Driving myself insane deciding on a new tow vehicle

[G]

DamageInc is probably one of the better researched members on this site. If he says the steel is thinner I have no reason to doubt him. There are a lot of opinions and BS expressed -myself included- but Mr Damage runs on facts. Truly rare. That said, find me any product that is not built cheaper than it used to be. Everything from pickups to boats to refridgeration equipment to dishwashers to washers and dryers - nothing is built to last. A lot of stuff isn't even made in the continental US anymore. I just bought some new display cases for my store. Made in Mexico. Stuff is engineered to use as little material as possible to cut costs. Steel is expensive as is aluminum and everything else. The almighty dollar dictates that we are left with junk. It isn't going to change anytime soon either.

 

[Admin]

DamageInc is probably one of the better researched members on this site. If he says the steel is thinner I have no reason to doubt him. There are a lot of opinions and BS expressed -myself included- but Mr Damage runs on facts. Truly rare. That said, find me any product that is not built cheaper than it used to be. Everything from pickups to boats to refridgeration equipment to dishwashers to washers and dryers - nothing is built to last. A lot of stuff isn't even made in the continental US anymore. I just bought some new display cases for my store. Made in Mexico. Stuff is engineered to use as little material as possible to cut costs. Steel is expensive as is aluminum and everything else. The almighty dollar dictates that we are left with junk. It isn't going to change anytime soon either.

I am going to have to disagree with this, or at least editorialize. There are top quality items in almost every category of products out there. Tools, electronics, clothing...You just have to be willing to look and then pay for them. I personally think the pickup trucks made these days are far better than the ones of old, from any era. Put one of those made in the 70's, 80's or 90's on today's roads with the winter treatments they use and they will be a pile of rust in under 3 years!

The old saying "You get what you pay for" is probably more prevalent now than it ever has been. Or maybe it should be "buy cheap, get cheap".

-John

 

[G]

I believe in the 'you get what you pay for theory' too. However there getting to be more and more products that one does not even have the option to spend more to get more. Or old reliable products that used to be good no longer are. Like Craftsman tools. As far as electronics nobody fixes anything anymore. When your 60 inch TV quits you just go buy a 80 incher. For less money than you paid for your 60 five years ago. And when your new 80 incher dies in 5 years you go out and buy a new 100 incher for less than you paid for the 80 incher. Electronic stuff does not have to last very long because there is something new coming out every day. Phones are a good example. You buy your phone on a two year plan and in two years you get a new phone that is ten times better than your old phone. Ask a farmer about keeping a 5 year old tractor going when the all the warranty is gone on the electronics. The tractor might be mechanically sound but the computer wont let it move until some defective sensor gets diagnosed and replaced. And a lot of times the techs don't know which board or sensor to replace so they just keep plugging them in until they stumble on the defective one. And there are no returns on opened electronics. So - yes - the new stuff is better when it works. But there is so much more to go wrong. Weather extremes are also hard on electronics.

 

[mrbb]

personal;ly I do think some things are made better and some are not

but what I really think is, most ALL makers of about anything, have enough data and testing and ways to determine HOW long something will last, that they tend to only make things to make it past a warranty, after that, they could care less and IMO, even design things to start to fail,. knowing when this or that will wear out!
the name of the game in business is sell MORE< , making anything last too long , isn;t good for business!
and as far as I am concerned, most ALL things today are overpriced for what they are, the cost to make things is silly as to what they sell for!
ain't NO way IMO, any pickup truck made today is worth a 100 grand, yet so many can be in that range when you add gadgets and even stripped down trucks are way over kill for what you get , they self destruct in time, use or not, things fail on them!
lack of fear of folks to finance there lives away drives prices Up IMO too!

 

[hudson056]

had a strong east wind yesterday so I hooked up the new trailer to do a test run (with a cross wind, and 3 sleds in the trailer), and holy sh*t, my half ton knew that trailer was back there for sure, that would have been sketchy on the interstate at 70mph.

 

[DamageInc]

I am going to have to disagree with this, or at least editorialize. There are top quality items in almost every category of products out there. Tools, electronics, clothing...You just have to be willing to look and then pay for them. I personally think the pickup trucks made these days are far better than the ones of old, from any era. Put one of those made in the 70's, 80's or 90's on today's roads with the winter treatments they use and they will be a pile of rust in under 3 years!

