E-15 Test results for sled motors.

polarisrider1

New member
Test Results Released on E-15 Fuel Impact on Snowmobiles

Haslett, MI, September 19, 2013: The US Department Of Energy (DOE) released a study conducted by Michigan Technological University which was designed to evaluate the effects of E-15 fuel on current and legacy snowmobile engines and vehicles. Three test scenarios were conducted to evaluate the impact of E-15 including cold-start performance and emissions; snowmobile drivability; and laboratory exhaust emissions over the useful life of the engine. Eight engines were tested over a two year period. The vehicles were tested in the laboratory and on the trail in real life driving conditions.

The conclusion of the testing by the DOE is that E-15 fuel is NOT approved for snowmobile use. Observations made during the study support the US EPA’s decision to NOT APPROVE E-15 fuel for snowmobiles.

The testing was conducted since E-15 fuel is being introduced into the marketplace and is viewed by some as an important fuel enabling the United States to achieve the goals of the Reformulated Fuel Standard passed by the US Congress.

Ethanol is being produced throughout the United States. Ethanol producers use corn, switch grass, and other related plant products in the production of ethanol. It is the directive of the present administration that 13.8 Billion Gallons of ethanol be produced and distributed in the marketplace. The goal is challenging because US Gasoline consumption is declining rapidly.

Since it appears the E-15 fuel will be made more readily available throughout the United States, it is important that owners of snowmobiles and of other gas-powered products realize that E-15 fuel may impact on the various engines.

The 69 page study highlights that one of the key issues related to snowmobiles is that exhaust gas temperatures and muffler exit temperature consistently increase with the use of E-15 fuel. The increased temperatures range from 15 to 40 percent, depending on the vehicle. This rise in temperature occurs because of the leaner air – fuel mixture.

Since it has been recommended that E-15 not be approved for snowmobile use by the EPA, there is concern in the marketplace that mis-fueling of snowmobiles can occur. Recent surveys show that approximately 50% of all Americans fill up their portable gas tank or vehicles that they are towing with the same fuel used to fill their tow vehicle (car or truck). Also approximately 2/3 of all Americans say that they assume that any gas sold at a gas station is safe for all of their vehicles – including snowmobiles, generators, boats, etc. Approximately 50% of Americans check the fuel pumps for warning labels when filling up their vehicles.

With various fuels entering the marketplace, it is more important than ever that customers carefully read any and all labels on gas dispensing pumps and understand the guidance messages placed on those pumps.

It should be noted that E-85 fuel has been available in the marketplace for many years. E-85 is a blend of fuel which is designed to be used in flex-fuel equipped cars and trucks only. E-85 is 85% ethanol. It should NOT be confused with E-15 which is 15% ethanol. E-10 fuel is 10% ethanol and has been available and used throughout the United States for years and is approved for snowmobile use.

The conclusion of the testing by the DOE is that E-15 fuel is NOT approved for snowmobile use.
 

whitedust

Well-known member
I'm sure some people didn't know me I always use 100% gas when available. Hate the corn gas for any engine!
 

coldbear

New member
Yea Whitedust...... but where does one find 100% gasoline in the U.P.? I lost a 800 top end because of available fuels. The carbs were cleaned before the trip. Agreed, the Government Einsteine's that figured that corn test are probably laughing their a$%'s off.
 

polarisrider1

New member
Most the pumps in Michigan are not clearly marked. The Kid running the register don't know what they are selling you either. Not sure if there is a truth in labeling law for gas???? Be nice to know what we are really getting.

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look what I found! www.fuel-testers.com/state_guide_ethanol_laws.html

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90% of gas contains ethanol. WOW! and most of it has up to 10% without labelling it.
 
L

lenny

Guest
I'm sure some people didn't know me I always use 100% gas when available. Hate the corn gas for any engine!

why can't we just eat corn and burn gas, corn in gas, clowns!

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Yea Whitedust...... but where does one find 100% gasoline in the U.P.? I lost a 800 top end because of available fuels. The carbs were cleaned before the trip. Agreed, the Government Einsteine's that figured that corn test are probably laughing their a$%'s off.



Pat's Yamaha in Greenland! that's all I burn all winter but the reason is because it's 4 blocks from my house. I know what you mean, it will hard t know
 

polarisrider1

New member
You would think with the latest "Apple Pie" craze that they would make more "EverClear" with the corn. More Money in moonshine.
 

Woodtic

Active member
Last time I looked ,Maine and Florida are fighting the Feds on e-15. This fuel plays **** with out boards. This is a big deal with commercial fishermen . This is much bigger than a few sled heads. I don't think it will ever happen. You can't buy e-85 anywhere,why is that?
 

russholio

Well-known member
I bet they didn't spend as much on this study as people spent fixing or replacing their engines that E-15 killed! :)
 

Woodtic

Active member
Try this,Gas Technologies Inc is a company we work with . They test every thing that burns fuel. They are the leading experts in fuel. They give the equivalent of a UL rating when it comes to fuel. There exact words"alternative fuel and a food source will never work" .
 

Woodtic

Active member
The last project we worked on with them was with farming algae in ponds. Then doing the phase separation with chillers not heat. Dropping the temp to 40 then to 10 then to -40 . My point is,corn is a food source,and it takes a lot of energy to turn it into fuel. It takes way to much energy to turn the green stuff into fuel. Crude oil may be dirty,but turning it into fuel is a lot cleaner. Does this make sense?
 
