California's new law

[Admin]

I’m a better mousetrap kind of guy that’s why I have owned all brands of 2s and 4s snowmobiles. I also believe products should be market driven not mandated by state or federal governments. If a superior product is developed I will buy it as long as ROI makes sense to competitive products. Transition to electric vehicles makes sense to me over a period of time that allows the infrastructure and products to mature. The rising price of gasoline currently is the fault of the US government shutting down the Keystone pipeline for 1 was very stupid and then beg OPEC to produce more oil. Same amount of gasoline is being burned with same amount of pollution. Again be sensible regarding energy transitions.

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<br>Keep in mind, most of the 2's and 4's for sale these days are the result of government and state mandates.

 

[old abe]

sure seems like increasing the availability of exports would reduce the price

Unlimited US exports of today, set the price of product forr US consumers. And reduced Domestic product supplies. Thus US consumers are at what ever price export demand dictates. Watch Domestic operational rig counts. Today's world wide oil debacle all started 22 months ago when crude oil went into "Negative" prices as a glut of crude came to be. This as Russia, and Opec intended to shut the US production down.

 

[elf]

When electric cars and pickups and semi tractors are better and cheaper to buy and operate than gas vehicles then the general public will transition. They are already better in some ways. A Tesla Plaid will blow a new Lamborghini away. They are getting cheaper all the time and will continue to do so as more players enter the market and battery tech improves. There are already battery sleds. Yup- they are slow and heavy and don't go very far. But that will all improve. In a few years we will not be snochecking 650s and 850s. We will be snowchecking battery options. No more blowing up two strokes. A great reduction in all moving parts. They will be better than what we have now. Try thinking positive rather than bucking this entire process. The entire world is switching to electric. I for one can hardly wait. And I am not a greenie or a liberal.

<br><br>Can you imagine a 450-500 lb mtn sled with an electric motor. 200+ hp and no loss at elevation. When they get battery life figured out I'll be all over one.<br>
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[whitedust]

<br>
<br>Keep in mind, most of the 2's and 4's for sale these days are the result of government and state mandates.

Yes but the number wasn’t zero for emissions. Only 1 way I know to get to zero emissions is electric for lawn tractors which currently is very expensive and to be honest I haven’t seen any electric tractors at big box stores or local dealers. Imo snowmobiles were never a source of massive air pollution just not enough use and limited number of snowmobile units. Landscapers I know operate business including equipment at very low margins. I don’t know how they stay in business thru this mandate without huge government subsidies. This a monster problem for them.

 

[xsledder]

<br><br>
<br>Keep in mind, most of the 2's and 4's for sale these days are the result of government and state mandates.

<br><br>... and the price of the sleds?  (It would really be hard to prove or disprove without a parallel universe between regulated sleds and non-regulated sleds.)<br>
<br>

 

[eagle1]

All I know is line to get fuel in Grand Maris is long enough.......can't imagine 100's of sleds lined up to get a charge.

 

[Cirrus]

Watch Domestic operational rig counts. Today's world wide oil debacle all started 22 months ago when crude oil went into "Negative" prices as a glut of crude came to be. This as Russia, and Opec intended to shut the US production down.

I see the stuff you post, and most of it's slanted in a particular direction. This comment is as incorrect as most of the garb you post. Do some research, or take a couple of courses in economics to get a clue. Sorry, but some of this crap just pulls me out of the woodwork.

 

[chunk06]

I rode a Zero electric motorcycle this summer and I was very impressed. I was on the throttle a lot having a good time and battery percentage did go down quick. That was the only downfall. Making no noise did make me a bit nervous about animals running out in front of me. Someday when they have charging or battery life figured out i would take a electric sled in a heartbeat.

 

[renegade]

Not to argue, however the Keystone Pipeline would not have provided any domestic fuel, it would have been all for Export. This being due to the fact of all procedures to "Refining" the "Tar Sand" GOOK. It could only be refined on a few Gulf coast refineries due to the waste produced in the refining process. The "reversing" the Gulf Coast pipeline feeding refined products to the Cushing Ok dist. hub, thus it would have increased our Mid Continent fuel prices. Check it out, why does not Canada refine it?

But it still would add to the supply and bring price down regardless of its destination.

