Ethanol mandate should be ENDED

[Cirrus_Driver]

Talk is that ethanol has been proven to be detrimental to operation of small engines.
Ethanol is an inferior fuel that provides poorer fuel efficiency in most modern day vehicles.
With a conservative in the WH, and control of federal senate, house, and state houses, movement may be at hand to remove the mandate.
This is a garbage product for everyone other than the people making money off of it. (farmers)
It's a false economy created by the government on some false pretense of clean emissions and crude oil shortages.
With the advent of fracking, we are literally swimming in oil in U.S., and will only have greater supply with a less intrusive government in DC.
End the mandate now.
Corn producers will need to shift their markets to foreign countries that need the food for impoverished populace.

 

[snoluver1]

It will be interesting to see where this goes over the next 4 years. I suspect there is way too much money wrapped up in the ethanol game to see any major changes. The last administration was trying to Increase the mandate even more! We have so much corn now, we don't even know what to do with it. Yields per acre are through the roof.

 

[G]

Can't argue with any of your points. But there has been too much money invested in changing over. The auto designers - all engine designers actually are in Ethanol mode. You just cant turn on a dime. Also every gas pump in the land seems to have been converted into some kind of a blending machine. Again there is no question that ethanol blends have many issues. But I am very much thinking it is here to stay. Plus Trump is not going to screw around with all the Midwestern folk (farmers) that got him elected.

 

[jebjk1]

I like Ethonal.

 

[snobuilder]

I agree totally, let the public decide what fuel they want and it will go away.

I also see no need for emissions testing in so called non compliant epa zones. Here in SE WI I'd venture to say the failure rate is less than 3%.

 

[parker]

I doubt anyone would disagree, beside the farming community.

Think about the billions of dollars folks have lost due to the problems caused by the mandate by having no choice but to use it in their small engine equipment. Will the "mandating entity" pay for the damage that imposition cost ? They should, as that imposition is responsible.

Corn (starch, sugar) is in almost everything these days in some form or another. People are starving in the world, yet the USA decides to put it in our fuel (and also decides on our behalf to spend our money fixing equipment it has ruined), while at the same time huge amounts of grain rot annually going unused. That's a fact. This is beyond stupid.

That crap needs to go.

 

[whitedust]

Hate the stuff and I don't buy it and would never use in small engines. We are lucky to have choice to not use in Vilas.

 

[old abe]

"Corn producers will need to shift their markets to foreign countries that need the food for impoverished populace"??????????

Good luck with that statement!!! There is a surplus of corn stocks around the world now, and has been for 3+ years. Your statement XXX007, is well wishing, but there are too many commercial companies making money between the producer and the impoverished populace for that to ever workout. Farmers for many years have donated food to many different destinations, for impoverished/starving populace on there own, out of their own pockets. I have watched this for 50 years, and no change what so ever. Just as many people are hungry, and starve when there is surplus food supplies, as when there are food shortages. Sad but so very, very true. As to your ethanol problem, just have blender pumps that dispense either straight grade gasoline, or ethanol blends. Let the consumer chose as to what he wants. That will solve your gasoline problem. Where they have blender pumps, ethanol blends take the largest share of sales due to economics/price/$$$. Also, the oil companies like the ethanol so as to blend with a cheaper produced low octane gasoline so as to meet octane grades. There is no other octane enhancer available that can come close. Once again economics/$$$drive the market. The amount of oil produced in this country has nothing to due with the price you pay at the pump anymore. those days are gone forever, like it, or not. That is due to the export business. No longer are there any limits on domestic produced oil exports. There used to be limits to protect national security. Gone!!! The last 15 years of the amount of domestic produced oil, as compared to retail gasoline price, prove this beyond any doubt!!!

 

[Cirrus_Driver]

I agree totally, let the public decide what fuel they want and it will go away.

I also see no need for emissions testing in so called non compliant epa zones. Here in SE WI I'd venture to say the failure rate is less than 3%.

Right - originally they sold this as "cleaner burning fuel", but all those ozone standards have changed over the years.
When was the last time you saw on ozone alert on a steamy July afternoon in WI? You nailed it - let the free market decide, equal price, it will disappear in short order.

 

[old abe]

Right - originally they sold this as "cleaner burning fuel", but all those ozone standards have changed over the years.
When was the last time you saw on ozone alert on a steamy July afternoon in WI? You nailed it - let the free market decide, equal price, it will disappear in short order.

You may want to rethink your thoughts. Again some well wishing. Even the oil companies say that eliminating ethanol will increase pump price by 25%, or more. Most in the oil industry say that is low. This is due to increase demand, logistics, and what ever else they can come up with. But the main price increase driver will be producing high enough octane gasoline to meet grade standards. The free market is what it is. Oh well.

 

[snobuilder]

Real simple. Tax the ethanol producers and make them pay back the billions and billions they have stolen from the American public through tax credits and subsidies.
Let it whither on the vine as it should in a free market where no one wants it except for the greedy Bastards who are prospering via tax dollars. WELFARE at its best.

 

[Cirrus_Driver]

Please quote source (link) where eliminating ethanol will increase non-reformulated gas prices.
Total fabrication. Never heard this, because it's simply not the case. If anything it would have increased already because demand is down, since ethanol takes up a percentage of the current market demand.
Higher demand - higher volume, fixed costs spread over higher volume = lower price.
When I fill up with good gas in northern WI, usually Clintonville, that tank generates 2-3 MPG better than SE WI corn gas.

