Explain-Polaris pricing $3300 higher than Doo?

[uperjim]

Ok--I am in the market to snow check a new sled. 2021 Ski doo Backcountry Sport with 146" track, 600 EFI, G4 MSRP $8999.
Comparable to 2021 Polaris Switchback Assault 144, AXYS, 144",600EFI MSRP$12299. I figure that is as apples to apples as I can get.

The new Switchback Assault 146" with the 650 Liberty is MSRP $14,800

How can Poo expect to ask 36% more than Doo? Now I prefer the AXYS chassis because it is better off trail for sustaining impacts without cracking and it HAS to be easier to service(currently have a 600 XP-Summit) but just can't justify the price increase.

Any input where I am not looking at this objectively?

Thanks!

 

[snobuilder]

Your doo apples have no comparable Poo apples.
why would you go back to carbs?

Too bad they is trying to get that for the 650.
They will find out that most smart buyers wait for the spring sell off....but it is up to Poo....do they want to be number 1 or not? Their fate is in their own hands. They have the right line up.
IMO...gear up and man up staff wise and flood the market. Volume always wins.

 

[srt20]

Isn't that the new doo engine with like 75hp? If so, there's your price difference.

Not to mention that the sport models are the bottom of the totem pole.

And the poo is a 650.

So actually there is nothing apples to apples in your comparison.

 

[slimcake]

I was gonna say something but these guys got it. The Doo is about half the horsepower with carbs you can't get at....

 

[uperjim]

To clarify---the $3300 (36%) price difference is for 600EFI engines from both manufacturers. I included the numbers for the 650 Patriot version but that makes the number discrepancy even higher. Ski Doo has eliminated the 600 carb for 2021 and replaced it with a 600 EFI which they say is based on the ETEC technology. So bottom line is that both sleds I used for a comparison have 600cc fuel injected engines.

 

[snobuilder]

To clarify---the $3300 (36%) price difference is for 600EFI engines from both manufacturers. I included the numbers for the 650 Patriot version but that makes the number discrepancy even higher. Ski Doo has eliminated the 600 carb for 2021 and replaced it with a 600 EFI which they say is based on the ETEC technology. So bottom line is that both sleds I used for a comparison have 600cc fuel injected engines.

well then shame on Doo for calling it 'sport" which to most is understood as bottom of the barrel carbed , low buck rental fleet sled with aprox 105 HP.....

so now I gotta ask why would you give up 40 HP to the old school carbed "Sport" and think the new "Sport" is apples to apples with Polaris 125HP EFI??...not to mention the far superior Assault chassis?

....the shocks alone retail for $3300 more....LOL

 

[srt20]

The doo engine has 85hp. The poo 600 has 125-130hp. The doo has bottom of the barrel shocks, the poo has walker evans needles. The doo has old rear suspension, the poo has the IGX suspension.

Thats just some of the $3300 difference. Im sure there's more. Again, its not apples to apples.

 

[snobuilder]

What was the question again?....

 

[brad460]

When I was looking for a new truck last summer I couldn’t believe the Ford F-350 diesel was $10k more than a Ram 1500 gasser....unbelievable..complete bulls**t..

 

[uperjim]

did some more checking and yes what Doo is calling the NEW 600EFI is basically a detuned 600R ETEC and is only rated at 85 HP.They are touting the better fuel economy etc but my old 600 carbed Summit was rated at 105 HP in 2012 so they obviously are playing some games here. The 600 sports last year had carbs but put out 105 HP and this year they raised the price put fuel injection on the 600's and lowered the power by 20HP.

Why in the heck would a manufacturer do a dumb thing like that???????

Gonna go to the 2021 Ski Doo show in Grand Rapids next week and ask the factory rep that exact question. I am sure they will give me some BS about it having better throttle response etc but to pull 20 HP out of it???? Not much more power than the 550 fan.

 

[old abe]

So Poo's new 650 is priced $ 2,400 higher than the old Liberty 600 CFI? Whoa? That's a lot cabbage.

 

[1fujifilm]

did some more checking and yes what Doo is calling the NEW 600EFI is basically a detuned 600R ETEC and is only rated at 85 HP.They are touting the better fuel economy etc but my old 600 carbed Summit was rated at 105 HP in 2012 so they obviously are playing some games here. The 600 sports last year had carbs but put out 105 HP and this year they raised the price put fuel injection on the 600's and lowered the power by 20HP.

Why in the heck would a manufacturer do a dumb thing like that???????

Gonna go to the 2021 Ski Doo show in Grand Rapids next week and ask the factory rep that exact question. I am sure they will give me some BS about it having better throttle response etc but to pull 20 HP out of it???? Not much more power than the 550 fan.

Old Abe and I were chatting about the 600 carb Doo in another post and he said it was originally from 1999/2000; that is old and emissions are likely way out of current expectations requiring an upgrade.

I would have preferred they use the "old" 600 E-Tec (the one that was prevalent through 2019) in the entry Sport level but they had their reasons (good or bad).