 

[old abe]

I see the stuff you post, and most of it's slanted in a particular direction. This comment is as incorrect as most of the garb you post. Do some research, or take a couple of courses in economics to get a clue. Sorry, but some of this crap just pulls me out of the woodwork.

Seems you don't like whats' true, eh.

 

[russholio]

Here we go again. "The truth according to abe".

 

[goofy600]

Here is a question! California has there share of power issues, will treat take away all the generators?

 

[euphoric1]

Yes but the number wasn’t zero for emissions. Only 1 way I know to get to zero emissions is electric for lawn tractors which currently is very expensive and to be honest I haven’t seen any electric tractors at big box stores or local dealers. Imo snowmobiles were never a source of massive air pollution just not enough use and limited number of snowmobile units. Landscapers I know operate business including equipment at very low margins. I don’t know how they stay in business thru this mandate without huge government subsidies. This a monster problem for them.

Yes, the new law mandates ZERO emissions and that means absolutely zero piston powered engines in the categories they are targeting, and as stated in another reply a lot of people are missing the big picture here, what starts in california eventually ends up here as far a emission requirements go. I cant believe they will have the infrastructure in place by the time the law goes into effect, not to mention I thought that state was or is teetering on being broke. Pete we sell a lot of cordless hand held products at my shop, batteries have come a long way but they still have a long way to go to become viable and affordable. We have not sold a cordless rider yet and you will not see one on my show room floor either, I dont know how I would convince the $24,000.00 price tag to someone and convince them they are doing it for the environment, NO WAY. There ais still the fact there are things that battery cannot efficiently or effectively replace piston power on and be affordable. It is also my understanding that these batteries on average lose 10% of their life each year and thats considering they are being maintained/charged properly. Ill keep my piston power thank you.

 

[whitedust]

I searched online for electric tractors and they are out there but mostly small tractors nothing above 42 inches. I have a 46 and was thinking about a 48 to speed up cutting. With the new CA law spreading eastward I think I’ll stay with my 46 see what happens. I really like my Stihl 2s backpack blower don’t think I would give that up easily.

 

[goofy600]

I searched online for electric tractors and they are out there but mostly small tractors nothing above 42 inches. I have a 46 and was thinking about a 48 to speed up cutting. With the new CA law spreading eastward I think I’ll stay with my 46 see what happens. I really like my Stihl 2s backpack blower don’t think I would give that up easily.

New law spreading eastward, is this speculation, or fact? I don’t pay to much attention to news but really have to think it will be quite so time before it makes it to Midwest.

 

[euphoric1]

I searched online for electric tractors and they are out there but mostly small tractors nothing above 42 inches. I have a 46 and was thinking about a 48 to speed up cutting. With the new CA law spreading eastward I think I’ll stay with my 46 see what happens. I really like my Stihl 2s backpack blower don’t think I would give that up easily.

Pete, they make a blower comparable to gas in power but the battery you have to wear on your back is like $900, blowers sre one of those things that battery in my opinion doesn't replace gas

 

[euphoric1]

New law spreading eastward, is this speculation, or fact? I don’t pay to much attention to news but really have to think it will be quite so time before it makes it to Midwest.

Jim, most EPA emission requirements had their beginnings with CARB (California Air Resource Board) its not here yet but once it gains ground rest assured it will be here some day.

 

[goofy600]

Jim, most EPA emission requirements had their beginnings with CARB (California Air Resource Board) its not here yet but once it gains ground rest assured it will be here some day.

So in a quick google search I found CARB put standards in place on small engines in 2003 and it then took the federal EPA until 2011-2012 to start putting the basically the same rules as California and it is going to take them 3 years to get this done so I would think the rest of the US has awhile before suck crap hits here. So hopefully at that time electric becomes better or California falls into the ocean

 

[russholio]

So in a quick google search I found CARB put standards in place on small engines in 2003 and it then took the federal EPA until 2011-2012 to start putting the basically the same rules as California and it is going to take them 3 years to get this done so I would think the rest of the US has awhile before suck crap hits here. So hopefully at that time electric becomes better or California falls into the ocean

Or becomes its own country.

 

[euphoric1]

So in a quick google search I found CARB put standards in place on small engines in 2003 and it then took the federal EPA until 2011-2012 to start putting the basically the same rules as California and it is going to take them 3 years to get this done so I would think the rest of the US has awhile before suck crap hits here. So hopefully at that time electric becomes better or California falls into the ocean

amen to that!