Diesel / Kerosene Mix up

So a friend of mine (NOT ME) just bought a Jeep Liberty deisel and may have put 18 gallon of kerosene in the tank. He drove it about 80 mile that way and it runs but will not rev out. At the time he was not a wear that kerosene may have been added to the fuel tank so he took it in to the deal to have it looked at and they figured it out, they now want $1000 to pull the tank and clean the lines and change the filters it seem a little steep to me. My recommendation to him was to drain remove as much kerosene as he can get out and add deisel fuel and change the filters in a week or so if it running OK. Any thoughts on this would be help full.
 

tyeeman

New member
I'd say the thing he has going in his favor is that at least the kerosene is oily and lubriciouse. I would agree with you, suck as much as he can out of the tank, probably even change filters right away and fill up with a good winter blend. Not sure how kerosene burns in an engine but if it were me I would also add a diesel fuel additive like a cetane boost to bring back some of the powre for this tank. Maybe want to go a little easy when driving on this tank.
I would bet he didn't ruin anything. A least it's not gasoline in the tank.
 

booondocker

New member
These fuels are in the same family and though the diesel fuels have more additives and lubricants and contain more sulfur, in a pinch you can use them.

It will jell out faster...so he better not be trying to use it in the cold...not sure I would bother draining the tank, just add to it with some good diesel and an additive into the tank and then go for an easy drive. Depending upon the quality of the kero, he might be wise to change out filters after the tank run down.

Otherwise...not sure it is worth the 1k to do all of the preventative stuff. Buys a lot of diesel.
 

dab102999

New member
yea do it yourself for sure. Don't worry about all the pull lines crap. Just suck out as much as possible and fill with diesel and add some anti jell. After a couple of tanks change filter and good to go. As stated above same family just jells easier.

On a different note, I once stopped for fuel and all diesel pumps (3 of them) had premium diesel on one side and regular diesel on the other except the pump I grabbed had premium diesel on one side and reg gas on the other. Well you see where this is going and I didn't realise it until had about 30 gallons in. I was lucky enough to be close enough to home that my dad came and pulled me without starting it. Out life long neighbor who is a fuel oil delivery man came over and gave advice. bacially in a nutshell diesels run off of compression and not spark. So if it compressos and fires it will fire. Where the problem is that the injectors and pump will not get lubed. He told me I could have drained off 1/2 the gas, filled with diesel and ran. Stopping every day and topping off with diesel and been alright. I was to chicken to try this and drained as much as I could and filled with diesel and never had a problem with it.
 
Skeeter2010,

Not sure why these guys think that KEROSENE will gell up before diesel. That's just NOT true. Kerosene has been used for YEARS by the trucking industry to "CUT" or blend with diesel fuel in the winter time to help PREVENT against gell-ups! The only reason it is not commonplace anymore is because of the fricken goverment and their taxes.

These guys are giving you some bad information.

Anyhow, as for your kerosene "problem". It's really no big problem at all. If it were gasoline, then you'd have a "problem". But it's not.
----------------------------------

So, for piece of mind, just do this:

There's no need to remove your fuel tank or lines or any of that nonsense. Truth is, you DON'T need to replace your fuel filter(s) either, although it couldn't hurt. New fuel filters are cheap, compared to everything else.

- Take your feed line from the fuel tank to the fuel filter housing and disconnect it. (I'm assuming that your lift pump or feed pump is in the fuel tank on this vehicle?)
- Put the line into a bucket/can.
(You will probably need a few different gas cans based upon how much fuel you plan on removing.)
- Find the fuel pump relay in your power distribution box. You will need a paper clip (or jumper wire). Put the paper clip from the terminal that is hot (with the ignition key turned to the "ON/RUN" position) to the terminal that feeds the fuel pump. The fuel pump in the tank will turn on and start pumping fuel from the fuel tank. This will be a somewhat slow process, but it works mint!

If you can't figure out which terminals to use the jumper on, then do this... Take a test light (they're available at ANY auto parts store if you don't have one), and find the terminal that is "hot". Then, take your paper clip and lightly brush each terminal (there's likely to be 3 or 4 of them) in the group where the relay that you removed was. When you hear the pump in the tank kick on, that's the correct terminal. Shove the paper clip into the "hot" terminal and the "to fuel pump" wire terminal.

- Ok, once your fuel tank has pumped down to a reasonable amount, pull the jumper wire, replace the fuel pump relay back into it's slot, and re-attach your fuel line. Now is the time to change your filters if you are going to bother with that. Ok, now 5 gallons of diesel fuel in your tank. Go to the gas station and fill your tank up with DIESEL FUEL. Throw a bottle of diesel fuel conditioner in there if you feel like it also.