 

[whitedust]

Please quote source (link) where eliminating ethanol will increase non-reformulated gas prices.
Total fabrication. Never heard this, because it's simply not the case. If anything it would have increased already because demand is down, since ethanol takes up a percentage of the current market demand.
Higher demand - higher volume, fixed costs spread over higher volume = lower price.
When I fill up with good gas in northern WI, usually Clintonville, that tank generates 2-3 MPG better than SE WI corn gas.

MPG in a nut shell is worth dumping ethanol not to metion the carbon footprint to produce corn gas. Difficult to think we allowed this to happen to the USA public.

 

[Cirrus_Driver]

Hate the stuff and I don't buy it and would never use in small engines. We are lucky to have choice to not use in Vilas.

Getting to the point I'll have to carry gas on my sled to avoid it on longer trips. I never put the stuff in my sleds. When Conover and Boulder no longer have it, I will be in trouble.

 

[Tracker]

so before ya'll get TOO excited...maybe ya outta lookski at these 2 tings....alls I can tells ya is its a work in progress and they run off pure ethanol.....so my guess is it taint goin anywhere soon...I had a hand in it and I got to drive the electric race car....it was freaking awesome....i hit the wall but got 3rd place or 2nd...cannot rememba

https://www.scribd.com/document/163474043/Advanced-Super-Hornet-Media-Brief

https://www.scribd.com/document/184232315/Green-Racing-Fuel-By-Argonne-National-Labs

https://www.anl.gov/photos/green-racing-Argonne

 

[Cirrus_Driver]

Mr. T, advanced fighter aircraft and niche testing ethanol/electric race cars are isolated (high) performance, highly engineered machines, that aren't comparable to mass produced snowmobiles, SxS, snowblowers or lawn mowers.
I do agree - corn gas likely not going away.

 

[old abe]

XXX007, you have many sources you can easily goggle. Just goggle the subject. You can go to the petro industry, as many oil companies their own ethanol plants to start with. Universities, investment/consumer/economics sources, and even Nascar. Or why is it ethanol blends are cheaper than straight grade gasoline at the same location/pump??? Auto companies you know well, have highly developed ethanol/butanol (alcohol) engines in there future plans knowing that is where it's going. Some are heavy duty truck type engines. Again it's economics, just follow the money. I learn to live with what I can't change. My father always said to be careful what you wish for, as your loses may out weigh your gains. How does "hope and change work for you??? I don't put e-gas in my sleds, or 2-cycle engines if at all possible. But I have run many miles with e-gas, and with out engine failure. I carry a small bottle of K-100 with me for that purpose. If ethanol gas has to be stored, it needs to be treated to prevent moisture, and "phase separation". Thus K-100. I try to avoid storing e-gas, but have without problems by doing preventive treatment. Again the increase cost to producee/refine straight grade gasoline is far greater than blending ethanol to meet octane needs/grade. Petro companies are in business to profit, not to make you happy. If you had blender pumps, your problem would be over and you could be happy. Your cost would also be less. I by a lot of gasoline, and diesel fuel, and have always kept track of the amount of fuel used, and mpg's for business, and tax purposes. I have found even if there is a difference in mpg's, the economics balanced it out. Same as low grade diesel fuel compared to Prem diesel fuel. Gasoline and diesel fuel shelf life is very short as compared to what we were used to in the past. And again I have learned to deal with it as to storage pre treatment. Anyway, good luck to you. And don't bet on hope and change!!! There are easy ways to handle your problem.

 

[Tracker]

Mr. T, advanced fighter aircraft and niche testing ethanol/electric race cars are isolated (high) performance, highly engineered machines, that aren't comparable to mass produced snowmobiles, SxS, snowblowers or lawn mowers.
I do agree - corn gas likely not going away.

um....with these tests....your massed produced vehicles will succeed...and an FYI....we....the US....is way behind....a lot are already converting and running even high end BMWs on 100% pure ethanol....its coming...read here for insight....and....there is a way for those motors to produce higher HP with ethanol...and your motors as well....it is true...the 1st page was like 4 years ago....the last page is like months ago...read and learnt sumtin

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=458943

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a little birdie......



Instead, Jacobs is working on the engine of an 1100 cc four stroke mountain climbing snowmobile, to make it run on E98 from a race fuel supplier. “The snowmobile is just for fun and engineering knowledge,” he said, later adding that, “like all automotive technology the racers develop it.”

Other than on the race track, legally, mountain climbing is one of the few places where unlimited horsepower can be used. “The object is to spin the track, which is 160 inches long, as fast as possible,” he said. “Kind of like trying to ride a chain saw. … We lighten the machines as much as possible. The best are 400 horsepower and 400 pounds.”

Pure ethanol engines could pack a big punch
http://ethanolproducer.com/blog/article/2014/11/pure-ethanol-engines-could-pack-a-big-punch



take note.....

“like all automotive technology the racers develop it.”

 

[Cirrus_Driver]

Abe - pennies per gallon difference are of no significance to me. It would take $0.25 or more for me to favor ethanol over regular gas, and even then I would hesitate.
Unfortunately, the GOVERNMENT does not allow me to have the choice.
Multiple product choice - as in free market - is always the preferred solution. It's called capitalism, as opposed to dictated socialism.

 

[old abe]

Petroleum/oil subsidies, and tax credits are by far the largest fuel/welfare cost to US taxpayers/consumers by far, fossil fuel ,or renewable fuel. Has been for 100 years, still is. Plus, now they don't have to report publicly how little they pay to lease US oil/gas property rights. It's penny's on the dollar as compared to the rest of the world. Follow the money again!!!