it is funny all the sales guys there cant sell chit just pass out a huge stack of cards
 

1fujifilm

Well-known member
Was there 4:30-6:30. But just not same when your not buying one. Lol
Not overly impressed with the G4 chassis. Seems like cold ride for serious trail riders. Just seems weird windshield is so far in front of you. Hopefully the motors a winner.
Loved the Polaris switchback le and probably be my choice if I was buying.
Yamaha Sindwinder looked like great package for those wanting big HP.
Apex/Vector looked old school sitting there by themselves.
Cat, just go to dealer. Some on floor already
As far as sales people, tons of dealers all there. At least Doo and Yamaha anyways. Didn't talk to any from Polaris.
Have pics but don't feel like resizing them. Lol

I also hold back on Pics due to the old-school process to post them.
I understand John does this site out of the kindness of his heart (and a few donations) but I would be willing to donate a little more ($20) to fund a project to update the website to allow pics to be processed in an easier fashion (think of Craigslist or other well working pic related sites), I believe others would too. John could even wait for donations to come in prior to making the updates in order to assure funding came in before he outlaid any money.

I do thank John for the site and respect what he has built. Just a suggestion.

Bear

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cat bailed a few yrs back .
they say if u want to see one they are on the showroom floor come on out take a look and take one home.
it was nice to have all in same place but what ever.
it is funny all the sales guys there cant sell chit just pass out a huge stack of cards

The Cat philosophy of "if u want to see one they are on the showroom floor" is one that I use. I go to Ken's Sports in Little Chute, WI and see all the past four years of models each winter (this year I saw new 2016, 2015, 2014, and 2013 models). It's almost like a museum.
To be sort of fair, they have holdover Kawasaki's too (Jet Ski's and Bikes).

Bear
 

momoney2123

New member
Was there 4:30-6:30. But just not same when your not buying one. Lol
Not overly impressed with the G4 chassis. Seems like cold ride for serious trail riders. Just seems weird windshield is so far in front of you. Hopefully the motors a winner.
Loved the Polaris switchback le and probably be my choice if I was buying.
Yamaha Sindwinder looked like great package for those wanting big HP.
Apex/Vector looked old school sitting there by themselves.
Cat, just go to dealer. Some on floor already
As far as sales people, tons of dealers all there. At least Doo and Yamaha anyways. Didn't talk to any from Polaris.
Have pics but don't feel like resizing them. Lol

According to this guy who has given a very honest review of his 4 or 500 miles on the G4 thus far says its warmer than it looks.....



the color scheme is growing on me, I'd like to see some colored hand guards and or windshield to match the Red Decal on the Duck Nose.


hard fresh trails gave me an opportunity to corner with it.

While the blade (TS Ski) is not my personal favorite, it does work really well with the G4's RAS3 front end. The sled was dialed pretty minimum as far as front ski preload went (one) and the sled would lean, bite, then corner. Pretty much could pick a line and aim for it and the RAS3 would carry you through the corner.
There isn't much oversteer with this setup.



The GO button at 35mph roll on will result in carrying the skis a foot plus off the ground (maybe 20" off the ground) for 50 yards: got to credit the strong 850 engine (I love stroker motors!) and the very friction-free feeling P-Drive Clutch. This thing will set a whole new benchmark in terms of 'throttle response'.
Hence, the thumbs up!


Got some riding left to doo!




when you jump on the seat and look forward, you'll swear the (at least the X pkg I had) sled will freeze your "edited for inappropriate language" off, but its uncanny great. At 65mph, I could hold my left hand in front of me at chin/ nose level and not get any wind at me.
I normally ride with no hand guards and a medium 16" window on my XRS because we frequently are out at night and in below zero conditions: this window G4 setup with the hand guards on the bars is AS GOOD AS my XRS as far as wind protection is concerned.

It shouldn't be, but it is. You'll have to take my word for it. When I get next year's sled, I won't be making a normal 'windshield swap' like I always doo, plus I'll keep the handguard setup. Just would like to see some complimentary color options to break up the all black look of the sled.
 

momoney2123

New member
Here is the rest of the review....

