Sorry you feel that way.....Every club, and every county is different...but if you don't think these issues are real, or aren't something the clubs deal with on a yearly basis...I don't know what to tell ya. .....The general public has no clue what it takes to maintain, groom and keep trails open....it's not as easy as it looks. Dealing with land owners (many of them new to the Northwoods since Covid), is becoming increasingly difficult. We have a very well run club that stays with in it's budget, and because of that, the business end runs smooth...we also have numerous support/riders clubs with many volunteers that help with brushing and marking....those things are not issues....its dealing with land owners, and the general public's perception of snowmobilers as drunks on high powered machines... that is the problem
The Future of our sport
- Thread starter attakman
- Start date
ddhanna
Active member
FYI, after 25 years as secretary and treasurer with Three Lakes Trails, I feel I have a clue about what it takes including over 100 land use agreements. I have volunteered many thousands of hours to the mission. And I don't see public perception as an issue/problem around here. Like I said after your similar rants last year, perhaps you should consider taking a break and get recharged. Just do only what is comfortable for you. BTW, thanks for your great trail reports!
hermie
Well-known member
The wife and I personally belong to 3 clubs in Vilas. We use to belong to just one in the the town we have our weekend home. We tried to help them brush trails but they weren't very welcoming,very clicky is the best way to describe it. We are still members but don't participate in any trail maintenance with them anymore. We helped another club a couple of years ago and they were very welcoming and gave us a free membership for one year for helping with brushing. We our now paying members and they are our main club. We help them brush every fall and helped in December after the November snow. We also joined another club because of a guy helping the club we were helping said they could really use members in the club he belongs to. We joined and also help them with brushing. They 2 are very welcoming. Like Attackman has said things up there have really changed since covid and to me personally it's really sad. It's not the same Northwoods from when we bought in 2016. Still a lot of really good folks up there but now also some that are not so good. So I could see how it would be getting harder and harder to keep the trail system intact. I personally just want to thank all the people who put in so much effort to keep the trail system going. We do what we can but it is very little compared to a lot of club volunteers.
I hardly call being blunt and honest "ranting"..i will always call stuff as i see it.....i guess you dont have the trespassing or noise complaints we have down here..maybe you have better land owners who more accepting of snowmobiling on their land...dunno...but you're right ...im definitely taking a break from ALL of this..I have more than done my share to help the sport over the last 35 years, and I feel good about that....but it's definitely time for me to move on
SledTL
Active member
You should definitely take some time away to figure out what makes snowmobiling so great. Not sure if its in your cards to be able to travel to other areas in the midwest but try and leave the tourism trap of Vilas and Oneida counties. Go where people are not, and where snowmobiling is not this gigantic political beast where everyone is focused on out of towners. Go to NW wisconsin or come over to MN and I guarantee your opinion of how snowmobiling is still thriving will vastly change.
The migration after covid has changed a lot of areas for the worse. You hear the same thing when traveling to Florida. A lot of people have moved to areas that were special and took some of the characteristics with them that made the areas they move from not as special. My gut feeling is the pendulum will go back the other way as slowly these types of people work their way back to to their old urban/suburban areas where they are more suited. It's hard to live in rural areas if you think you are more important than anyone around you. Who knows.
100%....Covid caused a mass wave of people to move up here....it's insane the amount of people here now...it drove property values through the roof...before we found the house we currently own (which we way over paid for)..we got outbid on 4 other properties...We are not used to traffic up north, other than on the highways Thursday through Sunday, but there is a lot now...half the locals here have no clue how to use a round about lol....and they are adding a couple in the next few years....it's probably rather amusing for city folks to watch...I don't know if the pendulum will ever swing back...I think these folks are here to stay.
SHOOT2KILL
Well-known member
Couple questions just for my personal consumption...WHY is Hwy 86 going west of 39/51 thru town in such horrible condition...2nd...Any particular reason the SILVERADO bar next door to your employer is for sale ?
Airman68
Active member
I've been traveling to northern Wi for a good chunk of the last 40 years. Other than a small stretch when I had my other cabin in Wausaukee. When I was looking for our new place a couple years ago, I couldn't believe the changes. "Busy" does seem to fit the description. We used to spend a lot of time in Minocqua years ago but now, that place is a madhouse. Just not the same. If anyone has looked at the cost of property, it's probably no surprise it is being driven up by outsiders. I mean those with extra ordinary means but really dont contribute to the overall good of the area, more in it for themselves. Nothing against people with money but it seems like it pushed all the average every day folks that did most of the working and living out of the area. Not sure what the answer is but there will be a "correction" at some point and I dont think it will be great.
