FatTire Bikes - Snowmobile trails in Maine

[snocrazy]

http://bangordailynews.com/2015/03/25/outdoors/fat-biking-gains-traction-in-maine-with-new-festival/

Do these people think its a good idea for even a second to be on a bicycle on a snowmobile trail?
This makes no sense. This is a trend I am sure we are going to see every where there are snowmobile trails.
This is nuts!

Quote from article....
"Sharing the trails
To prepare for the Sugarloaf race, Hannah has been riding on a variety of Bangor-area trails, including the trails of the Rolland F. Perry City Forest in Bangor, multi-use trails in Orono, the Perch Pond bike trails in Dedham and local snowmobile trails.

Good fat biking routes are surfaced with smooth packed snow, making snowmobile trails an ideal fit. Typically, the colder the conditions, the better. Sticky snow and mud is difficult to ride through, even with fat tires.

“Around here we mostly rely on snowmobile trails,” Hannah said. “We’re trying to expand in this area, getting in with snowmobile clubs, making our sport known and kind of working with them for us to be able to use their trails.”"

 

[snocrazy]

The comments are great on this article. Looks like snowmobilers in Maine are all over this.

The first one -
I ride snowmobiles and atvs as well as a bicycle. I would NEVER ride a bicycle on a marked snowmobile or ATV trail. For one it's dangerous and the registrations fees of the snowmobile and atv pay to maintain these trails for those riders. It's bad enough when you come around a corner and there is someone cross country skiing in the trail and no way to get off it quickly. My registration pays to maintain snowmobile trails....not snowmobile/cross-country skiing/dog sledding/snowshoeing and now fat tire bike riding. Multi use trails should be marked as such and EVERYONE should pay to use them.

 

[highhertel]

Better than a 4 x 4 pick em up truck on the trail I guess. Had a face to face encounter a couple times throughout the years with Jimmy Bob and his '72 Chev Trailblazer on a snowmobile trail. Seemed to happen mostly around Mountain/Lakewood/ Laona trails.

Cross country skiers on snowmobile trails is another potentially bad situation. Had this experience several times in Door County State Parks while snowmobiling.

HH

 

[chad66]

I see this becoming a problem in the U.P. Not against biking but it could end poorly, bikes are expensive and I'm sure there wouldn't be much left to one if hit by a sled, not to mention the harm to the rider. Just a bad idea. Hopefully it will be addressed before that happens.

Chad@M&M

 

[beakjones]

luckily in Ishpeming and Marquette there are incredible bike clubs who maintain their own trails with a custom sled and drag that is way more fun than any sled trail would ever be on a bike (speeds are different, after all).

I'll say it again though, if you come around a corner to something in your way that you can't stop for or evade then YOU are going too fast for your vision and you will hit something eventually... or would it also be a down trees fault when you hit it?

 

[chad66]

I consider a down tree natural, an "act of god", a snow bike on the trail going 4mph that shouldn't be there is different, they put themselves in harms way.

I've heard MQT area has nice snowbike trails, glad the riders in that area are making the effort to make their sport safe.

Chad@M&M

 

[skidoolouie]

Another reason for those to keep loud cans on sleds to save a life.

 

[ranlam]

Another reason for those to keep loud cans on sleds to save a life.

LMAO. good point louie!

 

[Ricardo]

Don't even go there!

 

[longtrack]

Another reason for those to keep loud cans on sleds to save a life.

I was within 50ft of a Cross Country Skier last Month with my 4 Stroke before he heard me. I think he jumped about 6 inches when he turned around and saw I was so close. Bet he stayed on the side of the Trail for awhile after that. I think that new silent Drive Track on the Grand Touring is very silent.

 

[440_chazz]

For the snowmobile clubs and associations I see fat tire bikes as a revenue maker. If these fat bikers want to use snowmobile trails for their use, then they should be paying their fair share to use them. It is the snowmobile clubs that establish the trail asking permission, brushing, staking, signing and grooming. That right there is a typical snowmobile club's operating expense. If the bike clubs want to use sled trails they should be paying the clubs for that use. In turn clubs should mandate certain rules to the bikers such as snowmobiles have the right of way and high visibility clothing is required (ANSI Class III).

 

[jlrotax583]

440_chazz, all

My thoughts also!
I Fat Bike and Snowmobile and I think the Michigan Snowmobile Assc and other state Assoc. are missing out on a huge windfall.

Anyone using any vehicle on the "Paid for groomed trails" should be required to have a Trail Sticker or face the usual fine. (Maybe a lesser sticker price based on the fact that Fat Bikes do very little damage and this would ease the intial bitching from them)

This needs to be addressed by the MSA ASAP because it would be 2-3 years out from being implemented if started right now.

MSA should even change there name to MSTA(Mich Snow Trails Assoc.) Hopefully many new engaged members would join. $$$

Lets face it, we (through the MSA) are loosing our access to land and down on money to fund lobby/buy easements ECT.
Fact: These are generally mixed use trails and Fat Bikers are going to be out there regardless so you might as well get them to Pony Up.

Although you can forget about snowmobilers having the right of way. The slower mover always has this privilege.

Since we are our own worst enemies, hopefully if more non Snowmobilers use the trails, and with awareness, the excessive speeds will come down in general and many more families can enjoy the winter outdoors and more access can be gained. (I know wishful thinking)

I know, can of worms, but I don't see how we and the MSA/Trails are sustainable going forward. Just not enough new blood.

