How is trail grooming managed?

[Hoosier]

I read people talk about paid groomers or volunteer groomers, grooming done at night vs the day. I'm wondering how all that is managed, mostly for WI and MI or maybe MN. Many like to complain about groomers (trail groomers not the other kind) but I don't think many including myself understand what goes in to making a trail smooth. Trail grooming to me seems like a thankless job as everyone likes to whine but not figure out how to help.

Funding: I'm assuming trails are managed by clubs, and funding comes into the clubs either from the state/DNR from trail permits or registration or perhaps gas taxes, or it comes in from donations or fundraising. For funds coming from the DNR, it is based on miles of trails or miles groomed? Do they send more based on traffic or amount of snow - what's involved in determining this? Do they get X dollars for a season or is that variable based on weather?

Paid vs volunteer - is this determined by the club, with some kind of assessment of what they can afford?

Equipment - same as above - is this determined by the club based on their budget? Or does the DNR impact this?

How often to groom - night groom vs day groom - trails can never be groomed enough based on how you hear people talking. But who makes the call on when to send the groomer out? I assume the night vs day is at least partly a function of what help the club can get.

How can we as rider help out? Donating time or money, watching how and when we ride?

Anything else to know? Thanks.

 

[pclark]

1st, Making trails smooth for people that don't understand and complain is a thankless job.

In Wisconsin, Clubs are all volunteer (Correct me if I am wrong)
Trails, grooming, training programs, brushing, maintenance is funded through the DNR program until money runs out
All clubs also fund the same and are paid back through the state partially (I think it's $300 per mile now)
All Clubs have their own fundraisers to help with expenses and buy their own grooming equipment
Trails are put in by the clubs and brushed and signed by them as well
In the northwoods grooming is typically done at night when the temps allow the trails to set up (see pic below, These were taken this morning, it a low of 14 degrees last night)
Some clubs in high traffic areas do groom during the day, not sure why, because an hour later you would not know it
Clubs have a schedule and experienced groomer drivers that go out as per schedule (Monday-Thursday is best time to see nice trails)
Snowmobilers can help by joining a club and contributing to trail work, etc
Riders can also act responsibly while riding and try not to rip up the trail at every stop sign (Moguls are created by snowmobilers and how they ride)

That is the short version and I'm others will add their 2 cents to their area, I believe in Michigan some clubs do pay their groomer operators.

 

[wisco-mb]

Good questions.
Pclark is correct. $300 a mile now.
In WI, funding comes from the DNR. Typically that goes to the county coordinator, and they distribute the funds. SNARS is the online reporting the clubs use. The county coordinator will approve that. Not all trails are funded though. Club trails are 100% responsible of the club, along with their equipment. Technically the funded trails are "owned" by the DNR, and the clubs get paid to maintain them.
With the trail pass, there has been a huge increase in new trails funded. It's usually a mix of north and south.
You can see where the money goes here: https://awsc.org/getmedia/84de567e-aa83-44f9-aea4-96275940332f/AWSCSpringConvention2022DNR.pdf
Many forget that in 2014, there were absolutely no program funds for any projects because our fund was depleted. Also forgotten by some was the horrible pro-rate that our organizations faced in receiving supplemental funds applied for in high-use areas. Many still don’t understand that Wisconsin’s snowmobile trail system is provided and maintained in the form we know today, by our AWSC volunteer member clubs.

This one is a little outdated(before the trail pass, and $300 increase), but gives some good info. https://awsc.org/AWSC/media/Images/Photos/UNDERSTANDING-THE-SNOWMOBILE-PROGRAM.pdf

Once that $300 a mile is depleted, they can apply for supplemental. AWSC is currently asking for an increase in that. That will be a state statue. There is a link in misc section that a member posted.

 

[euphoric1]

1st, Making trails smooth for people that don't understand and complain is a thankless job.

