Ethanol mandate should be ENDED

[G]

To much infrastructure in place to go away from ethanol. Don't see it happening. However Tesla is getting stronger every day. Better batteries and more charging locations. Also folks around here are really getting into ION ice augers. They are the real deal. No gas of any kind to deal with and better torque than any gas job. Batteries really have come a long way in just the last 5 years. Also I personally never would have though the Prius would ever have sold the way it has.

 

[whitedust]

To much infrastructure in place to go away from ethanol. Don't see it happening. However Tesla is getting stronger every day. Better batteries and more charging locations. Also folks around here are really getting into ION ice augers. They are the real deal. No gas of any kind to deal with and better torque than any gas job. Batteries really have come a long way in just the last 5 years. Also I personally never would have though the Prius would ever have sold the way it has.

Tesla needs to release a pickup truck and I'll be all over that for sure.

 

[snobuilder]

Tesla needs to release a pickup truck and I'll be all over that for sure.

Will it need power steering?

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To much infrastructure in place to go away from ethanol. Don't see it happening. However Tesla is getting stronger every day. Better batteries and more charging locations. Also folks around here are really getting into ION ice augers. They are the real deal. No gas of any kind to deal with and better torque than any gas job. Batteries really have come a long way in just the last 5 years. Also I personally never would have though the Prius would ever have sold the way it has.

Please get on board with the new tech. Every less person buying real gas will lower my cost..... go local, be diverse, embrace sustainability, and only eat grass fed!!!!!!!!

 

[snobuilder]

I hear what you are saying WD, and fully understand your dislikes. But auto MFG's even though are very high tech as compared to 15/20 years ago, still need the oxygenated fuel if burning gasoline. Not even close to be able to do without it. Also, you need to add in the fact of more autos, and trucks on the road today as compared to years ago. The only way around is going to LNG/CNG or LP. Perhaps we could have avoided a lot of this stuff with the T.Boone Pickens plan???

Cut the crap, old abe. Oil companies can make octane without a mandate and I have never seen a gas cap that says OXYGENATED FUEL ONLY.


And, please, ...talk down to me and tell me I don't understand.....LOL flaming liberal !!!!!

 

[frnash]

Will [the Tesla pickup truck] need power steering?

Nope.
It will be equipped from the factory with E-lec-trickle steering!

And you can rig a gas tank in the back of the Tesla pickup truck with fuel for the generator (also in the back o' the pick-um-up truck) with which you can charge the Tesla batteries!

Clever fellers, these Tesla Engineers!

 

[snobuilder]

Nope.
It will be equipped from the factory with E-lec-trickle steering!

And you can rig a gas tank in the back of the Tesla pickup truck with fuel for the generator (also in the back o' the pick-um-up truck) with which you can charge the Tesla batteries!

Clever fellers, these Tesla Engineers!

PERFECT!.....and if you drive it in the "corn belt" fuel will always be just a ditch away!!!!

 

[old abe]

Cut the crap, old abe. Oil companies can make octane without a mandate and I have never seen a gas cap that says OXYGENATED FUEL ONLY.


And, please, ...talk down to me and tell me I don't understand.....LOL flaming liberal !!!!!

Well snobuilder I'm not sure what flaming liberal has to do with octane??? The higher the octane, the slower, and colder the burn??? But anyway, this should be right in you realm as economic capitalism. Side by side, at the same pump, the straight grade 87 octane is 30, to 45 cents, higher priced than E87. So guess what one has the overwhelming sales volume??? Anyway, I say so what, and I couldn't care less!!! So maybe next time.

 

[dfattack]

dfattack, the oil companies like the ethanol to blend for 2 reasons. They need a oxygenate. The ethanol provides the oxygenate, plus it enhances octane. The octane enhancer is what they really like as a added value. That is why they like ethanol. Economics!!! Bio in diesel adds lubricity to the fuel, and it will burn cleaner. Any stored fuels, gas or diesel now days need to be pre treated with a proper stabilizer additive, pure non blended, as much as blended, or you will encounter problems.

