Bump your Insurance up boys

D.N.R. looking to decrease snowmobile accidents

MARQUETTE -- Ninety percent of snowmobile accidents are speed related, according to the Snowmobile Advisory Council.

In an effort to slow riders down, the D.N.R., surprisingly, is recommending that the number of warning signs on the trails be reduced.

"It's giving the rider the feeling of dependency, where they're dependent on those signs so they'll go faster, they'll also go from sign to sign because they feel more comfortable" says Rob Katona, of the D.N.R.

The D.N.R. argues that the messages of the signs are redundant.

One curve on a trail in Marquette has four warning signs. Which Don Britton, who grooms the trails, says is leading to some reckless sledding.

"A lot of crazy people, people driving by the signs and not by the actual conditions of the trails, curvy, straight, whatever" says Britton.


The D.N.R. recommendations not only ask that the number of signs be reduced, but that they be made consistent throughout the state.

"In addition to some of the duplicate and unnecessary signs, we're going to have some guidance documents to provide to the grant sponsors to more or less give them some guidance to show them where they should be placing the signs, which help with consistency" says Katona.

Under the recommended signage program, regulatory signs would remain unchanged.

If the D.N.R.'s recommendations are approved by the Michigan State Forest Management Team, they could be implemented as early as the 2011-2012 snowmobile season.


Source: http://www.uppermich....aspx?id=584512

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Really? Why can't they just use the same rules that they use for road signs? Dumbest thing I ever heard.
 

united

Active member
That does not seem logical. You would think more signs in a trouble area would reduce accidents. Maybe they should reevaluate how they categorize accidents.

I also have some suggestions to reduce speed (not eliminate accidents) each rider must wear a blindfold during daylight hours and no headlights will be permitted at night. That should reduce speed and (by their reasoning) accidents. Does not make sense. LOL.
 
It is just a way for the DNR not to spend any money on replacing the signs. This is the type of BS all our government offices need to eliminate.
 

jr37

Well-known member
I had heard back in Oct. that this was coming. The DNRs theory may work, or it may not. Either way, I don't think it's a good idea. I'm not sure how removing signs will make the trail safer.

I think the point is that if you know you will not find any signs to warn you of anything, such as curves or dips or water or ice, that you will drive slower. It does make a little sense, just not sure it's the right thing to do.
 

whitedust

Well-known member
DUMB!! If they remove advance stop sign warning signs let's say on Trail 2 East from Watersmeet to Iron River I would blow thru at 45mph or 95mph as lined with pine trees no idea a street is coming up at any speed. Makes no sense. Removing unnecessary stop signs at every driveway would be a good thing & save a few bucks.
 

snowbuff

New member
Define "speed related". You could be going 10mph, around an icey corner, and hit something. They would call that speed related too! In my opinion, they would call that speed related just so they could say it was "speed related". Brings more negitive attention to our sport, which is what they want.
 

jd

Administrator
Staff member
DUMB!! If they remove advance stop sign warning signs let's say on Trail 2 East from Watersmeet to Iron River I would blow thru at 45mph or 95mph as lined with pine trees no idea a street is coming up at any speed. Makes no sense. Removing unnecessary stop signs at every driveway would be a good thing & save a few bucks.

Warning signs like "stop ahead" or "bridge ahead" would not be removed, just the signs like "turn ahead" or "winding trail ahead" and the corresponding chevrons.

Not to start a fight or even say I agree with this idea, but let me ask you this Whitedust: What happens if you rely on these warning signs so much and one is missing for some reason? Seems to me this is exactly why they are proposing to change things, too many snowmobilers relying ONLY on the signs and not riding at a speed in which they can respond to any issue they may have to deal with.

-John
 

whitedust

Well-known member
Warning signs like "stop ahead" or "bridge ahead" would not be removed, just the signs like "turn ahead" or "winding trail ahead" and the corresponding chevrons.

Not to start a fight or even say I agree with this idea, but let me ask you this Whitedust: What happens if you rely on these warning signs so much and one is missing for some reason? Seems to me this is exactly why they are proposing to change things, too many snowmobilers relying ONLY on the signs and not riding at a speed in which they can respond to any issue they may have to deal with.

-John

Nobody can remember every twist & turn in a trail. For me when I see winding trail ahead my thinking is slow down riding fast, moderate or slow if they put the sign up it must really be twisty. My eyes are not as good as the used to be & I used glasses this year & I probably miss a lot of signs already. I don't depend on signs all that much just figure out how the sled is handling on a given day & ride within those parameters. I'm not convinced anybody rides by signs only must be a new thing but I would not remove a sign that helps you ride saftely either.
 

rsvectordude

New member
I don't rely on them anyway. I have all trails GPS'd in Michigan so I can see what way the curves are coming if I really need to. We all drive wheelers and bikes without trail markers, no different but I do see it as being a problem for newbies and novices. It'll be another reason for someone to sue the state and get the trails closed down..
 

arctic

New member
How many of these speed related accidents don't have alcohol involved? You can remove all the signs, put a governor to cap the sled at 50, and you'll still have speed related accidents, especially at night. Alcohol, combined with high horsepower machines, and a 12 ft wide trail is just asking for trouble.

Is there a website that has reports on the fatalities each year for say WI or MI?
 

arctic

New member
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/es/enforcement/safety/snowstats.htm - Current

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/es/enforcement/safety/snowstats10.htm - 2010 Season

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/es/enforcement/safety/snowstats09.htm - 2009 Season

Take a look at these and you'll find a very large portion of them have alcohol involved and it's usually striking an object at high speed.

As you could see in the fatality report, some of those deaths are from people missing corners or reacting too late. IMO, purposefully marking the trails poorly would create more problems than already happen.

The biggest problem of all is alcohol. Don't be over-served and ride or you'll wind up having your life cut short like those in the fatality reports. BE RESPONSIBLE.
 

bobsledder

New member
less signs

I had the privilege of riding almost 900 miles in Minnesota and there are less signs there. The groomers leave or dig big holes near driveways and road crossings and in short order you watch and ride at proper speeds. The speed limit issue is a hot topic for some; however I liked not being passed at ridiculous speeds by trail racers.
Bob
 
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