Arctic Cat Carb vs EFI

[garyl62]

Planning to pick up a used sled in the 2500 - 4500 range and have always been an EFI guy. Plenty sleds out there in my range but if I want to go as new as possible I start to get into the age/miles/size debate on carb vs EFI sleds. Seems like I can always find a 05 to 08 carb machine with 2800 miles or so, but an EFI always has 4000+ miles and is 05 or older.

Looking for some pros and cons on both sides as I don't really have any hands on knowledge of carb machines except back to the earlier days.

 

[mikedrh]

Tastes great, less filling.

Carb; may need to clean after storage, fixed jets won't compensate for temp & pressure, parts are cheap, easy to repair.

EFI; never need to clean, compensates for temp & pressure, failures are rare, exspensive if they do fail.

 

[Hoosier]

Cat's EFI is an older design and I don't think Cat has had any issues with theirs, so unless you are looking at doing other mods, I would think EFI is a no-brainer. The trouble with some of the EFI systems are from the new EPA-compliant sleds that run on very little oil and therefore have a reputation for being more finicky.

 

[garyl62]

What about performance? Lets say a f7 carb vs EFI. What kind of difference is there? We do 90% trail riding all in the UP or N. WI. May go for one day in southern WI if conditions are great but still just on the trail, if you can call going across a corn field a trail.

 

[Hoosier]

What about performance? Lets say a f7 carb vs EFI. What kind of difference is there? We do 90% trail riding all in the UP or N. WI. May go for one day in southern WI if conditions are great but still just on the trail, if you can call going across a corn field a trail.

One guy in our group has a Saberkitty 700 EFI with over 11,000 miles on it. I am not a Cat guy but I think that's the same engine as the F7. No engine issues whatsoever. It isn't better or worse on gas/oil than the carb sleds in the group, but not as good on gas as the Poo EFI's. We ride mostly in the UP or N. Wi, but I rode it a little this year out in Wyoming and it still pulled strong even at altitude. If you ride in the UP or N. Wi., I think you'd like EFI because of the temperature variations. If you are up for a week and ride day and night, you can see temps below -10 and above 50 on the same trip some years. EFI adjusts but carbs don't. I am not a Cat guy, but I think that's an incredible powerplant - reliable and powerful...

 

[dcsnomo]

What about performance? Lets say a f7 carb vs EFI. What kind of difference is there? We do 90% trail riding all in the UP or N. WI. May go for one day in southern WI if conditions are great but still just on the trail, if you can call going across a corn field a trail.

Ahh, but that's not your key issue. Your initial post says you consider "age/miles/size" within a given budget as your key decision point. Clearly EFI has advantages, but one disadvantage is that it loses out on "age/miles/size".

There are a lot of carb sleds out there. They run fine. Yeah, ya gotta choke 'em and clean the carbs each season. But, they win the "age/miles/size" decision, given a fixed budget.

BTW, I just went through this decision process last season. Didn't have to choose though 'cause a buddy caved on his sled and I bought it.

 

[meathead]

Planning to pick up a used sled in the 2500 - 4500 range and have always been an EFI guy. Plenty sleds out there in my range but if I want to go as new as possible I start to get into the age/miles/size debate on carb vs EFI sleds. Seems like I can always find a 05 to 08 carb machine with 2800 miles or so, but an EFI always has 4000+ miles and is 05 or older.

Looking for some pros and cons on both sides as I don't really have any hands on knowledge of carb machines except back to the earlier days.

Garyl62, ive got an 05 cat 600 efi and have 13058 mi till i dropped a track on my last day this year. (ouch but got help from fellow sledders BUT i digrease This sled has bean very very good to me . Seriously i know of other carbed 600 sleds that would like to be there. I AM 61 NEXT WEEK BUT STILL LIKE TO PUT THE HAMMER DOWN, AND THIS TYPE (EFI ) IS MY NEXT SLED ALSO. LITTLE MAINTENENCE LOTS OF POWER AND WORKS FOR ME !!!!! MEATHEAD

 

[garyl62]

Thanks for the replies. I've had a 500 efi and I have enjoyed the quickness and reliability of it and am leaning toward sticking with the efi. Dcsnomo, my age/miles/size debate is that typical, if I want the efi is it worth getting something a year or two older, or 100 smaller, or 2,000 more miles than the carb machine. Like Mikedrh said, its like "tastes great less filling" which do you think is better for you? I knew there was no right or wrong view, but sounds like I just need someone to make me a great deal on a newer, low mile efi, any takers?!!!!!

 

[ezra]

being a cat it had been over 10 yrs the last time I bought a carb sled .well I went out and got a used carb RMK Huge mistake I forgot all about the great fun of tuning for temp and elavation pain in the *** not to mention less responsive but that could just be a pos poo thing.
then comes the spring carb draining 1 more pita.
why not go back to bogie wheels and cleats same technology.you can find many efi cats in your range with way less mi than you are talking about.
I looked last week at a clean 141 m7 with a 1 1/4 track 1900mi got him to 3200 I left it at a 3g offer.
also looking at a 05m7 141 with a 2in challenger 380mi guy got as a hold over rode 1 yr and broke his back going to see in person next week have a tentative 3900 offer standing.
start talking f6/f7 then you can go 2500 bucks all day with under 2500mi

 

[garyl62]

Well I re-read my original post after ezra's comments above and realized I was off on my example of miles, age and cost. I guess I was more interested in if the trade off of a carb machine with lower miles or a little newer was worth giving up the EFI. As I said, I've been and EFI guy and just wanted to hear from some of you. As it turns out, I was able to find the guy selling a sled that fit all my needs. Just picked up an 07 f8 with about 3k miles and stayed in the bottom half of my range. Guess I'll be sticking with the efi for a while!