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whitedust

Well-known member
Yea Whitedust...... but where does one find 100% gasoline in the U.P.? I lost a 800 top end because of available fuels. The carbs were cleaned before the trip. Agreed, the Government Einsteine's that figured that corn test are probably laughing their a$%'s off.

Pat's in Greenland & D&S in Eagle River,WI good ole 100% gas! Lots of times premium is 100% gas but only the owner knows for sure. Phelps Gas Station also 100% gas but premium pump only. It is out there & only 100% gas for my Etec 150 outboard too no corn crap gas in my toys unless I have to.
 

durphee

Well-known member
Ezra is right on. the ag subsidy is one of the, if not largest, subsidy out there. You think farmers want ethanol? Heck yeah, nothing better than driving up prices. I live in a rural area and all my farmer friends love the high demand for ethanol, they don't like using it though. Theres nothing wrong with researching alternative fuels(ie solar, wind, ethanol, battery efficiency, etc..l) but our wonderful gov't picks the winners through their lobbyist friends then make it a mandate through regulation.
The logic that we are using so much corn for fuel that were going to go hungry is a false logic. According to the National Corn Growers Association, about eighty percent of all corn grown in the U.S. is consumed by domestic and overseas livestock, poultry, and fish production. About 12% of the U.S. corn crop ends up in foods that are either consumed directly (e.g. corn chips) or indirectly (e.g. high fructose corn syrup). It is an extremely inefficient system, yet the taste from feeding a corn blend is good. ever had a steak from another country not fed a direct corn blend, its pretty different.
 

polarisrider1

New member
No doubt about the ethanol to gas craze to drive up corn prices. My coporate Farmer brother in law has made milions in subsidies with all the programs offered. "Set aside" has been a big one for him. He sets aside certain amount of acreage to Not grow corn on and the government pays him to not do so. thus in therory it will hold corn prices up. In reality the "set aside" land is land that is fence rows and so many feet in from fence rows to turn equipment around in. (why plant on ground you will knock down the corn in). Also he "sets aside" land that he leases those big metal power line towers on since they are hard to run a $250,000 combine around also. He also has natural gass wells he leases on his land, so that land is also "set aside". Can't grow corn to near a oil well now can we, especially one that pays royalties. Then he has the Commodity exchange, an easy $10,000 a morning just moving corn futures around. (product never really gets moved from silo to silo). Then again may just as well put some coin into an ethanol plant to now use your $3 a bushell corn inflated to $7 a bushel corn to make gas additives or filler (ethanol). Take the Tax advantages of that for investing in "Green" to offset the money you truely have to show as income. Now do this with 12,000 owned and 8,000 leased acres of land all the while renting out the old farm houses on the various farm properties. One barely needs to drive a tractor. Just own a bunch of them and park them around to depreciate.
Now you can't blame the guy, he is playing the "game" setup by government for him to play.
 

anonomoose

New member
While I think that "set aside" farming was designed to keep farmers from over producing and driving the price of the product they produce down to a point where the "small guy" got squeezed out, clearly we don't need it anymore and it should be tossed.

However, if we are going to talk about tax breaks...let's in fairness take a good look at what oil companies get to do....

"Depletion is the using up of a natural resource by mining, quarrying, drilling, or felling. Depletion allowance, then, is the allowance available through the IRS code allowing an owner to account for the reduction (production) of reserves as a product is produced and sold. .... the depletion allowance we are concerned with is the depletion allowance associated with the production of oil and/or gas. The depletion allowance, like depreciation, is a form of cost recovery for capital investments. There are two ways of calculating depletion allowance: cost depletion and percentage depletion. Oil and gas royalty owners have the availability of using either, yet for mineral properties you must generally use the method that gives you the larger deduction.If you have an economic interest in mineral property (which includes royalty income), you can take a deduction for depletion.

With cost depletion, a taxpayer recovers the actual capital investment throughout the period of income production. Each year, the taxpayer deducts a portion of the original capital investment, less previous deductions, that is equal to the fraction of the estimated remaining recoverable reserves that have been produced and sold that year. The cumulative amount recovered under this method can never exceed the taxpayer’s original capital investment.


Under percentage depletion, the deduction for the recovery of one’s capital investment is a fixed percentage of the gross income (sales revenue) from the sale of the oil or gas. For oil and gas royalty owners, percentage depletion is calculated using a rate of 15% of the gross income based on your average daily production of crude oil or natural gas, up to your depletable oil or natural gas quantity. An attractive element of percentage depletion is that the cumulative depletion deductions may be greater than the capital amount spent by the taxpayer to acquire the property." (underlining is mine)

There is a taxable income limit for oil and gas royalty owners. Your annual deduction for percentage depletion is limited to the smaller of the following:

  • 100% of your taxable income from the property figured without the deduction for depletion
  • 65% of your taxable income from all sources, figured without the depletion allowance.
More specific details on this topic can be found in IRS Publication 535."

>>Good to know that these poor oil companies can write off up to 100% of their profits...and if you doubt they don't think again....they likely pay less income tax than YOU do. But try and do away with some of these fat write-offs from farmers to oil companies and you will face a wrath that will likely put you out of office if you are a congressman.
Funds will fill
 

renegade

Active member
A good farmer today is not one with a green thumb, but one who can play the game, that is for sure. Most farms are now factory farms, subsidies should go out with the family farm ..... There is a station by Lake Wissota that sells 87 octane pure gasoline for 10 cents higher than 10% ethanol 87 octane. So that is where I fill up my boat and gas can for mowers etc. There was a station in Presque Isle where we bought last winter if, I remember right, had 87 100% gasoline. I'm sure there are more out there. Would be nice to know where they are!
 
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