In Wisconsin, Clubs are all volunteer (Correct me if I am wrong)
Trails, grooming, training programs, brushing, maintenance is funded through the DNR program until money runs out
All clubs also fund the same and are paid back through the state partially (I think it's $300 per mile now)
All Clubs have their own fundraisers to help with expenses and buy their own grooming equipment
Trails are put in by the clubs and brushed and signed by them as well
In the northwoods grooming is typically done at night when the temps allow the trails to set up (see pic below, These were taken this morning, it a low of 14 degrees last night)
Some clubs in high traffic areas do groom during the day, not sure why, because an hour later you would not know it
Clubs have a schedule and experienced groomer drivers that go out as per schedule (Monday-Thursday is best time to see nice trails)
Snowmobilers can help by joining a club and contributing to trail work, etc
Riders can also act responsibly while riding and try not to rip up the trail at every stop sign (Moguls are created by snowmobilers and how they ride)

That is the short version and I'm others will add their 2 cents to their area, I believe in Michigan some clubs do pay their groomer operators.
View attachment 68229
View attachment 68230

Once again pclark...pictures of PURE PERFECTION!!! WOW!!

 

[SHOOT2KILL]

Well theres a little more to the story regarding how/why the state implemented the SNARS program along with the GTS ( groomer tracking system )...Unfortunately just like everything else in todays world there are a few UNSAVORY humans trying to beat the system, especially when there are literally millions of dollars involved...The FRAUDULANT billing for grooming mileage became rampant...More than a few clubs got caught...Sooooo the DNR was forced to implement those 2 programs...Now in the state of Wi in order to receive your $300.00 per mile grooming reimbursement All clubs are required to have a GPS tracker installed on their groomers...The consumer can now register on the GTS website and get up to date grooming info from all clubs and county's in the state...Although it's not realtime info, it's actually color coded overlays of each counties trail system that has different colors for 24...48...72 hour grooming info...There's also additional funding provided to clubs via a gas tax...I believe each registered sled gets $50.00...Unfortunately IMO that gas tax doesn't go far enough...Were all on the hook for the fuel taxes we pay while traversing the state heading to riding destinations...There needs to be a way to somehow disburse some of those taxes back to the clubs also...Personally I spent almost $4000.00 just in Truck fuel driving all over this state to ride...(17 counties this season)

 

[ddhanna]

Lots of good questions and answers here. A few comments regarding the above.

Labor is not all volunteer. Many clubs, especially in the north, pay their groomers. We have been doing it for 15 or 20 years. Much of our paid grooming happens on Friday and Saturday nights when it is harder to get volunteers.

Clubs own their equipment with one exception that I know of which is Sawyer County where the county alliance owns everything and the clubs just use it. Equipment purchases are by far the biggest expense that clubs face.

The DNR only administers the program which is defined by state law. They also are tasked with education and enforcement. The Snowmobile Recreation Council (SRC) provides program direction such as which projects will be funded (bridges, etc.). The SRC directs the DNR to pay the counties who in turn pay the clubs based on miles of trails. Clubs are reimbursed for expenses up to $300 per mile (or $900 with supplemental) based on their input into the SNARS system which SHOOT2KILL describes. The DNR does not own trails. Clubs secure land use agreements (not easements) from both private and public landowners who retain their property ownership.

WISCO-MB describes a depleted fund in 2014. There was not adequate money for trail maintenance, projects (bridges, etc.), new miles of trails (etc.). The trail pass system rescued the program funding. Without it, many clubs likely would have gone belly up. I was against trail passes in the beginning but absolutely love them now.

There is much more to the program but I've never seen it all described in one place. Best to poke around AWSC.org or get involved with a club or both.

 

[eyeman]

First I wish to say thank you to those dedicated club members/groomer/donors and landowners. Great folks that do what they do to make our sport as pleasant as it is. Awesome folk!!! We've all ridden some pretty tough trail conditions at times. I never complain and assume the trail boss in simply not in the know, can't get operators, they have equipment problems and/or have real issues that are out of their control. I also stick an extra 5 spot in the club donation jar and ask the bartender to pass along my appreciation to those leaders that do what they do.

Great information above, confirming my observations that some trails are just getting groomed for the sake of collecting mileage funding. Redundant trails leading to the same destinations paralleling the same trails with the same landscape across the almost exact terrain. We have to assume that traffic and trails are now being tracked/monitored by the DNR, and trails that need to be groomed due to traffic and/or condition as well as the trails that are being groomed just because. I hope the system recognizes GPS trackers that might be simply put on a sled and run around just to collect the $300/mile.

Thanks again to the awesome folks that allow me, my family and friends to have such fun in the winter wonderland. What a March we've had.

