The Whitehouse this week is stating that the USA is currently feeling the effects of global warming. Drought in the west & southwest, extreme winter & summer seasons expected in the Midwest & more severe storms on the East Coast are all the result of global warming. I need more scientific proof that Global Warming is real & not a fabricated hoax to sell green products & enforce more stringent EPA requirements. Don't get me wrong I think cleaning up greenhouse gases is a good thing along with green products but for the Whitehouse to say we are having weather driven by global warming with no better proof "than look out your window it is happening now" is off the wall to me. What do you think from a scientific point of view is our current weather a result of Global Warming?
Effects of Global Warming Happening Now In USA?
- Thread starter whitedust
- Start date
I believe the people on the Pro Side of this will hang their hat on any and all events that help "sell their cause". There's money to be made off this, just consider all the Government studies, billions! The taxes that this will generate are enormous with more regulation to limit what you drive and what you burn in your furnace.
But the real Corker for me is that the people of the U.S. will be held accountable and the rest of the planet will go along their merry way. Do you think the likes of China, Africa, and India give a Rat's A$$ about Climate Change, of course not.
And the mere mention of this report and it's predictions on Tuesday sent the Stock Market in to a spin. Just a preview of things to come. Thanks White House (with a note of sarcasm)
But the real Corker for me is that the people of the U.S. will be held accountable and the rest of the planet will go along their merry way. Do you think the likes of China, Africa, and India give a Rat's A$$ about Climate Change, of course not.
And the mere mention of this report and it's predictions on Tuesday sent the Stock Market in to a spin. Just a preview of things to come. Thanks White House (with a note of sarcasm)
The pure science says that none of the weather anomalies we have seen in the past month, several months, or even years can be proven 100% to have been caused or influenced by climate change. With that said, it cannot also be proven 100% scientifically that they have not. Other than to say similar anomalies have been happening for as long has there as been someone to record them. So if they happened before humans started having such a significant role in the planets atmospheric make up, what caused them? and how is what is happening now different?
Obviously the battle lines will be drawn on this right along the political boundaries, which I think is a real shame. Science has been poisoned by politics and so far I see no antidote.
It is true that climate change is the goose that has laid the golden egg for many. Lots of folks with jobs that would not have them if Climate Change were to disappear.
I also believe no real answer to these questions involving Climate Change will be found in our lifetime. So the battle will rage on.
-John
Obviously the battle lines will be drawn on this right along the political boundaries, which I think is a real shame. Science has been poisoned by politics and so far I see no antidote.
It is true that climate change is the goose that has laid the golden egg for many. Lots of folks with jobs that would not have them if Climate Change were to disappear.
I also believe no real answer to these questions involving Climate Change will be found in our lifetime. So the battle will rage on.
-John
Thanks John!... you nailed how I feel about the subject & I'm always searching for more infomation. When the Whitehouse said the Earths temp will increase 10 degrees F in 100 years it just knocked my socks off!! That is a bold statement indeed & no doubt +10 degress F would be a game changer for the entire USA.The northwoods would see little to no snow in just 25 -50 years with a 5 degree F increase. How can they say stuff like that & think we will accept it as fact?
John nailed it.
"Global warming", or more precisely "Climate Change" has been occurring for millennia, cycling through a variety of "warm cycles" and "ice ages" even for millions of years, and those cycles will continue to the end of time.
These cycles have been enhanced to a very minor degree by occasional cataclysmic volcanic eruptions, which even for their monumental short-term contribution to periods of "global cooling", have been but minor "ripples" in the overall scheme of things.
But is any significant part of it due to "anthropogenic" climate change (due to some human activity)?
IMHO any human contribution to the entire equation is miniscule at best.
As is the chance of affecting the grand scheme of things by some of the extreme and costly efforts, such as restricting the use of "fossil fuels" and "carbon sequestration" which are being promoted by the most vocal wingnuts, have as much chance of ameliorating the situation as a "fart in an F5 (Saffir–Simpson hurricane wind scale) / EF5 (Enhanced Fujita Scale) hurricane", or moving beach sand with a million man army equipped with teaspoons.
To butcher a line from Bill Clinton: "It's the Sun, stupid!" — A complex set of inter-operative solar cycles, the effects of which are clearly revealed by geology and related disciplines such as Paleoclimatology and Dendroclimatology as well as other scientific means.
See also this "List of periods and events in climate history", for some pretty good graphic depictions of climate history including many well before the first humanoids crawled out of the caves and discovered fire.
Human influence? Yeah, like a snowball's chance in Phoenix!
L
lenny
Guest
but Frank, carbon structures have been inhibiting propagating for neon,,,, and has migrated from solar events to Oceania striation suggesting paleothermatic constriction of thermal fractures in the earths mantel. The big question is weather aliens jumped on der ol space ship and zapped da old earth with a gigantic ray gun, like an ilea stertorous fart, hey?
And you guys didn't think I could hang with you!
And you guys didn't think I could hang with you!
garyl62
Active member
whoa, you had me going for the first few words there Lenny. I think you've shown you can hang with anybody. Wonder though if they can hang with you on a side hill. Just saying...
G
G
Guest
There have been floods, famines, fires, landslides, tornadoes, tsunamis, blizzards, dry spells, wet spells, earthquakes, asteroid hits, melting polar ice caps, freezing polar icecaps, extinctions and any number of natural disasters since the beginning of time. The only difference between now and ten million years ago is that now everyone and their dog has a camera or a news crew to cover whatever may happen. This topic is so incredibly overblown. The climate changes everyday. Day turns into night and then back to day. Is AlGore taking credit for that too?
highhertel
Member
Like John said, it is all about politics.