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hermie
Well-known member
Yes Minocqua has become the Dells of the north. We have talked of selling here in St.Germain and finding something in forest county or maybe go more west to get away from the crowds. We do like it here a lot but it's lost its charm with all the people that are here now. I can remember not long ago you would pull up to a road crossing and be able to get across the road in seconds now there is times you got to try and find a gap in traffic to get across.
pclark
Well-known member
Real estate prices here in MW are insane, we bought our place in 2015 on the chain at a reasonable price, it has tripled in value since. I don't really think there will be a correction on the Manitowish Chain property because there is very little for sale, If someone dies a property might go up for sale but it's sold off a silent sale list before it even hits the market. The old saying "They aren't making anymore of it" is pretty true regarding property on the chain. Off the chain listings are high as well, even just a cabin in the woods will set you back $400k or more for anything decent. I feel I was in the right place at the right time.
Smart money buys on the Cisco Chain imo still have access to WI Northwoods restaurants and big box stores in Ironwood and a lot less people. I bought in Phelps on Spectacle Lake in 2004 while prices were sane 17 miles NE of ER so people need a reason to come there in summer and winter so pretty much unchanged more bang for your buck. But if I was going to buy up north again it would be the Cisco chain always has snow but not too much. As far as snowmobiling Phelps was very nice little traffic ,rolling terrain , access to unplowed FRs and trails in Forest County Brule trails. ER and Saint are nice but way too many people Minoqua is out of the question a zoo in comparison.
I am quite honestly surprised that the sport hasn't died off a little already. The volunteers are an aging group, sleds and equipment are continuing to get more expensive, grooming equipment is now approaching $300k, land owner issues. Nothing about the sport is appealing to a newby. The membership increases that clubs saw with the trail pass was nothing but numbers, with little help. Now those numbers are dwindling. I was involved in every aspect of the sport for 45+ years, but totally stepped aside 3 years ago. Just not interested in doing it anymore. I'm not sure what it will take for the sport to survive. I do believe it will live, but it will definitely take a dive of some sort. It may need what Nascar needs, a step back to it's roots.
pclark
Well-known member
Cisco Chain is a great body of water, it's beautiful up there.
The snowmobile lake trail is picturesque as well.
Everything changes with time and snowmobiling is no different. Technology, Trails, Clubs, all will be challenged. Coupled with urban sprawl, I wonder how long the clubs in low-snow areas will continue to function. There's a lot of competition for time and money and as the folks step away, will the young people step up, I'm sure some will. Change is constant, we may not like it, but it's impossible to escape or ignore.
Let's hope we leave the sport better than the way we found it, that's all we can do.
indy_500
Well-known member
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. “Aging volunteers” is not a problem. Clubs originated mostly in the 70s, and it’s always been the 60-75 yr old crowd that does all the work. Work no longer calls, kids are out of the house. Nothing more a retired avid snowmobiler would love to do than go run a groomer and go mark some trails with all his new found free time. Has been that way for 50 years and I don’t see the average age of snowmobile club volunteers changing anytime soon. Unless of course, the average retirement age goes down, which we all know will NEVER happen.
Landowner issues however, are a big big problem, as is the low snow winters in the southern half of WI, MN, MI, etc. I foresee many small-time clubs merging with bigger ones. Personally, my local town club has given in so to speak to the urban sprawl, and is not interested in finding ways around it. I would love for them to merge with the neighboring, larger club, that is more willing to make things happen.
Landowner issues however, are a big big problem, as is the low snow winters in the southern half of WI, MN, MI, etc. I foresee many small-time clubs merging with bigger ones. Personally, my local town club has given in so to speak to the urban sprawl, and is not interested in finding ways around it. I would love for them to merge with the neighboring, larger club, that is more willing to make things happen.
No idea on Silverado....can't give you an answer on that...but there are plenty of bars for sale in a 60 mile radius...86 is a main route, and many heavy logging trucks use it, so that road gets beat.
BTW ...The Wisconsin Snowmobile registration fee, and trail pass might all be going up...I know the AWSC has asked to raise the rates for more grooming funding (wouldn't be necessary if the DNR applied all of the snowmobile registration money to snowmobile trail maintenance)...Also heard Michigan is trying to raise their trail passes for next year....Did you guys see anything on this? (I'm out of the loop when it comes to Michigan)