You're all done - no more worries! No harm done.
-------------------------------

Another thing you can do is NOTHING. Honestly!

Just fill the tank back up with diesel fuel and continue to run it. When it gets low again, fill it up with diesel again. The low power "problems" should go away once you've burned off the kerosene. Kerosene does NOT have as many BTU's as diesel does when burned, thereby producing a lower power output.
 

redrat75

New member
It will be fine! I was an aircraft and power plant mechanic for 10 years. There were several mechanics that would run the Jet A drain fuel in there deisel cars and trucks with no problems. Jet A is the same as Kerosene there cars trucks ran a little rougher and did not get as good as milage but they did not care because it was free. We would also run the Jet A in a Case tractor when it would run out of deisel. I would just add deisel fuel to it and run it.
 

redrat75

New member
Ya that was the good old day before lay offs and contracting MTC came along. I just could not due that because of having a family. I need health insurance! So it on the bigger and better thing now.
 

ezra

Well-known member
I would run kerosene in a old suburban yrs ago in the summer when I went buy a station buy my house that sold it with no road tax. I sold that truck with over 300k on it about 1/3 of the fuel run in it was kerosene
 

booondocker

New member
I would run kerosene in a old suburban yrs ago in the summer when I went buy a station buy my house that sold it with no road tax. I sold that truck with over 300k on it about 1/3 of the fuel run in it was kerosene

K1 kerosene is a low-sulfur kerosene that is made for use in space heaters, lamps, etc. - and not for use in vehicles or generators. It is also not taxed so would be illegal to use in "on-road" vehicles.

Lower lubricity is likely as the viscosity decreases. While this may not cause catastrophic instant damage, it could cause long-term wear of pumps, etc, etcFour semi-annual surveys for years 1990-1992 showed national averages as such for viscosity (represented in milliPascal-seconds (mPa . s)(=centipoise) cSt)

Diesel # 1 1.33
Diesel # 2 3.20
Kerosene 1.63

Both Kerosene and Diesel # 1 are less dense than Diesel # 2 and will thus have a slight reduction (~3%) in BTU per gallon. This would likely be reflected in lower fuel economy.


http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/FAQ/diesel_fuel.htm

Seems you might have dodged a bullet on that one Ezra, never mind poor fuel economy.

Turbo is right....kero comes off the distilling process first...not last, and therefore is lighter and LESS apt to jell than diesel...my mistake.
 
Yep, good points boondocker...

I'm not promoting the running of straight Kero. That's not wise, as was already discussed. But running a "blend" will not hurt anything, especially in the winter, when it will only help you out.

Another thing that sucks is the fact that they (our wonderful government) have FORCED people to only be able to buy Ultra-Low Sulfur diesel fuel now. The ultra-low sulfur content in today's diesel fuel also causes a decrease in lubricity. It has enraged the Diesel powered vehicle owners across the nation.

You see, our government doesn't give a damn if our trucks and farm tractors wear out quicker and are less efficient - thereby costing US, average Joe's a fortune over time. They only care about pleasing the "go-green" environmentalists and lining their own pockets with lots of "green".

Anyhow, off my soap box. There's nothing anyone can do about it at this point, except keep pissing away our money on expensive additives, or risk premature wear of our diesels.

Last time I checked, our farm (off-road) diesel still had sulfur in it, although I'm sure that will be changing in due time, if it hasn't already. It's not "legal" to run in our pickup trucks anyhow, due to lack of TAXES on it. Yeah... well whatever. Wink, wink! ;-) I've been adding sulfur and anti-gel additives to our bulk tank for years now. Can't trust the government or the fuel companys anymore.

BTW, if you ever run into gelling issues with your diesel, (you'll know it if you ever experience that - talk about LOW or NO power - LOL!) dump in a bottle or 2 of "911" from Power Service (that stuff works wonders) and then also cut your fuel with some kerosene. Don't worry about "the law". It's much more important to make your truck run and function! Besides that, most all fuel inspections are done on heavy duty trucks (tractor-trailer trucks and the like) and are particularly performed by the authorities on major highways and interstates.
 

ezra

Well-known member
like I seed I was allot younger like maybe 20 or so at the time did not worry about things like getting caught not paying road tax.or did I pay attention to millage.At the time I was running heavy equipment usually far from home hotel living stuff . on Fridays the boss would say he was taking off early and tell the guys not to forget to lock up the diesel tank when every one was full.prob a few felonies between dye diesel and kerosene than goodness for statue of limitations.
 

