Just finished my ground school (Christmas gift from wife) and they offered to take us for a 30 minute flight to see if we wanted to continue on with the actual flight training. So I went on my flight last night assuming it would mostly be sight seeing. Oh no, I actually took off and landed the plane by myself twice. Landing scared the crap out of me but it sure was fun. I think I may have just found a more expensive hobby than snowmobiling.
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Any pilots out there?
- Thread starter elf
- Start date
Just finished my ground school (Christmas gift from wife) and they offered to take us for a 30 minute flight to see if we wanted to continue on with the actual flight training. So I went on my flight last night assuming it would mostly be sight seeing. Oh no, I actually took off and landed the plane by myself twice. Landing scared the crap out of me but it sure was fun. I think I may have just found a more expensive hobby than snowmobiling.
"I think I may have just found a more expensive hobby than snowmobiling."
That you have, fer sure.
If you're going to go on to get your license, I have a few suggestions.
When I was working on getting my Private Pilot Certificate in the mid-1960s, I first started flying with the USAF Aero Club at (click → ) Hamilton AFB, Novato, CA. but I soon learned that the challenges of aircraft and instructor scheduling, combined with my duties at the 24/7 Sixth US Army Data Processing Service Center, at (click → ) Presidio of San Francisco made it a real challenge to make any significant progress in my flight training. When my Army active duty term of service was nearly up, I extended for 9 months, both to stay in the Bay Area long enough to obtain my Private Pilot Certificate (and incidentally, to allow me to attain the rank of Captain (O-3) before ending my active duty assignment).
Having already learned that one hour of flight instruction per week was non-productive (you spend too much time in each session re-learning what you learned the previous week), I shifted my flight training to Petaluma Sky Ranch, now (click → ) Petaluma Municipal Airport (O69), at Petaluma, CA.
I was there on both Saturday and Sunday every week, with an hour of flight training each morning and afternoon, leaving time in between those two sessions for further study of what I had done in the morning session, thereby making the afternoon session more productive without spending much of each session re-learning what I covered in the previous session.
While flight training certainly was not cheap even then, still today a focused and intensive approach to your flight training will take far less time and money in the long run than the "occasional" approach.
I suppose that my learning also benefited from the many nights I spent some years earlier hanging in the FAA Flight Service Station at Houghton County Memorial Airport (CMX), chatting with the Flight Service Specialists and learning the radio communications "jargon".
Once you have that Private Pilot certificate, be prepared for a shock when you discover the rental rate you will be charged to take a rental aircraft on a "trip". Your friendly neighborhood FBO will charge you a minimum number of flight hours for each day you have the aircraft, so if you take a trip to a destination four hours away, and spend several days there, the clock keeps ticking while the aircraft is tied down at your destination!
Of course the cure for that is to buy your own aircraft. Then there's hangar/tie-down rental fees at your home airport, insurance, annual inspections, and other maintenance expenses to deal with. Ca-ching, ca-ching! You may be able to ease that pain by finding two or perhaps three other folks as co-owners, as I did. (However, more than four partners may make aircraft scheduling a challenge.) But choose your partners carefully.
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elf,what type of plane do they use for training? i spent a year and a half studying/training for my private pilot checkride, i have had my license now for a year and try to go flying 3-4 hrs a month. i learned to fly in a piper cub and piper cherokee, i prefer to fly the cub as we use alot of grass strips and taking off and landing a cub from the grass with the side door open smelling the fresh summer air is as thrilling as it gets........more expensive than snowmobiling ah yes, i rent the cub at 95.00 an hour and the cherokee at 105 per hour and have roughly 7000.00 dollars just in geting my certificate. rewarding and satisfying you bet! carry on it can be done!!
any other questions ask away we will try to help
warner
any other questions ask away we will try to help
warner
Elf,
The other thing to consider is having time to maintain your skills. I am not a pilot but my dad is / was. He flew for years, got out of it and about 5 or 6 years ago he went back and started taking lessons for a refresher. Completed his refresher and went off into the wild blue yonder every week to every other week. After a year or so life started getting in the way and flying was again not a priority. After lapsing in his seat time and only flying once a month or so he started getting uncomfortable in the plane, not something you ever want to feel when you are in control of the plane. At that point he gave up flying again with the intent to start again once he retires. I know you have young kids and while flying is a great thing to do with your family, it isn't as much fun when you have to force yourself to do it.
The other thing to consider is having time to maintain your skills. I am not a pilot but my dad is / was. He flew for years, got out of it and about 5 or 6 years ago he went back and started taking lessons for a refresher. Completed his refresher and went off into the wild blue yonder every week to every other week. After a year or so life started getting in the way and flying was again not a priority. After lapsing in his seat time and only flying once a month or so he started getting uncomfortable in the plane, not something you ever want to feel when you are in control of the plane. At that point he gave up flying again with the intent to start again once he retires. I know you have young kids and while flying is a great thing to do with your family, it isn't as much fun when you have to force yourself to do it.
