D&S in ER all non Ethanol gas, Phelps has premium non E so does Krist in IR. I belive Sidnaw is non E premium as well also non E in LAnse. It's out there but I'm lucky coming back thru Phelps to fill up then off trail home from there. Krist is a good bet to get non E premium
D&S in ER all non Ethanol gas, Phelps has premium non E so does Krist in IR. I belive Sidnaw is non E premium as well also non E in LAnse. It's out there but I'm lucky coming back thru Phelps to fill up then off trail home from there. Krist is a good bet to get non E premium
Agree with all this except for "conservative it the WH."
Ethanol is the ultimate government product - its use is MANDATED by law, its production is SUBSIDIZED, and its competition (such as actually economically viable alternatives from Brazil) is squashed by TARIFFS. Without these three, courtesy of the corn state Senators of both parties, the demand for this product would be so low it would disappear. It's bad for the food supply, bad for the environment and bad economically for everyone other than those who produce it and those whose pockets are lined by the producers.
Your oil companies jobber is the one who did not give you a choice. Where I'm from there is a $0.30 to $0.40 plus difference from e-gas to straight 87 octane gasoline. Just as I said several times before, blender pumps. Such as multiple product choice (free market). Let the consumer choose there product!!! You are right, it's called capitalism. And, as for your problem, it is gone. Don't forget the conservatives brought your argument to you. And as always, follow the money, if in doubt!!! Oh, don't forget that the ethanol subsidies ended 5 years ago.
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Cirrus_Driver
Guest
Wrong again - problem is not gone. Ethanol and reg-gas both only available in very limited areas, so NOT close to true, pure competition, and therefore closer to socialist market policy than capitalism.
Keep trying, and thanks for playing.
Oh well think what you will, but your supplier/jobber is who chooses who gets what, and where. Again blender pumps do what you want. Capitalism for sure!!!
bearrassler
Well-known member
In ND both are available at many stations, about 30 to 40 cents more for non-ethanol and very little is sold, across the river in MN they do not sell non ethanol except in premium off road fuel (marine, snowmobile, mowers etc)
snobuilder
Well-known member
Pointing to another welfare program as a reason to perpetuate this alt fuel welfare program is sad.
Scum suckers of all ilks have ruined the USA....I hope the welfare addicts are very proud.
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Blender pumps are highly subsidiesed by my tax dollars.
Tell the truth.
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There is only ONE reason 10 % corn gas is the lowest cost....OUR FU.CLING TAX DOLLARS PAY FOR IT.
WELFARE AT ITS BEST.
WELFARE RECIPIENTS IN TAYLORED SUITS....NORTHWOODS RETREAT HOMES....ALL PAID FOR BY YOUR TAX DOLLARS.
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snobuilder
Well-known member
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snobuilder
Well-known member
Long before ethanol was mandated, (40+yrs. ago)and subsidiesed a local station offered 10% ethanol blend.
There price was always the same as everyone else's reg. 100% petrol.
There is no reason that wouldn't be the case today had all things remained the same.
Around here ppl drive to the next county over to get real gas fill-ups and usually are filling a can as well for there small engines.
6 SE WI counties can't sell real gas by (unelected)EPA regulators mandate.
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snobuilder you are correct on some thoughts, and not on others. I'll try to help you out here. 40 years ago, it probably was not ethanol, but was methanol used in gasoline blends. Many bad issues with methanol as to fuel system components. You are right that some blender pumps have been partially paid for out of the Dept. of Ag budget. But the most of them have not been paid for with tax dollars. The taxpayer money was already in the Dept.of Ag budget for rural development. Yes, there are areas that are required to use oxygenated fuel. And ethanol is the cheapest form of oxygenate additive out there. Ethanol is also a octane booster. And that is what the petro companies like best. And again, ethanol is the cheapest octane enhancer by far. This allows them to refine a lower octane gasoline that is much cheaper to produce. Sorry, but its the economics they like. As to comparing subsidies, tax credits, or what ever you want to call them, why not compare them all??? Do you only complain of some, and look the other way on others??? I was only trying to make the point that the petro/gas industry is very highly padded with taxpayers money. You surely know that the ethanol subsidies have been gone for over 5 years??? Ethanol is standing on its own due to the additive benefits it provides to the fuel suppliers. To each his own. Would I prefer the fuels we had 35 years ago??? In some ways you bet I would, but those fuels would not work in the vehicles we have now. I remember when they took the lead additive out of gasoline. These same type argument happened then also. But once again, hope and change did not work out. OH well, I say so what. I'm thinking the modern fuels are here to stay. No matter what they are. And the whole fuel/energy thing will continue to advance in the future no matter who likes what. So, as I have said before, don't bet on hope and change!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Cirrus_Driver
Guest
Why waste the time - there's a percentage of the populace that just "parrotts" what they hear from their low information voter buds or liberal media.
