Use of Google and internet increases CO2 emissions:
http://americaswatchtower.com/2009/01/11/using-google-causes-global-warming/
http://americaswatchtower.com/2009/01/11/using-google-causes-global-warming/
Effect of climate warming on Lake Superior
- Thread starter matti
- Start date
anonomoose
New member
An investigation without allegation....pretty interesting. In this article, Myron Ebell, of the Competitive Enterprise Institute, said the case reinforces the group's position that people should be more skeptical about the work of climate change scientists.
Shades of the old Tobacco Institute....organize, bribe, discredit and propagandize...til the cows come home, and never look back.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/7674560.html#ixzz1TSOpTr79
Guess who is paying for this guy's suits and fancy cars....??? Free popcorn (Oval's best) to the guy who figures that one out.
Let me help you.....Competitive Enterprise Institute is a "watch dog" group dedicated to " that question global warming alarmism and oppose energy rationing policies." (Note last four words of that last statement).....
Also responsible for...counseling and "convincing the Bush Administration not to regulate carbon dioxide emissions."
Now what industry would want to discredit the main man who disabled the cozy oversight management sector of the energy department responsible for overseeing the oil drilling in the gulf. Why would anyone ever want to discredit that guy??????? Hummm......connect the dots....deception, subterfuge, innuendo...all works to discredit someone with nothing other than an idea.
anonomoose
New member
Just a reminder no matter what this witch hunt...I mean investigation turns up, read this:
http://www.adn.com/2011/02/06/1687857/polar-bears-epic-swim-seen-as.html
There is a book called the Skeptical Environmentalist. The book is written by a guy who believes in global warming (or climate change or whatever it is called now). He contends though that the cost of trying to "fix" it is so great and so the methods and likelihood of success so uncertain that it would be morally wrong to try to fix it as we could instead cure diseases and eliminate world hunger with the same amount of investment.
As a side note, I like how certain people take a 30 year temperature trend, from 1970 to 2000, which is based on data collected at different places and under circumstances and conditions, and call it indisputable global warming and compare those who disagree with those who deny the holocaust or who deny the effects of tobacco. I do not doubt the sincerity of those who believe the media reports regarding global warming, but I believe those pushing it have one of two agendas: (1) get rich through funding of govt-backed "studies", taxpayer investments into alternative "green" technologies or via the carbon trading boondoggle, or (2) use a carbon tax as the first step towards global governance. Since communism failed, this is the next attempt at the same end.
As a side note, I like how certain people take a 30 year temperature trend, from 1970 to 2000, which is based on data collected at different places and under circumstances and conditions, and call it indisputable global warming and compare those who disagree with those who deny the holocaust or who deny the effects of tobacco. I do not doubt the sincerity of those who believe the media reports regarding global warming, but I believe those pushing it have one of two agendas: (1) get rich through funding of govt-backed "studies", taxpayer investments into alternative "green" technologies or via the carbon trading boondoggle, or (2) use a carbon tax as the first step towards global governance. Since communism failed, this is the next attempt at the same end.
Isn't the polar bear population at an all-time high?
chords
Active member
My head is spinning from all the long winded quotes that are only cut and pasted from someone elses idea-alogys. And the site quote feature used to add "I agree"
Magnetic North Pole and South Pole are reversing positions.
Its been taking place for hundreds, thousands of years, shifting back and forth, but slowly reversing and with this change the "shield" that protects the earth from the sun and space is dissipating. We are only seeing the effects of this change in the beginning stages. Rising temps, record cold, tornados ripping up the South, the current heat wave, floods, record rain, droughts. Commuication and power grid interuptions. Shifting of ocean currents. Even NASA has shut down.
Magnetic North Pole and South Pole are reversing positions.
Its been taking place for hundreds, thousands of years, shifting back and forth, but slowly reversing and with this change the "shield" that protects the earth from the sun and space is dissipating. We are only seeing the effects of this change in the beginning stages. Rising temps, record cold, tornados ripping up the South, the current heat wave, floods, record rain, droughts. Commuication and power grid interuptions. Shifting of ocean currents. Even NASA has shut down.
Last edited:
700classic
New member
No, according to the article it's down by 4!
700classic
New member
I'm on John's side on this. Out of everybody on this site, the man is the most qualified to comment on this subject. How many hours of the day, years of your life have you put in studying the weather?
L
lenny
Guest
anonomoose, until you can explain to me the jump you make to mans contribution I CONTUNUE to refer to than you have no case. Hearing you reminds me of a similar worldview, and there are are programs on the weather channel about it now, I think they are called "it could happen tomorrow" or something like that. It portrays fear in the finest and ignore common sense. Talk about a complete waste of time and money, but hey, they got it so why not spend it.
Here's is the bottom line my friend. GW camp can continue to speculate, make them fell better about themselves by saving the planet or they can learn to become responsible and react to what is actually happening around them. We NEVER should make the leap of action till we understand what we are observing. We always have room for improvement and continue to refine things but to implement radical ideas without evidence is ridiculous.