THis is some thing on my radar. I have 2 friends that are also wanting to obtain licenses. We have been tossing around the idea of co owning a plane that we all can use to get our license. It seems to be more cost effective.
I have a grass air strip about 5 miles from my place here in the UP. Hanley Field. I hear it is one of the longest grass air strips in North America. Even cooler wold be to have a plane with floats and land on the lake, and float up to the dock.
I have a grass air strip about 5 miles from my place here in the UP. Hanley Field. I hear it is one of the longest grass air strips in North America. Even cooler wold be to have a plane with floats and land on the lake, and float up to the dock.
elf,what type of plane do they use for training? i spent a year and a half studying/training for my private pilot checkride, i have had my license now for a year and try to go flying 3-4 hrs a month. i learned to fly in a piper cub and piper cherokee, i prefer to fly the cub as we use alot of grass strips and taking off and landing a cub from the grass with the side door open smelling the fresh summer air is as thrilling as it gets........more expensive than snowmobiling ah yes, i rent the cub at 95.00 an hour and the cherokee at 105 per hour and have roughly 7000.00 dollars just in geting my certificate. rewarding and satisfying you bet! carry on it can be done!!
any other questions ask away we will try to help
warner
The place I am going has both a Cessna 172 and a cirrus. I was flying in the Cessna. The rental fee isn't horrible, $69/ hr plus fuel so it comes out to about $100/hr. My challenge is once I spend the 6-7 grand to get the license, will I fly much? Unless you are going to do it for 3-4 hrs a month, I think you'd lose some of your skills. Oh we'll, just have to make the decision if I want to continue.
Interesting article in AOPA May 2013 issue on buying or renting. You may be able to access it online or read it at your local airport FBO if they have a subscription. Anyway, gives a breakdown on the benefits of owning vs renting. It estimates that to own a Cessna 150 (typical trainer) you'd incur fixed cost of 2400 a yr for hangar, ins, and annual. Variable cost of 42 an hr for fuel, oil, engine reserves. Total cost for 70 hrs flt time in a yr of 5340. cost at 100 hrs 6600. a rental cost at 70 hrs of 7000, 100 hrs 10000. This is assuming that the aircraft can be sold for the same cost in a year (no depreciation). A 30 yr old C150 would have very little depreciation over a yr and 100 hrs. Obviously the more you fly an owned aircraft the cheaper the hourly cost would be. Also, something to keep in mind not mentioned in the article would be unexpected maintenance cost so there would be some risk there. I would thing that if you could find a group of 3-4 guys to go in would be ideal. Also consider looking into flying clubs. Usually reduced rental fees after you join in. Hope this helps
Depreciation, and more …
When I and one other partner (as co-owners) bought our PA28-180C in ≈1972 we paid $7200.00 for it.
During the next ≈20 years we had variously three or four co-owners. This made for relatively painless scheduling of the aircraft: We just went down the calendar, and assigned successive weeks (Monday through Sunday) to each co-owner, in rotation. Not that these assigned weeks were inviolate, but it worked out quite nicely: If it was "your week" you could just fly; if you wanted to use the aircraft during any other week, you simply had to coordinate with one person — the nominal "owner" of that week. The scheduling issue will be far more complicated with more than four co-owners, and typically far worse for a "flying club".
Within two years the aircraft needed an engine overhaul (not an unexpected event), which then cost around $2300 - $2500 (Try to get an engine overhaul for a Lycoming O-360-A3A for that price today!). Other than that engine overhaul, we had very few major maintenance issues while we had the aircraft. We also had new paint job and had the interior completely redone somewhere along the way for probably $1800.00 or so, just for appearance.
We sold the aircraft in 1991 for $21,000.00, nearly three times what we originally paid for it! I like that kind of depreciation!
You will find that the value of an aircraft is not so much related to its age, but far more dependent on two big factors: Engine time vs. (click →) TBO, and the list of (click →) Airworthiness Directives applicable to the aircraft and engine and any other installed components, some of which can be very expensive, especially if they involve difficult, recurring inspections and/or expensive fixes. Good points to check for any aircraft you are thinking of buying, too.
When I and one other partner (as co-owners) bought our PA28-180C in ≈1972 we paid $7200.00 for it.
During the next ≈20 years we had variously three or four co-owners. This made for relatively painless scheduling of the aircraft: We just went down the calendar, and assigned successive weeks (Monday through Sunday) to each co-owner, in rotation. Not that these assigned weeks were inviolate, but it worked out quite nicely: If it was "your week" you could just fly; if you wanted to use the aircraft during any other week, you simply had to coordinate with one person — the nominal "owner" of that week. The scheduling issue will be far more complicated with more than four co-owners, and typically far worse for a "flying club".
