Now I know New Years is not an ideal weekend for ideal trail conditions but..... there seemed to be a dividing line of where good grooming quit and grooming or groomer issues begins. Trail 3 from Greenland to the first road crossing past the Mosquito was almost perfection the entire weekend, once you cross the road it went to say the least less than desirable trail conditions and was like this only worse last season and that was in mid february. I gave it about 5 miles and turned around when I talked to a family who was heading south and they said it was that way all the way to Houghton. You can't blame traffic or snow because somehow whomever grooms 3 from Mosquito to Greenland managed to keep the trail in almost perfect condition the whole weekend.
Groomer or Grooming issue north of Mosquito
- Thread starter euphoric1
- Start date
mezz i agree with throttle jockies in certain areas but I don't think that whatever road that is that this is where the jockies start and stop, i mean it was that night and day difference. And please don't think I am blaming the operator, there is obviously something not being done or being done differently. Im surprised no one else has chimed is as everywhere we stopped people were complaining about it.
Actually you can blame traffic, but also have to add timing. Perhaps you take the same route 4-6 hours earlier or later and the conditions could easily be different. It seems like many folks think that once the trail is groomed it will remain in good shape for 12+ hours. With heavy traffic, a trail up here can go from pool table flat to two foot moguls in less than 2 hours. I have personally observed this years ago about a mile north of Mohawk.
John I agree with traffic and timing and believe me I'm not trying to piss anyone off by any means or point fingers but the same amount of traffic heads south and north as there are no real junctions, or areas where traffic would be introduced to that stretch and if traffic is to blame the section of 3 from that point all the way to Greenland was almost perfect the whole weekend and saw the same amount of traffic as section leading to it. And as I stated it was worse in the same area last season during the week in mid Feb.
Oh I believe you 100 percent! What you experienced was the complete and total dedication of a couple of groomer operators. Richard Krupp is one and I do not know the name of the other(s). The stretch into and out of Twin Lakes have been Richards pride and joy for about as long as he owned the resort. He no longer is owner, but is still as dedicated to those sections of trail! So I raise my glass to Richard and his coworker(s)!
goofy600
Well-known member
This is more of a question John may be able to answer, could they have gotten a earlier start on south section compared to northern part you talk about, meaning took a while for bridge to get put down and maybe took them longer to get to grooming? Also conditions of snow will have a lot to do on snow setup? Feeling that pain by me right now.
that's kinda what I thought at the time and someone had told me the same when we stopped at the Mosq
Yep a hand-off point from one club to another.
Is the bridge filled with snow for sled crossings? If not hat could be a issue with the trail conditions also! However the groomer can cross with vehicle traffic.
mezz
Well-known member
Yes, the mat has been laid down & snow has been hauled in with the help of the City of Houghton crews. BTW, the stretch from the bug bar & Houghton is highly traveled to & from Houghton, perhaps another added explanation for it deteriorating quicker than the section North of Toivola.
Good deal with the bridge snowmobile ready. So, do you mean the Bug Bar is drawing all the traffic, from Houghton, and then back, eh? I would venture to say that there is just as much traffic to, and from the Bug Bar towards Twin Lakes, and Greenland? Just my experience.
Trails can go south quick. Last Thursday from Rous to the pit stop was pretty darn good for what little snow the groomer had to work with. We had lunch and no drinks. The trail was trashed in that short of time Headed back to the Rous. From there we plucked at roads. Same with the way up that way. One of the reasons the trails near Sidnaw are good,is there isn’t any hotels and very few bars and restaurants. The groomer heads out as they are rolling up the side walks. Same thing with La’nce to big bay. The trail has all night to set up and doesn’t see much night traffic. So much traffic coming in and out of the lift bridge area. That’s where the hotels are.
old abe, I agree with you 200% and this is the point I was trying to make as you stated " I would venture to say that there is just as much traffic to, and from the Bug Bar towards Twin Lakes and Greenland? Just my experience" and that is spot on! and why then the dividing line? you cant blame traffic for the reason you stated, you can't blame snow conditions, you can't blame terrain and yes I agree with above statements how trails can deteriorate. and as john stated the groomer drivers in the Twin Lakes to Greenland area have made that section their pride and joy. That says it all, there is obviously something being done differently, maybe timing of grooming? I don't know and I'm not saying I have the answer or can do better but there is something off there and to be quite honest is deterring me from going that way any further and will stay south as this is the second year it has been this way. The family we stopped was with small children, had older sleds and the look on their face was frustration and I had assured them it was smooth about five miles down, we met up with them at the Bug Bar and I had told them it was flat from here on down and they could do the 13 loop as for one wash out area it was also good and their response was "oh no, we have to go back the way we came and it will take a while to get back as we have to go slow because of trail conditions" traffic and snow are not the issues here IMO if the guys from Twin Lakes area can manage to keep near perfection on their section the entire weekend maybe they should find out what they are doing that's different, there I said it, and again im not saying I can do better I just would like to see change as we do like riding north, we are there to ride not to trailer and its not worth beating up my body or my sled to get somewhere. IMO
Yeah, well, euphoric1, the DNR set up the different grooming areas/districts many years back along with MISCA. Snowmobile clubs, and Tourism Councils within their area, Districts, do the grooming with DNR funds, and donations. I don't want to spoil things for you, however the trail from Greenland to Houghton, is one of the very most traveled, high snowmobile traffic trails in the UP period. And this is for many reasons. This area is blessed with LES snows. That provides for much of the continuous snowfall necessary for a "dependable" place to go to to ride whatever. Trail ride, off trail, or both. The "off trail sled" segment has gotten really huge in numbers as of lately. Mountain, off trail "deep" lug tracks require more snow than do normal trail sleds. The deep lug tracks can, and I said CAN, totally DESTROY a "perfectly groomed" trail in absolutely no time with reckless, abusive, unconcerned riding. Some people ride with respect of the trail conditions, and it makes a big difference with deep lug tracks. I know that those last sentences are going to start a angry fire storm with some, but it is TRUE FACT! I have witnessed it so many times, over many years. Not by all riders, but it takes only a very few to do so. The increased numbers of the deep lug track, off trail sleds in the last 10 years has just made it much worse. This even as the grooming equipment continues to improve. I know of many Grooming Operators, who absolutely agree with all of what I have stuck my neck out, and said here. Many are just plain frustrated, such as all the time they spend grooming. Anyone who argues that being not true is in Fantasy Land. The longer the fresh "GROOM" gets to "SET UP", the much better it holds its groom condition. So there are many issues that effect trail conditions. High, very high traffic, the time of day grooming, groom set up time, and weather etc. These all have a big bearring on the "trail condition". I will say this, the people of the Superior Snowmobile Club, are the utmost dedicated to, and very proud of their grooming duties. As other clubs, groups are also, but some not as much as others. I will now go find a safe place to hide, as some will want to crucify me for this post!. No harm intended, and nothing personal. Go ride, enjoy, and be safe! With all that, I say SO WHAT, eh!
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