That's what your doing!! You hate the 600 acre farmer. But not the 40 billion dollar a year fossil fuel corporation. You have an ex fossil fuel CEO running the state department. But a farmer makes some cash and you cant stand it. What are the NORTHWOODS home getting out of your price range and your looking for someone to blame?? That's what sounds like the problem
snobuilder
Well-known member
Yes Abe I sure do hide my thoughts on here....LMAO....Just calling it as I see it. Please don't ever call yourself a conservative if you think corporate welfare is the "good" kind of welfare....LOL
And no one ever defends ethanol unless they are lining there own pockets with my TAX dollars. Left on it's own merits ethanol wouldn't even be a good conversation starter let alone fuel.
I think the overall dislike for ethanol comes from the fact that it is forced down our throats by a bloated, tax hungry unelected government body.
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Snobuilder "corporate welfare" is the largest, and the most costly welfare program in this USA. Crony capitalism. A small business owner I have come to know in Ontario, Canada considers the USA as a corporate/business welfare state. I do not like welfare. I no longer have any such con/lib standing. Haven't for many years. And most self called conservatives don't even understand what the word really means. Lets see, counterfeit cons, loony libs, or what ever. Just tags, nothing else. Poisonous politics. Some people only listen to what they want to hear, and will even knowingly lie to support their thoughts. I keep an open mind as my grandfather taught me well that you can always learn something new. Always. It works really well. If you do a little looking, you'll find that ethanol has been standing on it's own for quite some time due to the economics of its multiple use additive value. Economics, capitalism, or what ever you want to call it. The "being forced down your throat" you don't like is the oxygenated fuel requirement. It does not dictate ethanol. Also ethanol can be and is produced by many different crops, not just corn. Corn seems to be the best economic choice now. Ethanol is what the petro industries use because it is a multi purpose additive. The "octane enhancer" part is what the petro industry really like, and need. As for the economics, there is nothing else that comes close. And, ethanol subsidies have been gone for over 5 years, like it or not. Sorry. The auto industry already have developed engines that use high blends of ethanol/alcohol. These engines weigh less, are smaller, more fuel efficient, have much better hp, and torque. You may not like change, but you need to deal with reality, because realty will surely deal with you!!! Perhaps, I'll grow some corn, grind it, distill it, and either burn it, or maybe drink it!!!!!!!!! And, I say to you have a great day!!! Again, I say so what!!!
C
Cirrus_Driver
Guest
Well since it was just fine to refer to Mr. T using a derogatory term with no consequences, I'll just say there are plenty of 'dem der idjuts' in this thread as well.
Ethanol DOES NOT stand on it's own in the free market, you total blockhead....as long as I can't go to a pump in the WI 5 county "non-compliance" area, and make a purchase choice between reformulated (garbage) gas, and regular unleaded, non-corn gas.
Apparently this concept is too tough to grasp for some limited minds? Without the free market choice of products, well - there is NO free market. It's a government mandated, subsidized, regulated, socialistic market.
Take away the subsidies on the ethanol - no government incentive to produce it, let the price be determined based on cost + X markup, and put it along side regular unleaded at ALL pumps in WI, and let the consumer decide.
When that happens, get back to me.
Ethanol DOES NOT stand on it's own in the free market, you total blockhead....as long as I can't go to a pump in the WI 5 county "non-compliance" area, and make a purchase choice between reformulated (garbage) gas, and regular unleaded, non-corn gas.
Apparently this concept is too tough to grasp for some limited minds? Without the free market choice of products, well - there is NO free market. It's a government mandated, subsidized, regulated, socialistic market.
Take away the subsidies on the ethanol - no government incentive to produce it, let the price be determined based on cost + X markup, and put it along side regular unleaded at ALL pumps in WI, and let the consumer decide.
When that happens, get back to me.
Wow!!! You guys can't seem to see the forest from the trees. You belly ache is the oxygenated mandate. The reason ethanol is the oxygenate of choice, is the octane enhancement that it provides to lower octane gasoline also. But what ever, I don't believe it's going away, and you'll probably see more of it. If you WILL look into the economics of it, you'll understand. But I doubt you will. XXX007, Mr.T???????????? What is this supposed to mean??? I made no derogatory statement, or terms, towards any person in particular, or individual??? Oh well, I say so what.
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Abe what is and how does oxygenated gasoline differ from regular 10% E gas? Also remain on the high road as you always have done in the past.
T
Tracker
Guest
no sweat abe or triple X...I didn't ever notice anything mean spirited....its all good....passion is one thing....meaness another....nothing mean in here...just passion IMO...which is good in all debates....same as bigfoot....it brings the hidden side into the light often
Pete E10 is a oxygenated fuel/gasoline. Corn ethanol has many advantages over other oxygenates. Production economics, and as a octane enhancer. The octane enhancer is the big one. The petro companies like, and need the octane portion.Abe what is and how does oxygenated gasoline differ from regular 10% E gas? Also remain on the high road as you always have done in the past.
Yeah but doesn't Milwaukee and surounding counties have to use something other than commmon E10 gas for air polution concerns? The term oxygenated and reformulated in that area has had me confused for years.
The term reformulated fuel/gasoline can mean many different things. I would presume, that the reformulated gas in the Milw. area that you are questioning, they would use E10 as the oxygenated fuel to meet the air quality standards. How ever they also use the reformulated term as in summer/winter grade gasoline. Different grade standards as related to climate temperature. This is done besides the oxygenate requirement.