I have to recall back in 2002, I had 5 hours on the (then) prototype 800 PTEK REV beaver tail sled: and when I drove it the first 3 miles, I was ready to turn around and head back to the garage: *compared to my current state of the art '02 ZX 800 my sled would eat the new REV in the corners. *The REV was tall, with a soft front end and wasn't like the low-to-the-ground ZX which cornered very very flat, albeit with alot of bump steer. *So the prototype was changed with feedback I handed in and also what other riders contributed and by production of the 2003 REV, it handled better due mostly to a stiffer spring in the front ski shocks than the sled I was on that March of 2002.
*
Jump ahead to present day and its 'deja vu all over again': *this G4 129 was a soft and tall front end, very much like the 02 proto I described above. *I think there's a few areas that will get changed before it hits the snow next season with regards to the spring rate and the final x-pkg shock calibration. *They always wiggle around with this stuff til the very last minute and i'm sure what is being driven now, although it works good, will only be better come fall time.
*
Does it handle (corner) as good as my XS, no at the present time. *But its not the same front end: *RAS2 v RAS3. *I use the Pilot R ski, the G4 uses the TS blade setup. *I have some dual rate springs on my XRS and its a much stiffer and familiar suspension FOR ME after having 3000 plus miles of dialing it in this winter. *With only 300 miles on the G4, its kind of apples and oranges. * Given enough time, I can make the G4 work just as well.
*
On that note, probably the biggest improvement available will be to install the "XRS suspension package" on the G4. *That will put it much closer to the XRS (XS chassis) I currently enjoy and like. *Although it was an afterthought for BRP, I'm grateful they are making a dealer installed 'kit' available for 2017. *While some guys don't need the XRS, I have had them since 2012 and like the seperate rebound and compression adjustments plus the whole extra oil capacity the remote reservoir shock give you. * *The 15/16 XRS are Easily the best bump sled I've ever rode.
*
TNT G4 was not available as a prototype: *the largest advantage to the X-pkg rack system is the short steering rods on each side of the 'rack' which translates into 'zero bump steer' or nearly zero. *Lets just call it minimal bump steer. *So if you are deciding on getting a steering rack vs the other steering found on the TNT, I would advise going with the steering rack, but mostly because that setup comes with the adjustable steering position on the handlebar which is trick and solid feeling. *I rode the sled nearly the entire time in the most forward position because it felt more like the XRS forward steering post position that I've been running the past 5 years.
*
*
*

*
*
I think I answered it mostly above: *but I will add the XS is a wider and bigger feeling sled and the G4 is like a MOTOCROSS BIKE. *Its narrow feeling from your feet forward to the nose. *I think the G4 seat is much better (softer) than my XRS seat (although thats 'prototype' foam I'm sitting on and may not be the production foam for next season). *I like how its narrowed up. *It promotes a forward riding style. *
*
The marketing guys at BRP are bragging about the 'open' toe hold thing,,,,really nothing to me that I thought was an advantage, or a disadvantage. *I'm only 6 feet tall, possibly a shorter person 5' or 5' 6" may feel the open toe and the 'hook' are something they need, but when I lean into a corner with my helmet out over the side of the sled both my feet are still on the running boards. *A shorter person may not have the leg length to stay on the running board and thus may hook the sled and pull with their boot. *Thats not my style and doesn't seem necessary for a taller guy like myself. *Just being honest here....
*
I know if I was reading what someone else said about their first ride on a new Concept like the G4, I'd want them to keep it REAL. *I'm doing the best I can here.... *Not trying to dis the marketing department, its just they're making a big deal about this 'open toe' hold and its really was a non-issue for me. *And no, my feet didn't get cold as these things blow plenty of clutch heat and exhaust heat onto your boots to keep you toasty.
*
Motocross bikes go where you point them: *you lean left, they go left. *You sit back, they pull the front wheels up. *You sit forward and the fork suspension compresses: *Thats how the G4 works. *Much more so than on an XS.
*
*
Its an aggressive chassis that can be run more aggressively than the XS because it responds to where you put your body on the sled and where you have the skis pointed.
 
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Deleted member 10829

Guest
An honest review from a guy whose current sled is an XRS and spells do "doo", yeah that's not biased at all. LOL

I hope to go to the show in Mpls next weekend and will comment then. I have heard the Poo LE with the lime accent color is sweet looking!
 

momoney2123

New member
An honest review from a guy whose current sled is an XRS and spells do "doo", yeah that's not biased at all. LOL

I hope to go to the show in Mpls next weekend and will comment then. I have heard the Poo LE with the lime accent color is sweet looking!


Well according to the mags the G4 and sidewinder does No wrong and are the greatest sleds to ever grace mankind. At least this guy points out somethings that can be improved upon from proto to production. But who am i kidding unlikely you read it anyway.
 

whitedust

Well-known member
Well according to the mags the G4 and sidewinder does No wrong and are the greatest sleds to ever grace mankind. At least this guy points out somethings that can be improved upon from proto to production. But who am i kidding unlikely you read it anyway.

IDK about Cat,Doo & Yam all betting the farm on big dog engines. I'm sure the doo gen 4 will be a good chassis refined each year but XS not bad either. I really wonder if customers are ready to trade in a perfectly good 800 etec XS for the 850 gen 4? I prolly would not just wait & evolve to Gen 4 & 850 if 800 etec is phased out. Doo has developed a lot of interest in ACE 4s & should take the next step with a turbo or super charger...maybe a next year thing?