jay

New member
Kerosene Is the same as #1 diesel. All on road diesel is ultra low sulfur. Winter blend is a mix of #1 and #2 Depending on the temp. #1 has a lower gel point. You are not going to hurt it. If you are worried I would run it down part way and put diesel back in. As a truck driver I would not be worried . And I would not pay big bucks to take it out.
 

renegade

Active member
Not only would I run it, I would go back to the dealer, (hopefully it is not where he bought it) and give them a piece of my mind,not that it would accomplish anything. I would be willing to bet the repair bill they would fill it with diesel, park in in the lot for two days and call and say it is finished. Any dealer who sells a diesel should know better than this, and this is exactly why I will not buy from a dealer again. If it makes him feel better, tell him to top off with good ole number 2 every day and maybe add a additive for lubricity.
 
Yeah, 'cept going back to the dealer won't get you anywhere. (Like renegade said, it would only make you "feel better" in the short term.)

Regardless, I'd say save your fuel and time. Sounds like that dealer is pretty crooked to me. I'd stay far away from them, and perhaps share my "stupid story" with others so that they too will stay away from that dealer.

Good to see that Chrysler dealers are still continuing the tradition of screwing their customers at every turn. Makes me wonder why I still own Dodge trucks??? Oh yeah, 'cause I still swear by the Cummins diesels and also because I never take any of my vehicles back to a dealer.

LOL
 
Kerosene Is the same as #1 diesel. All on road diesel is ultra low sulfur. Winter blend is a mix of #1 and #2 Depending on the temp. #1 has a lower gel point. You are not going to hurt it. If you are worried I would run it down part way and put diesel back in. As a truck driver I would not be worried . And I would not pay big bucks to take it out.


Kerosene is NOT the same as #1 diesel. They are similar, but NOT the same. Not sure where you got that idea from. Do your research.
 

jay

New member
Kerosene is NOT the same as #1 diesel. They are similar, but NOT the same. Not sure where you got that idea from. Do your research.

I do not have to do my research. I call it the same you call it similar. Both ways you can run on it. Fuel 101 by Richmond Laney
The difference beween Diesel Fuel and kerosene

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The differences between Kerosene, jet fuel, #1 Fuel oil, #2 Fuel oil, heavier fuel oils, gasoline, etc. are the types of hydrocarbon chains that are separated and concentrated during refining and additives. For example gasoline has an octane rating which compares the gasoline blend with the performance of pure
octane hydrocarbon with eight carbon atoms. Diesel has a septane rating, please note that septane has seven carbon atoms in its chain. Octane rating is how hard it is to ignite and septane rating how easy it is to ignite.
What this all means is that the heavier fuels have longer hydrocarbon chains, higher BTU content, are thicker and are more tolerant of contamination (also they are allowed to contain more sulfur).

K-1 Kerosene, #1 diesel, and jet fuel (JP4) are closely related to each other. #1 and JP4 have higher allowable sulfur than K-1 (kerosene is also called coal oil by old timers). Since #1 is a shorter hydrocarbon blend it has better solvent properties than #2. (We used to clean out our armored vehicle engine compartments with diesel fuel in the Army, also gasoline used to be sold as petroleum naphtha as a cleaning solvent before it became a motor fuel.) It also has a lower gel point, which means that it takes a colder temperature to turn it to a molasses like thickness. Because these fuels are blends they don't
freeze like water, they act more like Jell-O slowly getting thicker until they set. This is why in cold climates it is suggested that #2 be blended with kerosene to keep it from gelling to soon. (Mercedes suggests using up to 30% gasoline in very cold climates).

In the US fuel oils are blended according to climate and location and there are also additives that control gel point, contamination (like water), change the flash point, to identify different uses (dyes) etc.

There is no real benefit to using kerosene /#1 over #2 unless you need to because of cold temperatures or you just want to clean out your system. If you switch to #1 please change your fuel filter to avoid clogging from any gunk removed. As it has been pointed out #2 has the higher heat (BTU) content.
 
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attack_06

New member
filters

change them 1 or2 times a year low sulfer plugs qwicker what fuel u use shouldent matter nothing goes thru clogged filters even kerosene
 
Jay,

It appears you copied your excerpt from this "Richmond Laney" fella, that I'm guessing perhaps you have a text book from?

Regardless, we agree for the most part.

Just wanted to mention one thing, in diesel fuel, it's called CETANE, not SEPTANE. (Septane is not even a recognized word in the English dictionary.) It is an erroneous word that is affiliated only to the word Heptane (C7H16), which has 7 hydrocarbons, and is used in conjunction with fuel octane ratings. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Heptane

Anyhow no biggie, but just thought I'd point that out.

Take 'er easy...
 
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