Thanks Abe prolly is a summer/winter gas grade in that area....I'll look into the reformulated angle on the interweb...thanks again.
http://brownsmarina.com/tech-rfgas.html Lots of debate of pros and cons on RFG E 10 seems southeastern WI is stuck with the stuff until laws are changed. I will never use E10 in any of my 2s... my cars /trucks not so much an issue as 2s engines. I have never seen blender gas pumps in the WI northwoods and assume non ethanol gas is stored in its own tank.....is this correct?...where are these blender pumps? In Amasa,MI at Tall Pines I was told that their octane grades were blended at the pump when they ran out of premium but all their gas was E10 just varied by octane at the pump. A lot to learn about this subject.
WD most blender pumps west of Mississippi river. Yes they have 2 tanks, reg non ethanol, and E-85. Usually 5 choices, from reg non ethanol thru E-85. Blender pumps nothing new. Late 1960's, early 1970's some gas stations had blender pumps with 4 choices out of two tanks. 1 was ethyl grade (premium high octane/high lead), and (regular octane/lead). The Conoco station I worked at was this way. There were still a lot of high compression engines then that had to have the high octane/high lead to prevent detonation. The blender pumps satisfy as to each his own choice, and price.
Was just in FL. Just about every station had non eth pumps. My wife's Jeep gets 5MPG less on E85 than 87. A new station just went in near my house in Ilanoid and has blender pumps. It has warning stickers on the pumps warning that ethanol damages small engines and vehicles produced before 2000.
dfattack
Well-known member
I want regular unleaded gas at the pumps not ethanol. I ALWAYS find stations that have an ethanol free option, usually premium. I don't care if it's more expensive. I don't have facts but I do believe ethanol is being forced on us by the government. Just like front load washers 
. Why would anyone WANT to put ethanol in their engines if they know it can lead to problems which is does? I've never spoken to anyone who was happy to find ethanol at the pumps or who was seeking it out to put in their vehicle. I've only heard from people who are trying to avoid it. Granted many people don't have a clue and that's ok. with so much negativity towards ethanol..based on the negative effects to the engines and not based on negativity towards government mandates, why would all of the "OIL" companies want to sell such an unpopular item that can actually harm their customer's engines? It makes no sense and makes me wonder who's calling the shots here...
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we could actually have the same discussion about the bio-diesel crap too. I have my first diesel engine in my life and have had to become educated on that topic as well. Just give me pure gas and pure diesel. why is that so hard?
. Why would anyone WANT to put ethanol in their engines if they know it can lead to problems which is does? I've never spoken to anyone who was happy to find ethanol at the pumps or who was seeking it out to put in their vehicle. I've only heard from people who are trying to avoid it. Granted many people don't have a clue and that's ok. with so much negativity towards ethanol..based on the negative effects to the engines and not based on negativity towards government mandates, why would all of the "OIL" companies want to sell such an unpopular item that can actually harm their customer's engines? It makes no sense and makes me wonder who's calling the shots here...- - - Updated - - -
we could actually have the same discussion about the bio-diesel crap too. I have my first diesel engine in my life and have had to become educated on that topic as well. Just give me pure gas and pure diesel. why is that so hard?
I want regular unleaded gas at the pumps not ethanol. I ALWAYS find stations that have an ethanol free option, usually premium. I don't care if it's more expensive. I don't have facts but I do believe ethanol is being forced on us by the government. Just like front load washers
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we could actually have the same discussion about the bio-diesel crap too. I have my first diesel engine in my life and have had to become educated on that topic as well. Just give me pure gas and pure diesel. why is that so hard?
dfattack, the oil companies like the ethanol to blend for 2 reasons. They need a oxygenate. The ethanol provides the oxygenate, plus it enhances octane. The octane enhancer is what they really like as a added value. That is why they like ethanol. Economics!!! Bio in diesel adds lubricity to the fuel, and it will burn cleaner. Any stored fuels, gas or diesel now days need to be pre treated with a proper stabilizer additive, pure non blended, as much as blended, or you will encounter problems.
related question:
when I pull up to fill my mc tank and the last guy pumped 10% ethanol -then I switch to prem no ethanol - how much ethanol am I getting anyway?
10% for the first gallon? so I guess the question is how many gallons does it take to clear the line?
dedicated pumps are rare but we do have one in New Prague MN- it's at an SA station
when I pull up to fill my mc tank and the last guy pumped 10% ethanol -then I switch to prem no ethanol - how much ethanol am I getting anyway?
10% for the first gallon? so I guess the question is how many gallons does it take to clear the line?
dedicated pumps are rare but we do have one in New Prague MN- it's at an SA station
I want regular unleaded gas at the pumps not ethanol. I ALWAYS find stations that have an ethanol free option, usually premium. I don't care if it's more expensive. I don't have facts but I do believe ethanol is being forced on us by the government. Just like front load washers
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we could actually have the same discussion about the bio-diesel crap too. I have my first diesel engine in my life and have had to become educated on that topic as well. Just give me pure gas and pure diesel. why is that so hard?
Gasoline Blender pumps is the answer but not in areas where E is mandated by law. Currently car/truck OEMs are way ahead with clean burning fuel software than they were 15-20 years ago so E mandate laws need to be eliminated and let the market buy what they want via blender pumps. All gasoline fuel burns equally clean so E mandate is outdated and has been for years. Not sure about diesel as never had that tech.
I hear what you are saying WD, and fully understand your dislikes. But auto MFG's even though are very high tech as compared to 15/20 years ago, still need the oxygenated fuel if burning gasoline. Not even close to be able to do without it. Also, you need to add in the fact of more autos, and trucks on the road today as compared to years ago. The only way around is going to LNG/CNG or LP. Perhaps we could have avoided a lot of this stuff with the T.Boone Pickens plan???