I can present this just as you have, lets see how it works. What if the pattern of variation in temps we are experiencing is a repeat of what we have experienced in the past? We have evidence of this occurrence and have a name for it. You prefer to redefine the already understood pattern. I prefer to respond to refining and cleaning up. As far as you ozone statement, same thing. Gotta blame something we do not understand on someone I suppose.
Here's is the bottom line my friend. GW camp can continue to speculate, make them fell better about themselves by saving the planet or they can learn to become responsible and react to what is actually happening around them. We NEVER should make the leap of action till we understand what we are observing. We always have room for improvement and continue to refine things but to implement radical ideas without evidence is ridiculous.
I can present this just as you have, lets see how it works. What if the pattern of variation in temps we are experiencing is a repeat of what we have experienced in the past? We have evidence of this occurrence and have a name for it. You prefer to redefine the already understood pattern. I prefer to respond to refining and cleaning up. As far as you ozone statement, same thing. Gotta blame something we do not understand on someone I suppose.
tealracing16
Member
I don't have an opinion on GW/CC. But I want to be a good steward to the land. I will use tree's to make paper, but I won't clear cut. I will burn gas at 9MPG's snowmobiling, but I won't let my car run for an hour while I visit friends. I will go out on a boat and have fun, afterwards me and my kids can spend some time picking up trash alongside the river. Etc... I want my kids to have the UP as we all see it, as a beautiful treasure and I want there kids to enjoy it. We can all have as much fun as we want as long as there is respect for everything.
As far as someone arguing with John, that is just plain ignorant. The man spends his life watching the weather, I don't think I would argue.
John - I love the sarcasm, but could you add a smiley
it would make us all feel better.
As far as someone arguing with John, that is just plain ignorant. The man spends his life watching the weather, I don't think I would argue.
John - I love the sarcasm, but could you add a smiley
it would make us all feel better.anonomoose
New member
An impressive iceberg arrived in Newfoundland’s Goose Cove in mid-July. “Icebergs float in from Greenland,” said the photographer, Gene Patey. This one briefly blocked the town’s harbor before breaking apart and melting, “but the fishermen took their chances.” (Photo: Gene Patey)
Attachments
I don't have an opinion on GW/CC. But I want to be a good steward to the land. I will use tree's to make paper, but I won't clear cut. I will burn gas at 9MPG's snowmobiling, but I won't let my car run for an hour while I visit friends. I will go out on a boat and have fun, afterwards me and my kids can spend some time picking up trash alongside the river. Etc... I want my kids to have the UP as we all see it, as a beautiful treasure and I want there kids to enjoy it. We can all have as much fun as we want as long as there is respect for everything.
John - I love the sarcasm, but could you add a smiley
Well put tealracing.
Here is a smiley for everyone
All is good with me. I guess I just get frustrated when I read things about GW/CC being presented as facts when they are just opinions. Or when science is skewed to fit a particular agenda. I have said it in the past and will say it again. I do not believe that the whole GW/CC thing is 100% bogus. I respect the possibility that man is changing the earths environment in the dramatic ways stated by some. However, I believe that the more likely scenario is that mother nature is just doing what she wants to do and we are just along for the ride.
I do not make my decisions based on any political or religious beliefs. My side is chosen purely to respect science and the scientific process. I am a scientist by profession and it REALLY bothers me to see the issue so politicized. I have read plenty of crap put out by both sides of the argument and in most cases it is put out by someone with absolutely no formal training in atmospheric science. Sadly, a lot of persons being labeled as "climate experts" do not even have a formal training in atmospheric sciences.
I am going to refrain from jumping into the debate, other than to say all the points made in favor of GW/CC in this forum have holes big enough in them to drive a semi-truck through and there have also been some issues I have had in the posts against GW/CC.
-John
PS I also shudder at the thought I am in relative agreement with John Coleman! Perhaps a nice guy, I don't know, but I grew up with him as a weather guy in Chicago and man was his knowledge of the weather poor back then! One of the forecasters I always wondered: "How can he get it so wrong!?"
No, don't put your tongue on it, Indy!
That's an awesome picture. Where did you find that?
thanks
L
lenny
Guest
All people have a degree of common sense. We observe our surroundings and draw a conclusion. Some ideas today stem from, as John stated, religious, political etc,,,,,. We can see a strong influence politically on the subject of GW, also from the religious side. Personally I feel that many things in life do not require a degree for the average guy to understand. We may not grasp the many details but the basic principle can often be thought out and understood by observation and evidence. The basic principle of the matter is often enough to say you cannot build upon the basis. So, without understanding all the details, a non bias thinker can draw a conclusion that the principle cannot be built upon. The bias thinker has influences that drive the building process and you can build anything with influence, there's no limit. I openly admit my approach may not be of a scientific approach per say but I also am not blind to the data presented by both sides. I also do not demand I am correct because I just may be wrong.