 

[2TrakR]

MI version:
Snow Program receives funding from Snowmobile Registrations, Trail Permit Sales and Gas Tax. Trail Permit sales are the largest percentage.
DNR manages the program.
Clubs are volunteers, they are the grant sponsors of the program. They report to the DNR and should be working with the DNR to establish grooming schedules, maintenance items and other concerns. Generally the DNR is hands off on setting grooming schedules with the belief the Club will know best, but it varies by area.
The Program has a handbook on specs for brushing, signing and grooming. Some things are recommendations, like grooming at night; some things are required, like placement of stop signs.
Program pays for all signs and posts.
Clubs are reimbursed $90/mile for brush/sign. Yearly-variable rate for grooming reimbursement. This season it was $6.16/mile for grooming.
Snow Program will pay 100% for power unit and drag; has done cost share before; wait list is pretty long. Clubs can/do buy their own equipment but obviously prefer Program funded machines. Program won't pay for lots of related equipment like brushers.
Some Clubs pay their operators, some do not. That $6.16/mile does not go very far, our Club was running around $4.50/mile for just diesel, not counting oil, hydraulic fluid, other maintenance items.
Snow Program did a pilot program with GPS Data loggers this season, have not been able to access our machine's data to see. Have not heard much from other clubs on good/bad of it.
Clubs are supposed to notify their DNR contact when they are grooming and also report monthly on activity. The monthly reports include monthly reimbursement requests, so the Club is footing the bill for the month's activities, usually reimbursement hits midway through the following month.

 

[pclark]

I would also add that whatever re-imbursment the clubs get for trail work it is a fraction of what you may think it is. When I was Trailmaster we ended up buying screws, using our own chainsaws, oil, gas, etc in addition to trailering around and storing everything (This was in a SE WI County) where trail signs and stakes generally get put in and pulled when the season is over. You can request re-imbursement, sometimes it just get forgotten and the guys that do it do so because they like doing it, not because they expect to paid. No complaints here because I loved it and so did my group and we had 13 miles of the best marked trails in our area.

 

[goofy600]

2TrakR pretty much nailed it for Michigan one thing I will add is in a lot of areas DNR owns or has long standing leases and such. If any part of the trail systems need repair, through the grant program you can request money to have these done. There is a lot that the dnr will pay for but there is still a lot that comes from club money.

 

[goofy600]

One of the biggest problems most clubs will tell you they have is getting help from the preseason brushing and signing to getting drivers to cover all grooming shifts. As to time to groom yes the later the better as usually colder and less traffic to help groom set up but if you only can get a person to groom during the day that’s what you have to deal with. My club has 2 routes that we do daily some clubs have even more to deal with and I would say in the western UP most runs take 6-9 hours and I would bet some are way longer than that even. Something one of my drivers learned in some research on grooming is that it takes about 11 hours when it is 26 degrees out for a groom to setup so there is a lot that goes into getting good trails.

 

[2TrakR]

If any part of the trail systems need repair, through the grant program you can request money to have these done. There is a lot that the dnr will pay for but there is still a lot that comes from club money.

Excellent points. Some of those major items (example: culverts) are multi-year deals on the grant. We have $5K in ours this year for erosion control on a few slopes, which is the max amount a Club can do on their grant without going out to bids and way more paperwork.
Might need to re-stress that last little bit - have we mentioned there is a ton of paperwork?
The cost for the Club to house the equipment (utilities, taxes, little items) let alone perform the equipment maintenance is substantial. They are _only_ in it to better the sport (not patting myself on the back, this is kudos to all those that do so) as it is a money-losing situation.

Our grooming run is typically 12 hours straight. That's a long time to bounce around in a cab for one person, who basically is not getting paid. I know some Clubs, that 12 hour run is 1-way, then you have to switch operators and figure the logistics out to get them home or that operator makes a return pass.

Also good points on the equipment like saws and other required hand tools. That $90/mile is supposed to cover that cost, but obviously that does not go far.
I neglected to mention insurance, the Program requires liability insurance as well as coverage on the equipment. That cost is a reimbursable expense.

 

[goofy600]

2TrakR if your don’t mind saying what club are you grooming for. I’m in Watersmeet with UP Thunder Riders.

 

[2TrakR]

Club is Great Lakes Dual Sporters, area is Atlanta (northeastern lower peninsula)