Within two years the aircraft needed an engine overhaul (not an unexpected event), which then cost around $2300 - $2500 (Try to get an engine overhaul for a Lycoming O-360-A3A for that price today!). Other than that engine overhaul, we had very few major maintenance issues while we had the aircraft. We also had new paint job and had the interior completely redone somewhere along the way for probably $1800.00 or so, just for appearance.
We sold the aircraft in 1991 for $21,000.00, nearly three times what we originally paid for it! I like that kind of depreciation!
You will find that the value of an aircraft is not so much related to its age, but far more dependent on two big factors: Engine time vs. (click →) TBO, and the list of (click →) Airworthiness Directives applicable to the aircraft and engine and any other installed components, some of which can be very expensive, especially if they involve difficult, recurring inspections and/or expensive fixes. Good points to check for any aircraft you are thinking of buying, too.
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Well, talked it over with my wife and I am going to continue the whole program to get my license. She's the one who said "go for it, its always been a dream of yours" Talked to the instructor and think we are going to start with just an hour/week. Maybe more if we can afford it but I still have to pay for a new sled this fall and probably buy a 4 place enclosed trailer. All that and my daughters braces make this an expensive yr!
This may be a dumb question that is sort of on-topic (although I was told there are no dumb questions, just dumb people): Can you fly small planes to places in the northwoods, say that little airstrip in Land O' Lakes, in the winter, or is the potential for weather too much of a factor?
This may be a dumb question that is sort of on-topic (although I was told there are no dumb questions, just dumb people): Can you fly small planes to places in the northwoods, say that little airstrip in Land O' Lakes, in the winter, or is the potential for weather too much of a factor?
"Can you fly small planes to places in the northwoods, say that little airstrip in Land O' Lakes, in the winter …?"
In general, yes — unless the airport is closed. Is it closed? Discovering that is just. a part of your preflight planning.
See AirNav.com, for example.
If you are referring to Kings Land O' Lakes Airport (KLNL), for example, that's no "small" airport; it's open all year, and even has several instrument approaches.
Some airports, such as Prickett-Grooms Field (6Y9), in Sidnaw, MI ARE routinely closed in the winter months.
Of course ANY airport may be temporarily closed due to weather, or whatever, pilots, check your NOTAMS (Notices to Airmen).
"Can you fly small planes to places in the northwoods, say that little airstrip in Land O' Lakes, in the winter …?"
In general, yes — unless the airport is closed. Is it closed? Discovering that is just. a part of your preflight planning.
See AirNav.com, for example.
If you are referring to Kings Land O' Lakes Airport (KLNL), for example, that's no "small" airport; it's open all year, and even has several instrument approaches.
Some airports, such as Prickett-Grooms Field (6Y9), in Sidnaw, MI ARE routinely closed in the winter months.
Of course ANY airport may be temporarily closed due to weather, or whatever, pilots, check your NOTAMS (Notices to Airmen).
By small airport, I just mean not a regular passenger/commercial airport. Sure would be cool to fly a personal plane up to Land O Lakes, and then hop on a sled from there into the UP!
By small airport, I just mean not a regular passenger/commercial airport. Sure would be cool to fly a personal plane up to Land O Lakes, and then hop on a sled from there into the UP!
I'm not sure what your "that little airstrip in Land O' Lakes" could possibly refer to. Kings Land O' Lakes Airport (KLNL) is the ONLY airport of any kind near Land O' Lakes, and it IS "a regular passenger/commercial airport".
Somehow, I don't think we're on the same page. Perhaps you can browse through AirNav.com at the link in my previous message, click on Airports, then Browse by US State for airports.
I'm not sure what your "that little airstrip in Land O' Lakes" could possibly refer to. Kings Land O' Lakes Airport (KLNL) is the ONLY airport of any kind near Land O' Lakes, and it IS "a regular passenger/commercial airport".
Somehow, I don't think we're on the same page. Perhaps you can browse through AirNav.com at the link in my previous message, click on Airports, then Browse by US State for airports.
Ok, I looked it up - I think we're talking about the same airport - I probably just mis-characterized it. I am not a pilot, and the only thing I know about that airport is the snowmobile trail goes by it near the Wisconsin/UP border, and I've often thought it would have been nice to be able to fly up to there rather than drive. I live near Indianapolis, and it's a hike whenever I get a chance to go snowmobiling.
By commercial, I was referring to more large city airports.
t660redrocket
New member
Ontonagon has a great little airport. I think an IFR rating would be wise flying up there in the winter months.
elf, have you been up lately? flying that is.....me and the lil guy are going for a hop tomorrow afternoon in the cub, i like listening to his comments on the intercom while flying low and slow over the country side..one time last fall on a not so smooth landing he comments to me.........thats ok daddy i dont mind the bouncing !! ha good stuff