Here is a interesting side note, maybe it can shed a little light on the way man thinks. As a father of four, I have had a plate full of experiences raising children. When a father interacts with his kids he shows love, respect, discipline,,,,etc. He invests into the kids life to raise them to be strong in what ever ways he sees fit. One of the interactions I mentioned is discipline. Most often I strongly challenge my kids with thinking through what they say and do. When they make mistakes I do not jump to punishment but rather talk things out. In these talks you learn how they think and act. I reason with the kids and they often have a strong will. Until they back down from their position ( and I am more so referring to obvious mistakes or deliberate disobedience) I press them to the logical end. Sometimes I find myself in error and own up but because they are children they are simply learning and respond well to reason. Here is where I am going with this. Kids, at least most younger kids do not have much political or religious influence. They may have understanding in both areas but have not learned how to spin the matter to their liking. Often the case is that they have learned through our talk about my position and have reasoned out the error. We walk away with understanding and a correction is made. Adults on the other hand, this spin becomes a way of life and grid lock is the norm. Pride is also an important factor and to give up pride means to admit defeat and that is impossible for so many powerful people. Kids on the other have not developed the level of pride as adult men have developed which turns into a big problem, hence war etc,,,,,
Seeing that I am not a scientist and my opinion is based on pure personal observation and simple logic, which I admit is not an scientific approach, someone please answer me this. How do we jump to mans responsibility for the current mainstream understanding of GW? Is it simply because we do produce emissions with different energy sources? Do we see a diesel truck billowing black smoke on the road, making us think of how many millions of trucks world wide are doing the same thing? I do see that as a possibility for the proponents of the GW camp and that is why I say it is fear oriented. I do not clam fear to insult or aggravate GW supporters. I honestly believe they think we are destroying the planet and feel the need to fix it. That is not the part I have the most problem with. The problem is in what we do about it. If preserving the globe is the driving force behind this than we all will suffer from regulation. Am I against preserving the globe? NO! I do my part but if man is not responsible than we are prematurely responding and seriously wasting big time and money. Someone help me out here.
Here is a interesting side note, maybe it can shed a little light on the way man thinks. As a father of four, I have had a plate full of experiences raising children. When a father interacts with his kids he shows love, respect, discipline,,,,etc. He invests into the kids life to raise them to be strong in what ever ways he sees fit. One of the interactions I mentioned is discipline. Most often I strongly challenge my kids with thinking through what they say and do. When they make mistakes I do not jump to punishment but rather talk things out. In these talks you learn how they think and act. I reason with the kids and they often have a strong will. Until they back down from their position ( and I am more so referring to obvious mistakes or deliberate disobedience) I press them to the logical end. Sometimes I find myself in error and own up but because they are children they are simply learning and respond well to reason. Here is where I am going with this. Kids, at least most younger kids do not have much political or religious influence. They may have understanding in both areas but have not learned how to spin the matter to their liking. Often the case is that they have learned through our talk about my position and have reasoned out the error. We walk away with understanding and a correction is made. Adults on the other hand, this spin becomes a way of life and grid lock is the norm. Pride is also an important factor and to give up pride means to admit defeat and that is impossible for so many powerful people. Kids on the other have not developed the level of pride as adult men have developed which turns into a big problem, hence war etc,,,,,
Seeing that I am not a scientist and my opinion is based on pure personal observation and simple logic, which I admit is not an scientific approach, someone please answer me this. How do we jump to mans responsibility for the current mainstream understanding of GW? Is it simply because we do produce emissions with different energy sources? Do we see a diesel truck billowing black smoke on the road, making us think of how many millions of trucks world wide are doing the same thing? I do see that as a possibility for the proponents of the GW camp and that is why I say it is fear oriented. I do not clam fear to insult or aggravate GW supporters. I honestly believe they think we are destroying the planet and feel the need to fix it. That is not the part I have the most problem with. The problem is in what we do about it. If preserving the globe is the driving force behind this than we all will suffer from regulation. Am I against preserving the globe? NO! I do my part but if man is not responsible than we are prematurely responding and seriously wasting big time and money. Someone help me out here.
Last edited:
Lenny-
I don't know if global warming caused my man's activities is real or imagined. I'm not a scientist either, and when I see people of science unable to reach a conclusion there certainly is no basis for me to form an opinion based upon zero involvement in the research. So, I dunno.
But the last part of your post caught my attention. While I am not a scientist, I am very logical, and this is what bothers me. The atmosphere is a closed system. It doesn't blow in from outer space. The air we have is all we've got. Over the last 150 years or so we have been burning all this coal and oil, and pumping the byproducts into the air. Power plants, factories, cars, trucks, trains, and on and on. And, the to make matters worse, we are removing the natural ecosystem (forests) that is designed to "replenish" our air.
It has to have an impact. It has to! If I close up my house, fill it full of leafy trees, and light a candle I will probably be ok. But if I take out the trees and start my lawnmower in the living room the air will get hotter and poisonous.
My brain simply will not allow me to believe that all this deforestation and burning of fossil fuels over the last 150 years has had zero impact. That is not fear, that is logic.
I have absolutely no idea how much or what kind of impact man's activities have had, I am not a scientist. But I cannot walk away from the belief that every action has a reaction, natural balance, karma, whatever. And if we continue to put this much crap in the atmosphere, the result will be a crappy atmosphere.
How's the house coming?