Taking that one step further, it is all about special interest groups. Vote for me and I will find a way to take care of your cause. The one single source of most corruption in all levels of politics today, the interest of 'special' groups.
HH
Taking that one step further, it is all about special interest groups. Vote for me and I will find a way to take care of your cause. The one single source of most corruption in all levels of politics today, the interest of 'special' groups.
HH
I'm sitting here watching a show on the Smithsonian channel all about ice breakers, and how they play such an important role in breaking up ice all over the globe, to keep shipping lanes open. All of a sudden it dawns on me, has anyone ever made a correlation between the "early break up" of arctic sea ice, (supposedly caused by global warming!) and the fact that there are a multitude of ships circumnavigating the globe for that very purpose?
That is the problem: so many people do accept it as fact! "The White House is saying it, it must be true," the sheeple and uninformed say, which is precisely what big government wants (and not just on the Climate Change front<------you see what I did there haha) The government cannot control the informed!
sledheadbrp
Member
I'm very curious what is John's opinion, one way or the other, on "Global Warming" ?
read post#3.
This is a very interesting topic. I am an environmental biologist, not a climate change scientists (and yes there is a big difference). When politics gets injected into science you get lobbyists from each side that attempt to disapprove scientific findings. You have to look at science through an unbiased viewpoint. Hence, I do not believe in evolution, climate change, etc... but i believe what the science is telling me. Don't believe in science, trust the data even if it points in a direction you do not want it to go. Many individuals do not understand what it takes for science to be "proven." This is not a one study data limited situation. Do I believe in climate change..... yes but to a point. If you have ever reviewed data from a scientist then good luck understanding it if you have no training in the field. Many people don't believe in evolution and some even believe that vaccinations cause autism. Theres a difference between pubic perception and science.
Having said that, climate change is more technical and difficult than curing cancer. Its enormously complicated and technical. Also, many individuals think that all climate scientists believe the same thing....you would be a fool to believe this. there is much disagreement in findings and conclusions.
As far a lobbyists making money, it goes both ways. Big oil and coal lobby for their products to make money so bashing another side is really bashing both sides. We know one thing for sure, fossil fuels left unregulated equals massive health issues in humans, that is a scientific fact. Lead in gasoline and paint had massive lobbying to keep it in their products, all the well knowing that it is a neurotoxin. So, lobbyists were actively promoting their product knowing it was causing cognitive disabilities in children and adults, have fun sleeping at night.
Having said that, climate change is more technical and difficult than curing cancer. Its enormously complicated and technical. Also, many individuals think that all climate scientists believe the same thing....you would be a fool to believe this. there is much disagreement in findings and conclusions.
As far a lobbyists making money, it goes both ways. Big oil and coal lobby for their products to make money so bashing another side is really bashing both sides. We know one thing for sure, fossil fuels left unregulated equals massive health issues in humans, that is a scientific fact. Lead in gasoline and paint had massive lobbying to keep it in their products, all the well knowing that it is a neurotoxin. So, lobbyists were actively promoting their product knowing it was causing cognitive disabilities in children and adults, have fun sleeping at night.
Frank-
I was always led to believe that "Global Warming" and "Climate Change" are not the same thing, and are not interchageable.
Climate change is the ongoing change in our climate for a variety of reasons, one of which is the natural cycling of the earth's temperatures, like the ice age. The climate is always changing.
Global warming is a more specific term. It refers to increases in the Earth’s average temperature because of greenhouse gas build up in the atmosphere. Global warming is a cause of climate change, or not, depending on what you believe about greenhouse gasses impact on the temperature of the earth.
Global warming has not been going on for millenia, climate change has. Global warming specifically refers to the impact from the burning of fossil fuels.
You believe in climate change, you do not believe in global warming.
Climate change is the result of many factors. I believe global warming is a factor, however, I am not a scientist so my opinion is worthless.
At the risk of sounding cynical, which I really am not, just see what is happening within my own field of study...It is my feeling that most have dropped using Global Warming for Climate Change as it gave more wiggle room and more areas to pour money into.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for trying to get to know the workings of our planet as much as possible. I just see the GW or CC thing as the "El Nino" of the current generation of climate scientists. Only difference is, back in the early 80's when everything was being blamed on El Nino in an attempt to generate monies, the next few El Ninos came along and did not do what the experts said it would do (like (maybe a bit too exaggeration here) coastal California being washed into the Pacific by heavy rains), so a lot of the funding dried up and they went looking for the next dragon to slay or maybe goose to lay the golden egg.
-John
Yes, that is the "political" term, "Global Warming". But perhaps the real issue is more accurately "anthropogenic climate change/global warming", and the magnitude of its effect.
To me, "Global Warming" is simply the "upside" of "Climate Change", of course then "Global Cooling" is the downside. Both of which have been occurring for millennia.
I prefer to call the whole ball of wax "Global Climate Change", rather than to use the sensationalistic Global Warming "Algore-rithm".
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garyl62
Active member
Well most of the alarmist news stations talked about the big ice collapse in Antarctica yesterday. Here is a like to of all places MSNBC that takes an approach mostly from the other side. An interesting read, to bad it won't make the news like the "Global Warming" view of this story did.
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/envi...k-antarctic-meltdown-rising-sea-level-n104616
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/envi...k-antarctic-meltdown-rising-sea-level-n104616
Funny in all of that story they talk about how the west Antarctic sheet is melting, but no where do they talk about how the east side is gaining mass. Same thing with Greenland. All the talk is about how the edges are melting, but nothing about how the interior is gaining mass.
It is what I am trying to say, science is being hijacked.
-John
It is what I am trying to say, science is being hijacked.
-John