Yamaha faithful will buy anything new soooo starved for new product & a SW in every flavor. If you want turbo ponies pushing 200hp it is available & the engine looks smaller than the ACE lots of technolgy in the 998 engine. Again same with Yamaha riders not everyone wants or needs big dog sled & many waiting to see 2018 line up and what happens with Apex & Vector? Interesting year for new sleds but I walked away with more questions than answers from doo & Yam line ups wondering what is next?
 
D

Deleted member 10829

Guest
Well according to the mags the G4 and sidewinder does No wrong and are the greatest sleds to ever grace mankind. At least this guy points out somethings that can be improved upon from proto to production. But who am i kidding unlikely you read it anyway.

I'm not sure who you are kidding, do you? I read every word. If you look at the times, I posted my reply the same time you added the rest of the article, so I had only read your first post.
 

momoney2123

New member
IDK about Cat,Doo & Yam all betting the farm on big dog engines. I'm sure the doo gen 4 will be a good chassis refined each year but XS not bad either. I really wonder if customers are ready to trade in a perfectly good 800 etec XS for the 850 gen 4? I prolly would not just wait & evolve to Gen 4 & 850 if 800 etec is phased out. Doo has developed a lot of interest in ACE 4s & should take the next step with a turbo or super charger...maybe a next year thing?

Yamaha faithful will buy anything new soooo starved for new product & a SW in every flavor. If you want turbo ponies pushing 200hp it is available & the engine looks smaller than the ACE lots of technolgy in the 998 engine. Again same with Yamaha riders not everyone wants or needs big dog sled & many waiting to see 2018 line up and what happens with Apex & Vector? Interesting year for new sleds but I walked away with more questions than answers from doo & Yam line ups wondering what is next?


I and 3 others in my group are trading in perfectly good 800etecs 2015 and 2016s. If they didnt come with the G4 850 i was keeping my 800 another year and so were they. Why not has been 100% trouble free for 3400 miles and still has 2 year warranty left.

To me doo's path is crystal clear for MY2018. Bring the 850 into the XRS, Freeride, and 174 packages.

I think they will also bring a 600 class new 2 stroke.

4 strokes stay the same, until maybe MY2019 if they decide to compete in the hyper market. They doo have a super charger and turbo sled thats been being tested for years

No idea tho what yamaha's path is. if they bring some lower hp sleds to compete with ace or just try and corner the hyper sled market
 

whitedust

Well-known member
I and 3 others in my group are trading in perfectly good 800etecs 2015 and 2016s. If they didnt come with the G4 850 i was keeping my 800 another year and so were they. Why not has been 100% trouble free for 3400 miles and still has 2 year warranty left.

To me doo's path is crystal clear for MY2018. Bring the 850 into the XRS, Freeride, and 174 packages.

I think they will also bring a 600 class new 2 stroke.

4 strokes stay the same, until maybe MY2019 if they decide to compete in the hyper market. They doo have a super charger and turbo sled thats been being tested for years

No idea tho what yamaha's path is. if they bring some lower hp sleds to compete with ace or just try and corner the hyper sled market

If you want to have the latest & most hp then 850 & 998 turbo make sense. For me & many others big dog NOT the answer 150 hp about all a rider can use on twisty trails. Sure grades & lakes a rider can air it out but I would rather they slow down when passing on coming sleds on grades. Big Hp at elevation makes sense for mountain riding but I'm having trouble accepting that a rider needs to ride at 125mph on trails. I wonder about all the big dog hp for any OEM on trails. I don't want to see trail speed limits but the snowmobile public is already questioning speed on trails. If 55 mph becomes law only place big dog has purpose is at elevation. This is the OEM market direction that I question as really is no sensible limit to tubo hp for 2s or 4s tech.
 
C

Cirrus_Driver

Guest
Nailed it!

WD right on the money with last post. My thoughts exactly. That horsepower serves no GENERAL purpose other than bragging rights which again, serves no purpose.
Not sure what they are thinking here except big margin $$'s at those prices!
 

dfattack

Well-known member
If you want to have the latest & most hp then 850 & 998 turbo make sense. For me & many others big dog NOT the answer 150 hp about all a rider can use on twisty trails. Sure grades & lakes a rider can air it out but I would rather they slow down when passing on coming sleds on grades. Big Hp at elevation makes sense for mountain riding but I'm having trouble accepting that a rider needs to ride at 125mph on trails. I wonder about all the big dog hp for any OEM on trails. I don't want to see trail speed limits but the snowmobile public is already questioning speed on trails. If 55 mph becomes law only place big dog has purpose is at elevation. This is the OEM market direction that I question as really is no sensible limit to tubo hp for 2s or 4s tech.