Anyway, Poo has changed it's business model since about October of 2018 by increasing prices and decreasing rebates/incentives.
Doo has done the opposite, they have increased prices very slightly and increased rebates/incentives (some above board to to us and some dealer known only).
To me, this is why Poo's are now more expensive than Doo (not all, but in the models I ride).
I specifically do not like how Poo expects buyers to pay $200 more for painted rails, $200 more for a painted tunnel and like $300 for E-Start.
GOOD GRIEF POO, who the heck wants to pull over an 800/850 in the morning when it is 5 below? Not me!

They both make nice sleds but both try to own the market and make the most money for their stake/stockholders.

Bear

 

[snobuilder]

Old Abe and I were chatting about the 600 carb Doo in another post and he said it was originally from 1999/2000; that is old and emissions are likely way out of current expectations requiring an upgrade.

I would have preferred they use the "old" 600 E-Tec (the one that was prevalent through 2019) in the entry Sport level but they had their reasons (good or bad).

Anyway, Poo has changed it's business model since about October of 2018 by increasing prices and decreasing rebates/incentives.
Doo has done the opposite, they have increased prices very slightly and increased rebates/incentives (some above board to to us and some dealer known only).
To me, this is why Poo's are now more expensive than Doo (not all, but in the models I ride).
I specifically do not like how Poo expects buyers to pay $200 more for painted rails, $200 more for a painted tunnel and like $300 for E-Start.
GOOD GRIEF POO, who the heck wants to pull over an 800/850 in the morning when it is 5 below? Not me!

They both make nice sleds but both try to own the market and make the most money for their stake/stockholders.

Bear

Agree.....but they finally unlocked the cage and made the 850 available and also decided to not hold the new 650 hostage to "spring order only" either.

 

[UP RIDER]

In the S X S market Poo is more expensive than Canned Ham almost across the entire line, but they still seem to own the market

 

[goofy600]

In the S X S market Poo is more expensive than Canned Ham almost across the entire line, but they still seem to own the market

As I’ve been looking at some of the s x s between the 2 I think it’s just been the last year or 2 that poo has become more than the canam and I agree with fugi what he said about snowmobile side is happening on atv/ utv world. As for Polaris still owning the market I would agree but I think canam is cutting into the margin. Just my thoughts.

 

[1fujifilm]

In the S X S market Poo is more expensive than Canned Ham almost across the entire line, but they still seem to own the market

Maybe..I am not in the know on Can-Am.
But, I can tell you I paid $12,400 (plus tax and reg.) for a new 2018 (leftover) XP-1000 Premium last May.
That price still seems to hold up today as a rocket. The key is to hone in on the rebate cycle.

FYI; a new 2019 570 Poo base model ATV is about $5,700 today, it is likely to be at $5,100 (or less) in the late spring and the again in late fall (if there are any left).

Also, we will see how long the Corona scare lasts. It could disrupt sales and drive prices lower too.
Some guy commented in a different post gas was like $1.74 in MN, I saw $1.99. Lower gas prices means people are not using gas in things like; cars, trucks, airplanes and our toys.

Bear

 

[old abe]

Maybe..I am not in the know on Can-Am.
But, I can tell you I paid $12,400 (plus tax and reg.) for a new 2018 (leftover) XP-1000 Premium last May.
That price still seems to hold up today as a rocket. The key is to hone in on the rebate cycle.

FYI; a new 2019 570 Poo base model ATV is about $5,700 today, it is likely to be at $5,100 (or less) in the late spring and the again in late fall (if there are any left).

Also, we will see how long the Corona scare lasts. It could disrupt sales and drive prices lower too.
Some guy commented in a different post gas was like $1.74 in MN, I saw $1.99. Lower gas prices means people are not using gas in things like; cars, trucks, airplanes and our toys.

Bear

Say fuji, I'm a thinking the lower gas prices has more to do with the price of raw crude oil free falling out of bed. Lower crude prices now being accelerated by the Russian/Saudi production/oil price war. However it is true, and China is a very large part of it, crude oil/gas consumption/volume is down significantly due to the fast, and broad spreading Coronavirus. Talking with my bulk diesel fuel supplier, I will continue to wait for a low point to buy all of my diesel storage capacity. Stabilizing my bulk fuel storage is cheap, and gives me 18 month shelf life.

 

[nc666]

Say fuji, I'm a thinking the lower gas prices has more to do with the price of raw crude oil free falling out of bed. Lower crude prices now being accelerated by the Russian/Saudi production/oil price war. However it is true, and China is a very large part of it, crude oil/gas consumption/volume is down significantly due to the fast, and broad spreading Coronavirus. Talking with my bulk diesel fuel supplier, I will continue to wait for a low point to buy all of my diesel storage capacity. Stabilizing my bulk fuel storage is cheap, and gives me 18 month shelf life.

What stabilizer do you use?

 

[old abe]

What stabilizer do you use?

Gas, StarTron, K-100. Diesel, only Power Service diesel products. Clear diesel for stabilizing, no corrosive, or abrasive chemicals. I only use ISO quality Bio diesel for the increased lubricity. Fuel injection components very pricey!

 

[Attak man]

Good grief...this guy is not even comparing the same thing...the 600 efi sport is NOT an ETEC!!! ..it's a basic throttle body efi, it doesn't have power valves either....it's 85 HP...it's true it's based on the 600 R motor..but that's about it.
Apples to apples would be a back country 600r (ETEC) vs the assault....pricing would be very similar.