POLARISDAN
New member
heading up on the 15th..r the bridge and turn signs still gone? or did they change their mind and replace?
lets try this again
- Thread starter POLARISDAN
- Start date
I think I read in the latest MSA magazine that they plan to bring back the Bridge Ahead and perhaps the Drift Area signs for next season.
So far I think the new signing has worked out as they hoped. MI did not run out of body bags as predicted by some on this board (thankfully!) and it did seem to slow most down to a speed where THEY were responsible for anticipating what was ahead and not a sign holding their hands.
-John
So far I think the new signing has worked out as they hoped. MI did not run out of body bags as predicted by some on this board (thankfully!) and it did seem to slow most down to a speed where THEY were responsible for anticipating what was ahead and not a sign holding their hands.
-John
John's comments are spot on - at our December club meeting I asked this same question of our club president and he said the decision was no changes to MI signage for this season. Results were very good overall. "Bridge ahead" signs would be welcomed back though as this seemed to be the biggest problem area last year.
agriffinjd
New member
Are there supposed to be signs indicating 90-degree curves (those big arrows pointing left or right)? I've noticed them here and there so I don't know if there are signs missing where they are supposed to be, or if people have been putting them up on their own where they are not supposed to be.
Those are excellent additions John not much more needed.IMO
Drift area can put you over the bars on low contrast days. I never agreed with removal of Bridge Ahead very dangerous IMO for newbies.
Their goal was not to slow people down. It was to reduce clutter. That's all here say from other groups and not the authorities.
L
lenny
Guest
that's wrong, it was not the objective. here is what the reason was and this is a copy directly from the DNR website:
Our objective is to provide a safe, family-oriented trail system for snowmobiling in Michigan," said Bill Manson, executive director of the Michigan Snowmobile Association.
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anyone who would not associate speed with saftey should not even be on a trail in the first place.
MSA is not the authority period. The DNR is. MSA has no jurisdiction to do anything but report to the DNR. Ask them.
I know we discussed this last year time and time again. The undeniable FACT from the DNR (the only authority) is that it was to reduce sign clutter.
Now if by 'safe' the DNR put a quote from MSA, that is regarding the trail clutter as stated by the DNR.
Why is it sooooooooooooooooo hard to understand?????
L
lenny
Guest
It's because you will not read what the DNR said, lets try again, this oughta do it:
The changes were implemented based on recommendations submitted by a DNR citizens' advisory workgroup, comprised of motorized trail users, trail maintenance organizations, members of the DNR's Snowmobile Advisory Workgroup and the Michigan Snowmobile Association. Technical support for the workgroup was provided by recreation and law enforcement staff from the DNR and the U.S. Forest Service.
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The DNR asked for recommendations from these group and as a result from the info given by THESE groups a plan was implemented, a plan the DNR accepted. The DNR was not forced to do this, they asked for the recommendation and implemented the recommendation.
Here is more info form recommendation the DNR accepted:
Multiple chevrons are being replaced by two simple signals: 90 degree turn ahead and a directional arrow at the sight of the turn. Britton believes the lack of signs will force riders to be more aware of the conditions and take on more responsibility for their safety.
After studying similar programs in Wisconsin and Ontario, the Michigan Snowmobile Association found a decrease in signage led to a decrease in accidents.
Ron Yesney, the Recreation Management Specialist at the DNR, is a proponent of the philosophy and has gradually implemented their methods.
The changes were implemented based on recommendations submitted by a DNR citizens' advisory workgroup, comprised of motorized trail users, trail maintenance organizations, members of the DNR's Snowmobile Advisory Workgroup and the Michigan Snowmobile Association. Technical support for the workgroup was provided by recreation and law enforcement staff from the DNR and the U.S. Forest Service.
- - - Updated - - -
The DNR asked for recommendations from these group and as a result from the info given by THESE groups a plan was implemented, a plan the DNR accepted. The DNR was not forced to do this, they asked for the recommendation and implemented the recommendation.
Here is more info form recommendation the DNR accepted:
Multiple chevrons are being replaced by two simple signals: 90 degree turn ahead and a directional arrow at the sight of the turn. Britton believes the lack of signs will force riders to be more aware of the conditions and take on more responsibility for their safety.
After studying similar programs in Wisconsin and Ontario, the Michigan Snowmobile Association found a decrease in signage led to a decrease in accidents.
Ron Yesney, the Recreation Management Specialist at the DNR, is a proponent of the philosophy and has gradually implemented their methods.
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My point here is that the DNR didn't do as Britton said to force riders to be more aware of the conditions. The DNR did it to reduce clutter. Whether or not that is a bold faced lie based on all of this other published info or not...that is why they did it.
Regardless it's the dumbest thing ever. Uneducated riders will still die and be injured because of it.
Regardless it's the dumbest thing ever. Uneducated riders will still die and be injured because of it.
The people I ride with who don't visit snowmobile websites said they didn't even notice a difference last year. I brought it up since I saw it on here. I think the change was overblown. Of course Wisconsin needs more signs - with all the intersection trails and towns and businesses, I can't imagine them reducing the signs much there.
This is the first i've heard of "reducing clutter."
This is the first i've heard of "reducing clutter."
garyl62
Active member
Maybe this thread is going on for no reason other than to prove a point, but it seems like Lenny has a pretty good quote about multiple reasons including safety. I guess I'm wondering Polarice where you are getting the info from that makes you so committed in your view. While I don't want to argue about it, I just don't see you posting any evidence backing up your opinion. You seem pretty adamant in your viewpoint so I'm wondering where you got your information.
I got my info from public statements made last year from the DNR themselves. I'm not going to dig it up because it's been brought up time and time again from last years debate. I'm sure you could look at my statistics or the web in general and find it. You made a kind reply I'm just done. If logical people think that not having signs helps I can't argue with that kind of mentality.