CAP/STEP Revenue Shortfall?

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snobuilder

Well-known member
renegade said:
I don't know how many club meetings or AWSC meetings you guys have attended in the last ten years, but it was also about more volunteers. The idea was modeled after a state out east, can't remember which one exactly, who had great success with it. They flew the president out from that state to speak at a convention, or maybe in Madison, if I remember correctly. You can believe what you want, but cap step is about trying to get new club members and more money. As far as running into "old guard" problems as whitedust referred to im sorry to hear that. But I can say don't expect to join a club and get instant respect. Might have to do some dirty work for a couple years and show up and prove it is going to be a priority for you and not "if I have nothing else to do I will show up and help" type situation. As far as what do the counties do with the money that don't open, they only get paid on what they do. They get paid for marking, brushing, mowing, etc based on man hours and the machines they use.
And if you where in a club, you would know this.
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Your last line did nothing to make someone want to join a club.
 
xsledder

xsledder

Active member
I am new blood in a club and have been President for the last two years and I have to say from first hand experience the "old guard" does get to be a problem (so much so I am not running for President next year). I find most, not all, of the "old guard" to be brash and unaccepting of change of any type. I have personally seen them as the first ones to make someone new feel unwelcome. Their methods might have worked in the seventies, but they are not acceptable any more.
 
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whitedust

Well-known member
xsledder said:
I am new blood in a club and have been President for the last two years and I have to say from first hand experience the "old guard" does get to be a problem (so much so I am not running for President next year). I find most, not all, of the "old guard" to be brash and unaccepting of change of any type. I have personally seen them as the first ones to make someone new feel unwelcome. Their methods might have worked in the seventies, but they are not acceptable any more.
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All Snowmobile Clubs are different & I think you & I know that but some just do not want change of any type right down to will NOT reveal who is on board,who are officers & who are the members of that club. Not saying all clubs are like that but some are very much that way. You can go to club websites and some list officers right there for all to see & release news letters with all members listed. For me I like to know who is who in a club so I can contact them then have lunch or a brew see if we can ride together? When told we just want your money don't ask questions it is time to move on...LOL... Sad but true.... I come away from stuff like that wondering is something shady going on? ....or what the heck are you protecting being soooo scrective? AWSC should have something to say to clubs like that if we they want us to buy WI trail permits from their clubs. AWSC should have think tanks to brain storm how do we change & embrace new members & new ideas. It is a problem for the old guard & they need education to understand that this is a huge problem with some clubs. You can't fix what you can't see sometimes just too close to the problem to see it & understand it. If C/S fails with setting sun this will be one of the causes.
 
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groomerdriver

New member
whitedust said:
All Snowmobile Clubs are different & I think you & I know that but some just do not want change of any type right down to will NOT reveal who is on board,who are officers & who are the members of that club. Not saying all clubs are like that but some are very much that way. You can go to club websites and some list officers right there for all to see & release news letters with all members listed. For me I like to know who is who in a club so I can contact them then have lunch or a brew see if we can ride together? When told we just want your money don't ask questions it is time to move on...LOL... Sad but true.... I come away from stuff like that wondering is something shady going on? ....or what the heck are you protecting being soooo scrective? AWSC should have something to say to clubs like that if we they want us to buy WI trail permits from their clubs. AWSC should have think tanks to brain storm how do we change & embrace new members & new ideas. It is a problem for the old guard & they need education to understand that this is a huge problem with some clubs. You can't fix what you can't see sometimes just too close to the problem to see it & understand it. If C/S fails with setting sun this will be one of the causes.
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Another post that is so full of BS that it's not even funny. Not revealing who are the officers....on purpose? We got your money now move on? If C/S fails this will be one of the causes......? Shady dealings? You are so out of touch with reality it boggles my mind.

There is no doubt there are issues in some clubs. But you make it sound like it's a widespread problem and the system is doomed to failure. Why don't you move 20 miles north into another state so you won't have to put up with all of the issues you claim to know so much about?

I started this thread because of the BS that ddhanna posted....remember?

We have been advised that revenues are way short due to lower than expected trail pass sales along with extended 3yr registration period at the old 2yr price.



This is pure BS spreading and it hurts our sport. As does your post that does nothing but a disservice to the volunteers that make our state trails some of the best in the USA.
 