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G
Guest
A little off topic but I once read that it takes 8 gallons of fresh water to produce 1 gallon of ethanol. There was talk of putting up an ethanol refinery someplace in central MN but it got booted because it would have required too much water out of the local infrastructure. As far as the farmers they will always follow the money. Around here more and more are getting into specialty crops like flax and rapeseed. The depressed commodity prices for corn and wheat and now even soybeans are to blame for that. My own personal opinion is that we jumped the wrong way 30 years ago when we committed to corn based ethanol but it is too late to go back. I don't like gas with a 30 day shelf life. But that is where we are at.
I hear ya Grub. The most of ethanol plants today use very little H2o to produce a gallon of product, as to plants of the past. It is also easy to update older ethanol plants as many have done, as compared to petro refineries. And none, to very little discharge water now. The plants are very proficient now days. The amount of water used to produce ethanol is a drop in the bucket as compared to refining petro/gasoline. Waste water is the biggest issue in the petro refining process as it is hazardous. I use diesel fuel, and gasoline, and even the straight product non blended fuels have very short shelf life as compared to fuels of years ago. Fuel to be stored these days properly has to be pre treated/stabilized or you'll have big problems. But we aren't going back to those times, so one has to adjust to what we have to work with. Hope and change doesn't work.
snobuilder
Well-known member
Obama did an end around and money continues to be pointed towards ethanol production.
To say ethanol tax breaks went away 5 years ago is laughable.....yes, we have stole enough of your tax dollars and handed it to the ethanol welfare addicts, and now they are all set to trudge on into the unknown....lol.
Every time ethanol gets discussed it is clear who has a open palm in the game.
To say ethanol tax breaks went away 5 years ago is laughable.....yes, we have stole enough of your tax dollars and handed it to the ethanol welfare addicts, and now they are all set to trudge on into the unknown....lol.
Every time ethanol gets discussed it is clear who has a open palm in the game.
You think farmers are the only ones with NORTHWOOD retreat homes who revive tax subsides??? LOL
You seem to like to pick and choose who receives subsides and tax credits. Why not call out every factory or business that receives them? Several business in the NORTHWOODS are receiving hand outs. Ethanol isn't going anywhere. I put on 9,000 miles on a sled with zero issues. Well over 7,500 on ethanol. I ran E85 in my Tahoe for 2 years back in 04-06. 15,000 + miles zero issues. I run it in all my Sthil had held equipment. 20 year old weed eater and finally changed the plug this year. You really have no clue what you are talking about
old abe has nailed it. Not much more I can add that he hasent said
Shell’s proposed $4bn plant in Pennsylvania is set to benefit from tax credits of $66m a year for 25 years. Shell has bought the site and has 10 supply contracts in place lasting up to 20 years, including from fracking companies extracting shale gas in the Marcellus shale field. The deal was struck by the then Republican governor, Tom Corbett, who received over $1m in campaign donations from the oil and gas industry.
XXX007 is ok with this. But a farmer selling corn to an ethanol plant is wrong??
XXX007 is ok with this. But a farmer selling corn to an ethanol plant is wrong??
snobuilder
Well-known member
Why do you use one welfare program to defend another?...are you personally benefiting from the welfare of one or both?
in bold, please quote my words to back up your horse**** lie.
Thank you snobuilder for showing your hand!!! I like!!! Kind of figured it that way by how you replied previously. You need to do a little research as Obama, and his crony's were definitely no close friend to the ethanol industry. Vilsack as head of the Dept. of Ag was the only one who could be considered friendly. I see how much you really know about the energy industry as your posts provided that info. Anyway, yep, I say so what. Have a good day!!!