Groomers - tractors vs fully tracked machines

[sjb]

I have been looking at the reports for all of the UP and it appears many clubs have their groomers down, and in particular, tracked machines like tuckers, BOMBARDIER, or Piston Bullies. A few years back my local club went to 1 tracked machine (tucker) and a Case/IH tractor with tracks around 200 horse. Once the trails are set up, pretty much our tractor is all that runs. Maybe my perception is wrong, but it seems to me the tractors seem to hold up a lot better with less issues than the traditional groomers. I understand the need for a machine that can have great weight displacement over swamps, but once the trail is set up, and especially on logging roads and grades, it would seem a tractor would be a more reliable, faster, better way to groom. Maybe there is weight restriction on bridges that the tucker type are better suited for. But what else am I missing - cost, height of tractor, don't look as cool..............?

Any thoughts from this group?

 

[Highflyer]

I have been looking at the reports for all of the UP and it appears many clubs have their groomers down, and in particular, tracked machines like tuckers, BOMBARDIER, or Piston Bullies. A few years back my local club went to 1 tracked machine (tucker) and a Case/IH tractor with tracks around 200 horse. Once the trails are set up, pretty much our tractor is all that runs. Maybe my perception is wrong, but it seems to me the tractors seem to hold up a lot better with less issues than the traditional groomers. I understand the need for a machine that can have great weight displacement over swamps, but once the trail is set up, and especially on logging roads and grades, it would seem a tractor would be a more reliable, faster, better way to groom. Maybe there is weight restriction on bridges that the tucker type are better suited for. But what else am I missing - cost, height of tractor, don't look as cool..............?

Any thoughts from this group?

Great question. However, I would bet this cold weather has a lot to do with breakdowns. When its below zero for this extended of time things will break.

 

[snobuilder]

Many clubs are going to the tractors for good reasons.....faster, less fuel, etc. The biggest drawback is if you go with an all tractor fleet, some swamp trails that were groomed in the past will no longer get groomed.

 

[old abe]

If the tractor is equipped with 4X4 rubber tracks, many issues are alleviated. Even some what the swamp issue. Ground PSI very low. Several makes of track systems are available as OEM add on's. CNH produces front wheel assist tractors with rear track system as factory equipped. That is a CNH OEM product. Track tractors are much, much better than FWA tractor with tires for grooming purposes. But the tracks are very costly!!!!!!!!!! Imo, well worth the extra costs. Hey snowmobiles have tracks for a reason!!!

 

[tack836]

My dad grooms with both tuckers and a non tracked case tractor. The area he grooms is very twisty and hilly and he says the tractor is much harder to groom with on those types of trails. It basically requires constant attention while with the tucker you basically put it in gear and raise lower the drag as nessasary. The tractor can only pull the 8 foot drag so every trail has to be double dragged eveytime where the tucker can get away with a single pass if the trails arent really bad. Never seen anyone at the barn working on the tractor though.

 

[ddhanna]

Excepting Argos, they all sink.

 

[gade-thrasher]

There's a huge difference when it comes to weight and hp. We have a early 2000's 110hp tractor (Sur-trac). When coupled to the drag it weighs in at over 20,000lbs. We also have a Prinoth Husky (looks like what you see running around a ski hill). It has 200hp, and when coupled to the drag it weighs in at around 12,000lbs. That's a huge difference in weight and the ability to make it though the swamps. The Prinoth is faster, uses less fuel, moves more snow, tougher, easier to drive, etc., etc. In every comparison, it is better than the Sur-trac ... except when it comes to repairs. And converted tractor can be repaired quite easily through whatever local supply shop is around. The Prinoth, however, needs a service rep for which the closest one is over 10hrs away.

 

[old abe]

It's all give, and take. Durability, parts availability, service as assisted,or not. Tractor dealer/service centers more prevalent for sure. Yes, the tractors are built with weight manufactured in them for a reason. Designed purpose being traction for pulling various type implements in dirt/soil. This is the down side of tractor/groomer. That's where the 4X4 track tractor has a advantage over wheeled/tires, in carrying the weight, lower ground pressure. However, sadly, none will float!!!

 

[G]

Up here they use tractors. Long ago they started with a Tucker. It was a constant battle just to keep it going. Transmissions and track repair that never ended. They still use a Piston Bully for the swamp trail but everything else is done with tracked Case 4 wheel drives. They run 2 of them - one in each ditch. That way if one gets stuck they can pull it out with the other one. We don't have a normal club. Each of these Cases costs about 300 grand. But these guys are farmers and have the tractors anyway. It works out. Much more comfy to drive than a Piston Bully also.

 

[sjb]

Another thought - was talking with my brother. In his club, they lease out their tractors to a local farmer who they know well, and is known to take care of his equipment well. This way during the non snowy months, the tractor is essentially making money for the club. No you don't recoup all your costs, but it helps to offset the high cost of a 4x4 tractor.

 

[ddhanna]

Another factor for us is that it is easier to get volunteers to use a Tucker or PB than a tractor. Easier operation, comfy, two (big) seats, etc.. We try to keep 2 of both styles based on our needs. Every operation has different needs.

 

[sweeperguy]

Excepting Argos, they all sink.

View attachment 57890

View attachment 57891

 

[renegade]

Tractors much more affordable and hold there value much better. And easy to sell. Farmers want them. They will have low hours for there age. Plus some counties/clubs are able to lease tractors out in the summer.

 

[tealracing16]

Tractors much more affordable and hold there value much better. And easy to sell. Farmers want them. They will have low hours for there age. Plus some counties/clubs are able to lease tractors out in the summer.

This was discussed as a club as we have a tractor set up but the problem is the farmer is going to use the snot out of it compared to how little we use it. Then in January when there are problems who pays for the repairs? Is annual maintenance based a percentage of hours put on by each group? Too many variables so believe it or not we let it sit.

 

[old abe]

I have a friend who would rent his tractor to the club he belonged to. This sounds like a better way to me if possible??? Especially in lower snow areas???

 

[1fujifilm]

I have a friend who would rent his tractor to the club he belonged to. This sounds like a better way to me if possible??? Especially in lower snow areas???

Same in the Fox Valley, WI. When you see a tractor grooming, many times it will have a farms name painted on the tractor. Heck, maybe the Farmer even volunteers and the Snowmobile club pays him.

Bear

 

[old abe]

Same in the Fox Valley, WI. When you see a tractor grooming, many times it will have a farms name painted on the tractor. Heck, maybe the Farmer even volunteers and the Snowmobile club pays him.

Bear

Right on 1fujifilm. My friend kept the tractor and groomer in his building, maintained it, and as a club member/volunteer operated it most times also. It seemed as a good arrangement.