Thanks everyone!

 

[ezra]

do you work on your own stuff?
if so over the summer I would pull the dimond drive out of that 07 and do a full inspection paying close attention to the 5 pinion planatary.in fact if it were my sled I would replace the 5 pinion with a bdx 5 pinion and prob new bearings http://www.bd-xtreme.com/Maintenancesnowmobile.aspx
if you dont work on them this time of yr BDX may do it for you of speedwerx will rebuild.
I cant stress enough how important a dimond drive inspection is.less than 200 in parts now or well in to a grand when it goes

 

[garyl62]

I'm not overly confident working on my own stuff but will dive in a little. Do have a buddy who is really mechanical and also know a younger guy that works on sleds a lot so they will bail me out if I need help. I'll look into the drive. Saw some other guys posting on the A/C forum about things like a Plowman Mount, changing the y-pipe, doing some clutch work and an issue with the air intake and removing the left air intake block. Any thoughts on those things? One guy was also talking about issues with the skis and changing to bergstrom shims, ski savers and triple carbides, he also talked about removing the rear blocks. Not sure I want to get into all that but I like your idea of doing some work in the summer to head off some more expensive issues down the road when I'd rather be riding and not working on it. What kind of work would you suggest?

 

[Hoosier]

Where did you find this sled for sale? There aren't too many on ebay, and I'm wondering where you are seeing them.

 

[garyl62]

I spent a lot of time on Craigs List. I hit almost every city in MI, IN, IL, WI, IA and MN. There are quite a few out there right now. There is also a site like "sledfinds" I think (google that and you'll get to it) that lists everything for sale regardless of listing site. It isn't really great though as it seems to only pick up the newer listings. Just as an example, it didn't have a sled I was talking to a guy about that he listed on CL in early March in WI. He still has it so if you spend some time on line scrolling through things you'll find them. Good Luck.

 

[ezra]

the most important thing on that sled to do now is the dimond drive inspection.and good or not I would replace the 5 pinon planatary with the BDX. like I stated before it is not if but when is it going to blow apart at 3k you are at that point of worry.
the Dimond drive you have is the most complacated of the dimond drives if the guy has not had a reverse one apart I would ask around till you find a guy who has.not super hard just a lot of parts that can get put in out of order.
the plowman mount is a good thing to have but not mandatory on a more or less stocker I had on on my 1000.
the y pipe is only good for 2 hp on that sled worth the cash only U can decide on that if doing other mods then it makes more power but for stock I would not bother

 

[mjkaliszak]

do you work on your own stuff?
if so over the summer I would pull the dimond drive out of that 07 and do a full inspection paying close attention to the 5 pinion planatary.in fact if it were my sled I would replace the 5 pinion with a bdx 5 pinion and prob new bearings http://www.bd-xtreme.com/Maintenancesnowmobile.aspx
if you dont work on them this time of yr BDX may do it for you of speedwerx will rebuild.
I cant stress enough how important a dimond drive inspection is.less than 200 in parts now or well in to a grand when it goes

I had about 10k of extreme usage on my 07 DD. It was one of the originals with good stuff. The additional Plowman mount mount could be a worthy mod.

 

[garyl62]

so mjkaliszak are you saying you got that much use out of your factory drive or one from bd-xtreme? If the original ones fail like ezra says it seems like a cheap part to replace based on what could go wrong. Also, what does the plowman really do?

 

[ezra]

I had about 10k of extreme usage on my 07 DD. It was one of the originals with good stuff. The additional Plowman mount mount could be a worthy mod.

plain dumb luck I have prob 5 or 6 guys a yr come over and have me work on their drives and teach them a thing or 2 about them.
out of them over 1/2 have a bearing that more or less falls apart in my hand and 1/4 have a stiff or chipped or plain shot planitary gear.
and I have seen 2 that more or less grenade when the planetary locked up at high speed.
the 04/05/06 are great BDX still had control of them then 09 10 11 are more or less same thing as 04 05 06 but with a cheeper bearing on main gear that goes out fast on the 09 10 but with 40 bucks it will run a long time.
BTW if you have a 08 1000 you can dump the heavy reverse drive for a newer 09/11 drive and helix switch 2 wires around on the ECU and have motor reverse.I did it on my 1000 worked sweet
the plowman mount will keep motor from twisting thus also saving the mag side stock mount that is prone to tearing

 

[mjkaliszak]

I did not read the entire thread so lets not jump on me. From my experience the early ones were ok on MY f6. AC had subbed the bearings out to china and then they started to fail. Here is my idea of extreme ( see pic ). Now additionally... i want to disclose that I did not cut the DD short on maintenance. Every year I tore it down, pulled it apart, cleaned , inspected, re-sealed the case w/Three Bond. I also used the AC $$$ high dollar gear juice ( Diamond Drive Fluid ) just because I picked up on a rumor that guys that didn't use it had problems. might he a old sledders tale or whatever... but I also had a hard time way back finding data on how much fliud to use ( 8 oz 12 oz 15 oz ) so it was easier to buy the bottle from cat.

The plowmans mount was developed ( if I remember correctly ) to support the flex between clutches & chassis, this enables getting more torque to the ground ( in a nut shell ) and eliminates problems in the AC design. It was more for the F8 & F1000 where bigger HP was being robbed and lost and there were alignment issues. I opted out for my F6.

From memory, what caused me the most grief was the wiring harness. Some hoople head at the local dealer had closed it up one time and had it in a poor position, the wires started rubbing on one of our week long WUP trips and it had always been a problem and needed checked a couple of times a year. ( after that ). Had the electronics short out one time and had to drive 20-30 miles with no headlight back to camp at night. I ended up working on it at 6:00 AM using my suburban headlights and re-taping all the rubbed wires while it was 5 degrees out.