I'm sure OIL companies can figure out how to oxygenate (if that's even necessary) their fuel without having to use corn and thereby causing so many mechanical issues with engines. recycled cooking oil in diesel??? That CANNOT be the only way to "lubricate" engines. There are additives all up and down the aisles in auto parts stores that do that. In fact, with your Ontario connection you may know that shell Canada has two types of diesel, regular and V-power which already has what you think bio diesel has...without the corn oil crap or whatever it is.

I just don't see the common sense / logic behind forcing ethanol and bio-diesel on consumers. I'm glad we have options available to us to NOT buy ethanol/bio-diesel.

 

[towtruck]

Well snobuilder I'm not sure what flaming liberal has to do with octane??? The higher the octane, the slower, and colder the burn??? But anyway, this should be right in you realm as economic capitalism. Side by side, at the same pump, the straight grade 87 octane is 30, to 45 cents, higher priced than E87. So guess what one has the overwhelming sales volume??? Anyway, I say so what, and I couldn't care less!!! So maybe next time.

pretty sure snob meant HE was the flaming lib that could not understand, the ...... is short for "I am a" in snob lang

 

[old abe]

I'm sure OIL companies can figure out how to oxygenate (if that's even necessary) their fuel without having to use corn and thereby causing so many mechanical issues with engines. recycled cooking oil in diesel??? That CANNOT be the only way to "lubricate" engines. There are additives all up and down the aisles in auto parts stores that do that. In fact, with your Ontario connection you may know that shell Canada has two types of diesel, regular and V-power which already has what you think bio diesel has...without the corn oil crap or whatever it is.

I just don't see the common sense / logic behind forcing ethanol and bio-diesel on consumers. I'm glad we have options available to us to NOT buy ethanol/bio-diesel.

dfattack; yes there are other oxygenates, but they are not cost friendly, and they do not enhance the octane number. As for the Canadian diesel fuel specs, they are very much identical to our U.S. specs. Regular/Low grade diesel fuel, has a lower "cetane" number, and less detergents/additives than the Premium/High grade diesel fuel in both the U.S., and Canada. The higher the "cetane" number the better the combustion characteristics of diesel fuel. Thus called a "premium" diesel fuel. Such as in better starting, better mpg, and economic operation. Both countries are mandated ULSD, or "Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel". Canada also uses Bio diesel as a Premium grade diesel fuel, as it burns very clean, and adds lubricity. In many ways, you can call Canada "more green" than the U.S.

 

[dfattack]

dfattack; yes there are other oxygenates, but they are not cost friendly, and they do not enhance the octane number. As for the Canadian diesel fuel specs, they are very much identical to our U.S. specs. Regular/Low grade diesel fuel, has a lower "cetane" number, and less detergents/additives than the Premium/High grade diesel fuel in both the U.S., and Canada. The higher the "cetane" number the better the combustion characteristics of diesel fuel. Thus called a "premium" diesel fuel. Such as in better starting, better mpg, and economic operation. Both countries are mandated ULSD, or "Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel". Canada also uses Bio diesel as a Premium grade diesel fuel, as it burns very clean, and adds lubricity. In many ways, you can call Canada "more green" than the U.S.

Well, I was done with this thread but I have to reply to you old Abe. I will not continue to debate you on the advantages of ethanol and bio diesel. We are going to disagree. As far as Canada fuel goes, I can say with 100% certainty that yes, Canada is more "green" than the U.S...BUT when it comes to ethanol and diesel at SHELL stations, I much prefer shell Canada. All shell premium gas in ontario is ethanol free and the diesel DOES NOT CONTAIN bio diesel, especially the "premium" diesel as you suggest. I have done as much research as possible short of getting an engineering degree on this subject and they do not have bio diesel. EVERY gas station employee I have spoken to doesn't even know what it is. Granted most of them weren't the sharpest knife in the drawer but the individuals who would know didn't have a clue.