My .02
Jon

 

[sjb]

For the snowmobile clubs and associations I see fat tire bikes as a revenue maker. If these fat bikers want to use snowmobile trails for their use, then they should be paying their fair share to use them. It is the snowmobile clubs that establish the trail asking permission, brushing, staking, signing and grooming. That right there is a typical snowmobile club's operating expense. If the bike clubs want to use sled trails they should be paying the clubs for that use. In turn clubs should mandate certain rules to the bikers such as snowmobiles have the right of way and high visibility clothing is required (ANSI Class III).

440 - if this were the case, I would agree. However, having been really big into mtn biking many years ago (raced the WORS and Chi chi series) I can say overall, most bikers won't pay a fee. I have been a part of many volunteer organizations and can say overall, biking groups are very cheap overall. You will have many people kicking and screaming for a $15 user fee, and complaince will be poor. Our best bet, have them on their own trails.

 

[whitedust]

So far in Vilas it has not been a problem & some private owned fat tire trails so far keeps them separate from sleds. Probably will be a problem as fat bikes get more popular.

 

[fish633]

Keep the bikes off the trails.Safety is the biggest concern but also think of this.The bicycle people are in bed with the silent sports crowd.We are the anti-christ to that group.The bicycle manufacturer's spend large sums of money lobbing legislation against motorized recreation.Lets not get so wrapped in collecting a few extra dollars that we squander control of the trail system
something the motorized industry built.

 

[ddhanna]

Keep the bikes off the trails.Safety is the biggest concern but also think of this.The bicycle people are in bed with the silent sports crowd.We are the anti-christ to that group.The bicycle manufacturer's spend large sums of money lobbing legislation against motorized recreation.Lets not get so wrapped in collecting a few extra dollars that we squander control of the trail system
something the motorized industry built.

X2 Incompatible use IMO and agree with the silent sports comment. FYI, Oneida Cty WI just passed an ordinance that specifically prohibits them on snowmobile trails.

 

[sweeperguy]

I would say its okay for fat bikes to be on the sled trails BUT the bicycle mentality has to be changed. The bicycles on city streets are suppose to follow traffic rules and they do not. If fat bikes are allowed on snowmobile trails some of them will get run over and hurt. If they are suppose to stay to the right side, they won't, and I would bet they would also ride two, three, and four abreast. Then when they do get hit it's going to be the snowmobilers fault. Even if they are doing something wrong. Now I know that alot of people out there on sleds ride too fast, and maybe don't always have full control. But if they hit another sled, that other person has pn a helmet, and has the sled to help absorb some of the impact. A biker would be killed. IMO it would be a VERY BAD idea to allow bikes on snowmobile trails. Just asking for trouble, and we have enough issues already as things are.

 

[jlrotax583]

Best case scenario is that we have 2 separate trail systems and all parties respect that.

Reality is, Fatbikes are growing fast and WILL be on MULTI USE trails more and more. (groomed or not).
Right now, we have the opportunity to drive the process of trail use.

If we sit back and do nothing, the first few Snowmobile/Fatbike incidences will get the attention of Non-Snowmobilers and then we are inviting other factions
(Fatbike,snowshoe,skiers, side by sides with ski's (which the MSA is addressing right now.)) to jump in and run with the ball.
They will be the first to lobby Multi Use since most of the Snow trails are Multi Use, and we risk losing trails access with no say.
Think speed limits and closed trails for Bikes only.

The cycling community is as fragmented as Snowmobilers. Mountian Bikes/Fat Bikes vs Roadies Cross Country vs Downhill/Enduro Shorts vs Spandex ect....
Snowmobilers- Ricky Racers vs Family tourers Drag/Top end vs CC 2 stroke v 4 stroke ect...
My point is don't look at one genre as a threat. We can all get along. Mountain bikers fight the same (and in many cases worse) land battles that Snowmobilers do.
Lots of cyclists are killed on the roads, and in most cases according to the Law, it is not the cyclists fault.
If we can Coexist on the Public roads, Snow Trails should be easy with awareness.
More people outside the better IMHO.

Jon

 

[whitedust]

You would have to have a death wish to ride a fatbike on WI & MI snomo twisty trails. Would not work on Vilas trails on a busy weekend to mix bikes & sleds. Fat bikes don't need much room & would prefer short loop trails to me they will set up bike only snow trails & deal with thier own grooming issues. Just like snowshoe & xcounty ski trails are separate from Snowmobile trails in WI fatbikes will be the same. I don't like Atvs & sleds on the same trails in Jackson & Clark counties & don't go there anymore.

 

[scoot]

Whenever this topic comes up on here it always makes me smile. In the years that fat bikes have been around, I think I've seen ONE on a snowmobile club trail, (a non Multi Use Trail, or MUT) and he was pulled off to the side because he heard my sled coming. As a snowmobiler and a fat bike cyclist, all of the fat bike guys I know and ride with are guys like myself, who are either getting out of snowmobiling and or looking for new ways to enjoy the winter. And they all know its against the law, and agree that riding a bike on a snowmobile club trail is a bad idea. Thats why we are working to install new bike trails of our own. There is nothing more satisfying than being actively involved in a sport just starting out, similar to my experience when snowmobiling was starting out in the 60s and 70s. As for the multi use trails, (speaking from my experience, locally at least), many of the MUT trails were originally developed for and envisioned as NON motorized trails that the local snomo clubs campaigned to gain access to in the winter. Now with the advent of the new fatbikes that can travel in the snow, and DO PAY a $20 fee per year to ride the bike trails in Wisconsin, including the MUTs, my suggestion is to prepare to start seeing them on the MUT trails and play nice. If ya get my drift....
But why cyclists would want to share a trail with the same people that I'm attempting to get away from is beyond me.

PS... You probably won't see us winter fat tire cyclists posting on the "Did you get fat this winter?" thread.