How would you vote

[bearrassler]

On Tuesday the 12th we have our election in North Dakota and there are a couple of initiated measures that are interesting. I already know how I am voting but would like to see what people from other states think. Measure #2 is a vote to abolish all property taxes in the state. Yes is to do away with them and no is to keep it the way it is now. We are blessed to be running a state budget surplus about equal to what the property taxes take in every year and the yes people say it will be a boon to economic devolopment and would help fixed income people stay in thier homes later in life, and the no people who are spending the most money say it will take away from local control. There are many other points on both sides but those are the main agruments.

Measure #4 would allow the University of North Dakota to retire the Fighting Sioux nickname. It has gone away from being hostile and abusive (what the NCAA says) to not being able to play teams from certain Universitys such as Minnesota,Wisconsin, Iowa State and a few others that refuse to play teams with Indian names unless they are in the same conference. The people that want to keep the name include the majority of Sioux people who are in the process of suing the NCAA because they won't listen to the Sioux nation on this. A yes vote retires the nickname and a no vote keeps the state law to keep the nickname. Lets hear what you think.

 

[whitedust]

Simple you only tax when you need the money. Don't need the money don't tax & in fact may have to return the surplus money if you over tax so not sure about your state laws but seems like they need to be changed to reflect what you do with a surplus then no need to vote on this issue. Seems lke ND is backing into the issue & with no long term solution & wants to flipflop whenever & not comitt. FL does not have an income tax but tax everything you buy to raise the dough so all states are different.

Name your your state teams whatever you want who cares a non issue to me.

Where do the stand on gay marriage? LOL Only kidding no need to respond.D)

 

[jr37]

It would be nice to not have to pay property taxes. But, how hard will it be to have it re-instated after the oil boom is over and the tax money is needed. I think leave the taxes alone. Use the extra money on roads, school upgrades, etc., something that would be difficult to do under normal budgets.

The nickname for teams is what ever you want it to be. As long as it is not vulgar.

 

[Skylar]

I would leave the taxes the way they are, people are use to it, use the money for other things.

The high school I gradutaed from were called the Portage Warriors, eith a indian chief head for the symbol, they had to change the symbol awile back, to a knight. It really bothered me that they had to do this. That being said, if the fricken Sioux nation says they support the idea of keeping the nickname the fighting Sioux, then keep it!! Screw the NCAA!

 

[mezz]

I would leave the taxes the way they are, people are use to it, use the money for other things.

The high school I gradutaed from were called the Portage Warriors, eith a indian chief head for the symbol, they had to change the symbol awile back, to a knight. It really bothered me that they had to do this. That being said, if the fricken Sioux nation says they support the idea of keeping the nickname the fighting Sioux, then keep it!! Screw the NCAA!

x2 on both accounts.-Mezz

 

[dcsnomo]

On Tuesday the 12th we have our election in North Dakota and there are a couple of initiated measures that are interesting. I already know how I am voting but would like to see what people from other states think. Measure #2 is a vote to abolish all property taxes in the state. Yes is to do away with them and no is to keep it the way it is now. We are blessed to be running a state budget surplus about equal to what the property taxes take in every year and the yes people say it will be a boon to economic devolopment and would help fixed income people stay in thier homes later in life, and the no people who are spending the most money say it will take away from local control. There are many other points on both sides but those are the main agruments.

Measure #4 would allow the University of North Dakota to retire the Fighting Sioux nickname. It has gone away from being hostile and abusive (what the NCAA says) to not being able to play teams from certain Universitys such as Minnesota,Wisconsin, Iowa State and a few others that refuse to play teams with Indian names unless they are in the same conference. The people that want to keep the name include the majority of Sioux people who are in the process of suing the NCAA because they won't listen to the Sioux nation on this. A yes vote retires the nickname and a no vote keeps the state law to keep the nickname. Lets hear what you think.

Here is Measure #2:
The measure as it will appear on the ballot reads:[6]
This initiated constitutional measure would amend sections 1, 4, 14, 15, and 16 of Article X of the North Dakota Constitution and repeal sections 5, 6, 7, 9, and 10 of that same article, eliminating property taxes, poll taxes, and acreage taxes, effective January 1, 2012. The measure would require the Legislative Assembly to replace lost revenue to cities, counties, townships, school districts, and other political subdivisions with allocations of various state-level taxes and other revenues, without restrictions on how these revenues may be spent by the political subdivisions.
YES – means you approve the measure as summarized above.
NO – means you reject the measure as summarized above.

I added the emphasis, and have not studied this, but I would ask:

1)It is not a tax cut. The state must implement or raise other taxes to compensate for the loss of revenue. Which taxes go up how much?
2)It eliminates the local municipalities' source of revenue which is locally controlled and replaces it with state revenue which is Bismark controlled. While local entities would be allowed to determine how the state money is spent locally, how and who will determine the AMOUNT to be collected?
3) Why doesn't the State just release the surplus to local governments now, requiring an in-kind reduction in property taxes?
4) Getting rid of an entire tax structure would be cool
5) Eliminating the property tax and replacing it with higher income and sales taxes would shift the tax burden from low earning, low consuming property owners (retirees, fixed income) to those citizens that earn and spend (younger families). What is the impact of that on the economy?

But, you asked "How would I vote?", and to be fair I was totally unfamiliar with this until you posted it. But you asked, so here goes- Given that the Legislature has not imposed property tax limits (like WI), and given that the Legislature has $400M in oil money surplus which does not seem to be making its way to the local municipalities, I would vote "yes" and just toss the sh*t in the fan. But, I'll bet you 5 years from now I will wish I had voted no when schools are underfunded and local roads and infrastructure is beginning to crumble.