Now, forget all this stuff and let's see each other on the trail next season...in the U.S. or Canada and I can guarantee you I will not have ethanol in my sled or bio-diesel in the truck!

 

[old abe]

Well, I was done with this thread but I have to reply to you old Abe. I will not continue to debate you on the advantages of ethanol and bio diesel. We are going to disagree. As far as Canada fuel goes, I can say with 100% certainty that yes, Canada is more "green" than the U.S...BUT when it comes to ethanol and diesel at SHELL stations, I much prefer shell Canada. All shell premium gas in ontario is ethanol free and the diesel DOES NOT CONTAIN bio diesel, especially the "premium" diesel as you suggest. I have done as much research as possible short of getting an engineering degree on this subject and they do not have bio diesel. EVERY gas station employee I have spoken to doesn't even know what it is. Granted most of them weren't the sharpest knife in the drawer but the individuals who would know didn't have a clue.

Now, forget all this stuff and let's see each other on the trail next season...in the U.S. or Canada and I can guarantee you I will not have ethanol in my sled or bio-diesel in the truck!

dfattack I agree on all!!! I have no side to this on either issue. That's why I prefer the customer have the choice to buy, and burn whatever he, or she wants!!! I use a lot of fuel, gasoline, and diesel, so I did a a lot of research as to how to deal with the fuels that we have to deal with today without having problems of any kind. My jobber/bulk supplier, has been very helpful to me on these subjects. Storage is the big one. As even the straight non-blended gasoline, or diesel have a very, very short self life. I look forward to meeting you, and sincerely hope you always can find the fuel you prefer!!!!!!!! Have a great enjoyable summer season!!!

 

[snobuilder]

You just said that diesel has a very, very short "shelf life".
Please explain.

 

[old abe]

You just said that diesel has a very, very short "shelf life".
Please explain.

snobuilder all of the fuels we use today have a very short "shelf life", "storage period", as compared to the fuels of some years ago. ULSD has a very ,very short storage period as compared to the old sulfur diesel fuel. This relates to the storage period fuels can stored without it falling out of specs, such as staying "fresh". The type of storage, weather conditions, temperature, how full the storage vessel/tank is, all can effect the period of time before the fuel goes stale, falls out of condition, or below specs. What ever you want to call it. I pretreat all storage tanks prior to the bulk delivery with a fuel stabilizer/conditioner no matter straight fuel, blended fuel, gasoline, and diesel. It has worked out very good for me.

 

[goofy600]

Old Abe, what fuel treatment do you use for bulk gasoline? How gas do you get in bulk? And how much fuel treatment do you use?

 

[old abe]

Old Abe, what fuel treatment do you use for bulk gasoline? How gas do you get in bulk? And how much fuel treatment do you use?

I try my best to only store what gasoline is absolutely necessary due to the poorer quality/grade gasoline of now days. The fuel treatment/stabilizer I would use is StarTron, or Seafoam, as stabilizers only. Both work well. The StarTron will maybe last longer? And K-100 as a stabilizer, and octane enhancer. K-100 being the most costly, but offers more also. I carry a small container of K-100 on my sled should I happen to get bad gas on the trail. Power Service diesel fuel treatments only, as they do not contain any naptha, alcohol, or any other abrasive/dry/non lubricating chemicals". Clear Diesel for storage/stabilizer. All my bulk delivered diesel fuel has the storage vessel/tank pretreated with Clear Diesel prior to delivery. Kleen diesel for cetane boost/cleaning/lubricity, only when needed. And Diesel Fuel Supplement for anti-gel/lubricity, only when needed. When they removed the most of the sulfur from diesel fuel, its shelf life/storage life tanked!!! Hope this helps you out goofy600. I work with 2 bulk fuel jobbers/suppliers, and 3 fuel injection services and labs. Using, and storing fuels, gasoline, or diesel is not as it once used to be.