The old saying "You get what you pay for" is probably more prevalent now than it ever has been. Or maybe it should be "buy cheap, get cheap".

-John

New trucks are better in many ways, but not in every way. I don't consider thinner frames and sheet metal to be an improvement (driven by CAFE standards), nor the crappy paint that chips easily (the EPA put limits on VOC emissions that forced them to change paints). And don't get me started on the cylinder deactivation, which of course is driven by CAFE, adding lots of cost, complexity, and problems, with very little benefit. But the new trucks certainly ride better, have more comfortable interiors, get better fuel economy, and have more power. That's why I still buy a new truck every 3-5 years.

It is getting tough to buy high quality, for some products. I bought a new washing machine a couple years ago, and spent extra to get a Speed Queen, which was supposed to be "top of the line". It still broke down within two years, and it took over a month to get a repair guy out to the house. Yeah, the repair was free, but it's not fun going without a washing machine for a month. Next time I'll buy a budget washer, and throw it away when it breaks down.

 

[G]

Disagree on fuel mileage advances. In 1977 my Chev 350 got 13 mpg. My 2015 Ford V8 5 liter gets about 15 mpg. 38 years for 2 more mpg is a joke.

 

[DamageInc]

Disagree on fuel mileage advances. In 1977 my Chev 350 got 13 mpg. My 2015 Ford V8 5 liter gets about 15 mpg. 38 years for 2 more mpg is a joke.

Don't forget that your 2015 has roughly double the horsepower of that 1977, and that horsepower isn't free. My 2016 with 5L and 3.31 averaged about 17-18 in daily mixed driving, and 20ish with the cruise set at 75. But it could get 24 mpg if I set the cruise at 55 with no headwind. That's pretty impressive for a 385-horse pickup truck, and they did it without any cylinder deactivation. Part of that efficiency is obviously from the light weight of the aluminum body.

Half-ton trucks in the 70s and 80s were nowhere near that efficient. They usually got 13-14 on the highway, and couldn't tow nearly as much. The newer trucks are also a lot more fun to drive.

 

[euphoric1]

New trucks are better in many ways, but not in every way. I don't consider thinner frames and sheet metal to be an improvement (driven by CAFE standards), nor the crappy paint that chips easily (the EPA put limits on VOC emissions that forced them to change paints). And don't get me started on the cylinder deactivation, which of course is driven by CAFE, adding lots of cost, complexity, and problems, with very little benefit. But the new trucks certainly ride better, have more comfortable interiors, get better fuel economy, and have more power. That's why I still buy a new truck every 3-5 years.

It is getting tough to buy high quality, for some products. I bought a new washing machine a couple years ago, and spent extra to get a Speed Queen, which was supposed to be "top of the line". It still broke down within two years, and it took over a month to get a repair guy out to the house. Yeah, the repair was free, but it's not fun going without a washing machine for a month. Next time I'll buy a budget washer, and throw it away when it breaks down.

DamageInc, I agree with you completely, but with your last sentence "next time I'll buy a budget washer, and throw it away when it breaks down" that thought is exactly why we have such a throw away product driven world, it is the average consumer which has driven todays manufacturers of many products we use to engineer products in this way, sad but true, nobody wants to pay for anything good anymore or it would just cost way too much to build something that does, which I just don't understand.

 

[DamageInc]

DamageInc, I agree with you completely, but with your last sentence "next time I'll buy a budget washer, and throw it away when it breaks down" that thought is exactly why we have such a throw away product driven world, it is the average consumer which has driven todays manufacturers of many products we use to engineer products in this way, sad but true, nobody wants to pay for anything good anymore or it would just cost way too much to build something that does, which I just don't understand.

That's just it, I did pay more (for higher quality, supposedly), and I still got a piece of junk that broke down in two years. I would have been better off buying the disposable junk. If I'm paying double the price, it better last. My last washer was an Amana "commercial" that lasted nearly 20 years. It seems that they don't build them like that anymore, even if you pay more.