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whitedust

Well-known member
snobuilder said:
All WD needs to do attend one meeting....The officers will be seated up front and facing the members. ...LOL.
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You would think so right but not at this club. They gloss over stuff ,no voting on issues & after a few meetings like that you wonder what is this all about? Then you think members & officers names will be released later so you wait attend addtional meetings same thing occurs. Then you find out there is a board of directors involved they are voted in make all the club deceisions & why their is no voting at general meetings. So you ask ok please give me names of board, officers & members so I can contact them mainly members so I can contact to have fun on snowmobiles. Told no we don't do that. LOL.... As said I know not all snowmobile clubs are like this but some are. Crazy stuff in my mind but that is the way it was recently and if 1 club like this that is too much imo.

Recently I was talking to VP of another club & he asked about voting at this club I referenced & his club & totally different charter & organization. This kind of stuff does happen & no way to know until you join & attend meetings. Some peeps just pay the dues & permit fees but I will always find out what a club is about donate money or move on depending on what they are about. Lots of clubs out there some are outstanding some not so much but only way to find out is to attend meetings. You might be extremely surprised I know I was.
 
S

snobuilder

Well-known member
A legit not for profit club has to have articles of incorporation and by laws in which the conduct of the club is layed out.
Typically nominations for elected positions such as pres, vice pres., treasurer and secretary have to come from the floor at a regular meeting and then voted on by the members present.

Is your club AWSC affiliated?
 
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whitedust

Well-known member
snobuilder said:
A legit not for profit club has to have articles of incorporation and by laws in which the conduct of the club is layed out.
Typically nominations for elected positions such as pres, vice pres., treasurer and secretary have to come from the floor at a regular meeting and then voted on by the members present.

Is your club AWSC affiliated?
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Must be... processed permit thru them with AWSC number. Seems everything is run thru the board have not seen any ballots yet for anything no voting at any meetings. Believe me I asked for officers, board & members names but not forthcoming will not do it.. never have... never will I'm told. Really seemed strange to me so moving on not all clubs as closed as this one I know. Really old thinking best to leave them alone too much trouble to change them & not here for that here to have fun on snowmobiles with other members & help with trails. After being exposed to this I'm sensitive to others who discusss old guard problems in their clubs. It happens & is real.
 
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whitedust

Well-known member
GD we are discussing some problems with old guard attitudes that does exist in some clubs. Ingnoring the problem does not help. What I call sharing you call bitching and & again we should agree to disagree. It is obvious others have had the same problem so no harm in discussing it imo. As I said repeatedly I know there are some outstanding clubs that are well organized & wide open to new ideas then their are some that are very close minded. I join, I attend meetings, I sort things out, I then donate money to help a sport I luv. If the club is guarded & closed without reason none of my money going there. All clubs are different no doubt about that & I encourage all peeps joining clubs to attend a few meetings see what is going on don't just send the WI Permit money in & not check things out. If a member wants to wade in to change things good for them but not my intention I'm there for fun & to help if not a fit for me no biggie moving on.
 
G

groomerdriver

New member
whitedust said:
GD we are discussing some problems with old guard attitudes that does exist in some clubs. Ingnoring the problem does not help. What I call sharing you call bitching and & again we should agree to disagree. It is obvious others have had the same problem so no harm in discussing it imo. As I said repeatedly I know there are some outstanding clubs that are well organized & wide open to new ideas then their are some that are very close minded. I join, I attend meetings, I sort things out, I then donate money to help a sport I luv. If the club is guarded & closed without reason none of my money going there. All clubs are different no doubt about that & I encourage all peeps joining clubs to attend a few meetings see what is going on don't just send the WI Permit money in & not check things out. If a member wants to wade in to change things good for them but not my intention I'm there for fun & to help if not a fit for me no biggie moving on.
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So call Tom and talk to him about the Phelps club. And go join Frosty like you said you were going to.
 
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whitedust

Well-known member
GD ..Told you numerous time I'm not there for that I'm there for fun on snowmobiles with like minded peeps & help with trails. If you want to take to a higher level have at it but not right for me at this time in my life. GD everyone is different no 1 life box for all to live in. Many different types of people that make up clubs & how they are orgainized. Again interesting that some are so private & closed certainly surprised me. Again I encourage everyone to join & attend meetings see what is going on. Should they get more involved?... well completely up to them some will ...some won't. This club the answer is no for me too much effort to change and zero interest in that endeavor. Frosty indeed looks interesting to me seems to be a better fit but plenty of of time to check things out and not burn bridges as not my style to blow up & leave in a huff or tattle on them to AWSC.
 