I have always been someone who would get the most HP or torque available just in case I needed it...even if I didn't use it. I'm struggling with the question I have which is...is it because I'm getting older and I'm no longer wanting the highest HP? or is it because the HP has been maxed out for trails? I see a need for the mountain riding segment, but I'm leaning towards the idea that I just think the max HP for trail riding has reached it's maximum. My sled (Apex XTX) has more HP than I will personally ever use. I like to see Doo continually improving their suspension/ride. Yamaha has, in my opinion partially fallen asleep at the wheel, except for the sidewinder. They obviously think there is money to be made with more HP. We will all soon see if it works out for them. In the mean time I will wait until they have some honest improvements in something...either features or ride or something else.

Fortunately, I LOVE my Apex XTX and am sitting here patiently waiting for future while still being happy with what I have and I'M NOT HAVING TO SPEND ANY MONEY! :)
 

momoney2123

New member
WD right on the money with last post. My thoughts exactly. That horsepower serves no GENERAL purpose other than bragging rights which again, serves no purpose.
Not sure what they are thinking here except big margin $$'s at those prices!

Guys have big egos, so it appears Yamaha is after them. They had to do something to make a big splash. If the numbers
I seen from 2015 are accurate Yamaha held a 3% market share. Would be tuff to go from any other angle especially from a 4 stroke. I think it works and they sell a good amount of sidewinders.
 

whitedust

Well-known member
Guys have big egos, so it appears Yamaha is after them. They had to do something to make a big splash. If the numbers
I seen from 2015 are accurate Yamaha held a 3% market share. Would be tuff to go from any other angle especially from a 4 stroke. I think it works and they sell a good amount of sidewinders.

What we are saying is new OEM sled market over 150-160 hp will become saturated quickly with 125-150 hp the sweet spot for the masses. Even 100hp doo Ace does well. I'm not sure doo riders want or need extra hp of 850 unless doo discontinues the 800etec as most seem happy with their 800s. 160ish hp plenty for me on my Apex XTX so maybe pick up a used cherry SW someday for right price if it happens at all but not new just not worth the lean green to me. I'm more interested in paying for out of box ride comfort, high windshield, stock cushy suspension, a warm ride that deflects wind & power steering. Sure I need an engine with good power but 150ish hp will do. The big dog sled will address hp junkies for now but not the snowmoible touring masses. Doo needs to turbo the Ace & Yam needs to update the Vector & Apex to get the masses to buy. So for now I question the the long term market direction of both Doo & Yamaha & these big dog engines.
 

momoney2123

New member
What we are saying is new OEM sled market over 150-160 hp will become saturated quickly with 125-150 hp the sweet spot for the masses. Even 100hp doo Ace does well. I'm not sure doo riders want or need extra hp of 850 unless doo discontinues the 800etec as most seem happy with their 800s. 160ish hp plenty for me on my Apex XTX so maybe pick up a used cherry SW someday for right price if it happens at all but not new just not worth the lean green to me. I'm more interested in paying for out of box ride comfort, high windshield, stock cushy suspension, a warm ride that deflects wind & power steering. Sure I need an engine with good power but 150ish hp will do. The big dog sled will address hp junkies for now but not the snowmoible touring masses. Doo needs to turbo the Ace & Yam needs to update the Vector & Apex to get the masses to buy. So for now I question the the long term market direction of both Doo & Yamaha & these big dog engines.

Doos longterm direction is clear to me. Keep evolving the 2 stroke. Lightweight crisp more power with better longevity thats better on fuel and oil...
 

eagle1

Well-known member
Remember 204hp is not Yamaha's number, that's independent dyno. Yamaha was saying 185.
Doo 850 is not that much more current 800. 10 at most. More about the throttle response.
Don't see no HP war. Sindwinder new for Yamaha but really that just replaced the Suzuki turbo motor.
 

whitedust

Well-known member
Remember 204hp is not Yamaha's number, that's independent dyno. Yamaha was saying 185.
Doo 850 is not that much more current 800. 10 at most. More about the throttle response.
Don't see no HP war. Sindwinder new for Yamaha but really that just replaced the Suzuki turbo motor.

Yamaha had 204hp placard at their SW exhibit. Why?... IDK?... but it was there. 998 is a lot more than just throttle response its a big dog 4s engine!...lol... Hp & Yamaha is like taking candy from a baby easy to do whenever they want to do it. The 850 is the doo big dog as 800etec retired the Mach.. It will be interesting to see if Doo 850 retires the 800 etec as the 850 may stand on its own because it maybe capable of a lot more hp pump out 10 -15 more ponies in near future may put turbo on for bunch more hp. I don't know what Doo has in mind for 850 but suspect they beefed it up for a reason & I thinking turbo or supercharger coming soon? Don't think today think near future maybe 5 years out in 1 year increments for both doo & yam.
 

eagle1

Well-known member
Gotta read the fine print, *independent dyno. Dyno tech goes for big HP one run,.optimal temps. Either way sure its gonna be fun machine. Glad to see engine/electronics all desiged by Yamaha.
 
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