As to the Fighting Sioux- North Dakota (my birth state, btw) has a rich heritage of life on the prairie, settlers making a life for themselves, and damn fine hockey! I always felt the Fighting Sioux paid homage to native Americans as the Sioux nation is a major part of ND and who they are. It is no different than the Fighting Irish! I would tell the NCAA to pound sand.

The Sioux have appeared in the NCAA tournament 27 times and the Frozen Four 19 times, and won seven NCAA Division I Championships, 15 WCHA Regular Season Championships and 10 WCHA Tournament Championships
Hey NCAA, I gotcher Fighting Sioux right here!

 

[MZEMS2]

x2 on both accounts.-Mezz

X3 on both counts as well. It's beyond me why the indian names had to be abolished...I would think they would consider it a compliment to name a team after them.
As for taxes, once you remove a tax, it'll be like pulling teeth to re-instate a tax. Use the surplus money wisely to maintain the current tax rates

 

[rocketman356]

We could have many states with this problem if we vote out a bunch of aholes this fall and reign in this out of control EPA.

 

[dcsnomo]

We could have many states with this problem if we vote out a bunch of aholes this fall and reign in this out of control EPA.

What problem?

 

[anonomoose]

Anyone who has EVER been closely associated with Government and Government spending knows that time and time again, they will INVENT a reason to spend the money if the Government leaders find money they didn't have to spend.

Surplus? What is that?

There is NO such thing as a good tax....and our founding fathers fought a revolutionary war to get away from taxes.

If any of those founding fathers were around today, they would be considered subversives and would be tracked by our own government.

There IS no fair way to assess taxes, nor is there a fair way to spend those taxes when they get levied.

Florida, Tennessee, and Alaska and a couple others don't have a state income tax but they sure do have some nice fat sales taxes.

If you stop and think about it...why should any property be taxed? Let's remove a tax that helps to inhibit purchasing property (which isn't very healthy at the moment) and sock tax on water and cloths and shoes.

Then we could all lay around jaybird naked, drinking beer...rather than water, and wash each others dirty smelly feet.

On second thought.....keep the property taxes! I just made myself sick on the last idea.

Now who is suing WHOM? What's dat got to do with sports and some Irish bums who can't win a ball game even when they are graced by the priests??

 

[Cat600]

Leave the taxes on, eventually you'll run out of money if you don't, then people will complain that they will have to start paying again. Better to have money coming in then not at all.

Keep the name as it is, its so stupid that names are coming under attack when most of the time the name is used to inspire, not attack. I know a lot of high schools were pissed here in Wisconsin when they were forced to change names because 1 fool somehow got something up his butt and got offended, and probably isn't even a part of the supposed offended people.

 

[fish633]

We could have many states with this problem if we vote out a bunch of aholes this fall and reign in this out of control EPA.

X2

 

[ezra]

times 4 what planet do you people live on
spend it on other things give it to the teachers union or the fire department union the police union or my fav save it yeah that will hapen the state gives you the opportunity to shrink the scope of government in you don't want to do it
anytime there is an opportunity to repeal a taxs you do it

 

[98panther]

Wow first time ever I have heard you can end a tax and you think you should leave it just because?

Taxes aren't a saving account. The State will pizz it away on something if you leave it in their hands.
And then whatever they spent it on you will be forever paying for that over and over.

If they don't need it - they owe it to you back.
If it is needed later, fine then they can fight to start a new tax.

 

[yamahauler]

I say leave it the way it is. What should happen which 98panther touched on is a refund. If the general fund is X% of the budget as a surplus, the rest should be refunded
to you. That way you don't have people complaining when they have to start being taxed again.

The name....well, these people that think it needs to be changed should walk of a cliff.

 

[bearrassler]

I can add a couple of things, our state budget has doubled in the last 10 years, and we voted in a legacy fund of 30% of the oil revenues that started in 2011, they projected a balance of 618 million at the end of our bienium but now it looks like it will be around 860 million at that time. The state can't touch that money until 2017 and then only with a 2/3 vote by both houses. Even with that we are still building a budget surplus way beyond projections. If this fails I think we will see major tax reforms of some sort in the future, it just depends on where.

As for the Fighting Sioux nickname, the biggest issue now is not the NCAA sanctions, it is schools like Minnesota and Wisconsin that refuse to play us because they are politically correct that is the biggest issue.

 

[dcsnomo]

Remember- This measure does not change the AMOUNT of taxation in ND, it changes the STRUCTURE of taxation in ND.

"The measure would require the Legislative Assembly to replace lost revenue to cities, counties, townships, school districts, and other political subdivisions with allocations of various state-level taxes and other revenues"

What taxes would go up? Most likely sales tax and income tax. So, the tax burden (same number of dollars) shifts from those that own property to those that earn income and buy stuff. From older to younger. From companies to people.

Still, I like the idea of repealing an entire tax system, although this will wreck havoc on local governments and school districts as they lose control of the amount of their tax dollars.

 

[whitedust]

As for the Fighting Sioux nickname, the biggest issue now is not the NCAA sanctions, it is schools like Minnesota and Wisconsin that refuse to play us because they are politically correct that is the biggest issue.

No probably not just the name but a convenient excuse .........just no money generation to play ND in any sport so why bother?

 

[Hoosier]

In Indiana, surpluses over a certain threshold are returned to taxpayers.

 

[Admin]

No probably not just the name but a convenient excuse .........just no money generation to play ND in any sport so why bother?

Oh, I think there may be a bit of money generated between the ND-WI-MN hockey teams. Maybe just a bit.

Getting back to the initial question. I am originally from Chicago and have thus been rigorously trained to vote early and often and only for whom or what I have been told to vote for.

-John