G

groomerdriver

New member
whitedust said:
GD ..Told you numerous time I'm not there for that I'm there for fun on snowmobiles with like minded peeps & help with trails. If you want to take to a higher level have at it but not right for me at this time in my life. GD everyone is different no 1 life box for all to live in. Many different types of people that make up clubs & how they are orgainized. Again interesting that some are so private & closed certainly surprised me. Again I encourage everyone to join & attend meetings see what is going on. Should they get more involved?... well completely up to them some will ...some won't. This club the answer is no for me too much effort to change and zero interest in that endeavor. Frosty indeed looks interesting to me seems to be a better fit but plenty of of time to check things out and not burn bridges as not my style to blow up & leave in a huff or tattle on them to AWSC.
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So make a positive contribution to the sport and take all this to the other thread I started.
 
R

renegade

Active member
Not trying to get anyone to join a club. Do what you want. But most of the questions brought up on this thread you would know the answers to if you where an active member. In fact thread would of not got started if the original poster was a club member. In fact some of the anti cap step posters remind me of the old guard described on here. Don't want anything new and nothing to change.
 
ddhanna

ddhanna

Active member
renegade said:
Not trying to get anyone to join a club. Do what you want. But most of the questions brought up on this thread you would know the answers to if you where an active member. In fact thread would of not got started if the original poster was a club member. In fact some of the anti cap step posters remind me of the old guard described on here. Don't want anything new and nothing to change.
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FYI, GD was the original poster who was re-posting my stuff. I would have preferred he not use my stuff to start a topic, but it's a free country. I am quite active in my club and volunteer somewhere around 4-500 hours per year in various capacities. Retiree trying to give back to the sport... The information, good or bad, was sourced from a monthly county meeting where it is common to try to forecast the supplemental pro-rate based on many factors. I take particular interest in the financial aspect as I am also treasurer and currently deep into long term forecasting in the interest of major capital expenditures for the club. Like anywhere on the internet, some people here can twist and/or misinterpret things to the point where you just want to keep your mouth shut. Very frustrating!
 
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S

snobuilder

Well-known member
ddhanna said:
FYI, GD was the original poster who was re-posting my stuff. I would have preferred he not use my stuff to start a topic, but it's a free country. I am quite active in my club and volunteer somewhere around 4-500 hours per year in various capacities. Retiree trying to give back to the sport... The information, good or bad, was sourced from a monthly county meeting where it is common to try to forecast the supplemental pro-rate based on many factors. I take particular interest in the financial aspect as I am also treasurer and currently deep into long term forecasting in the interest of major capital expenditures for the club. Like anywhere on the internet, some people here can twist and/or misinterpret things to the point where you just want to keep your mouth shut. Very frustrating!
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No need to get into your in depth long term forecasting....you brought up a good topic and it will be a great topic for a long time to come.
 
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G

groomerdriver

New member
ddhanna said:
FYI, GD was the original poster who was re-posting my stuff. I would have preferred he not use my stuff to start a topic, but it's a free country. I am quite active in my club and volunteer somewhere around 4-500 hours per year in various capacities. Retiree trying to give back to the sport... The information, good or bad, was sourced from a monthly county meeting where it is common to try to forecast the supplemental pro-rate based on many factors. I take particular interest in the financial aspect as I am also treasurer and currently deep into long term forecasting in the interest of major capital expenditures for the club. Like anywhere on the internet, some people here can twist and/or misinterpret things to the point where you just want to keep your mouth shut. Very frustrating!
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Had you stated your sources in your original post maybe I wouldn't have started this thread.

It's OK to be against CAP/STEP and I'm on record that my jury is still out on it. But when you say this:

We have been advised that revenues are way short due to lower than expected trail pass sales along with extended 3yr registration period at the old 2yr price.

And you don't say who "we" is nor the general identity of those who told you this is, it's going to raise questions. This is a serious allegation that can spread like wildfire on the internet.

I thank you for your many hours of service to the greatest sport in Wisconsin! :)
 
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