ICT Sledder
Active member
They still trying for that? Wow!
Locked gates and no grooming north of Mohawk
- Thread starter ICT Sledder
- Start date
We were up this last weekend because we had a place rented and couldn't get out of it with out costing us!! First of all YES more snow is needed. We had to trailer to Vansville and park there. Got on 3 north to 132. 132 had a few trees down which we either moved, broke or just drove over. It took a few hours but we made it to Copper Harbor. Ate at the Mariner very good food and great service!! Then went up Brockway seeing others eating said they came from that way and cleared trail. At that point we didn't want to go back trough what we came through. Brockway was very light on snow in some areas it was black top. Carbide companies have to say in business too right. lol Came down back side no problems snow okay but very little of it. Saturday groomer had gone from Houghton to Travolia so they took that route and it wasn't terrible. Was able to go at speed at least. Further up on 3 near Mass City trail 3 got sporty. Some of our group came up early on Thursday to ride and found some open water/mud after the first sled broke it up. All in all we had fun!!
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Yes
Umm, if accuracy matters, that would be Toivola.
(Yeah, it's derived from "Toivo", the Finnish word for "Hope".)
That’s what you get early season that happened to us at Xmas years ago outside Silver City.
bonfire_weekend
New member
I frequent this site as a xc skier and Duluth-ian (JohnDee.com snow forecasts best forecasts), and sometimes drop in here to see the chatter.
Times have fundamentally changed for land ownership, maintenance of trail systems, and funding. I have close friends throughout the mountain bike community (from corporate level to regional leadership of trails), as well as an inside look into the fundraising/land ownership of the Superior Hiking Trail.
I have little to no understanding of how snowmobile grooming is organized or works, but it appears to be disparate groups with limited sections only a handful of people manage.
The keystone is organization of a coordinated regional non-profit entity. This is an absolute requirement for getting easements and working with cities. Cities are often willing to allow things to occur provided they have an entity to pin responsibility for maintenance and management of the land use*. It can't be "my retired 65 year old friend Al"--you need a corporate face with clear leadership and responsibility (a charter, even if volunteer only). This group also creates and manages dedicated fundraising efforts from corporate sponsors, city/state money, legacy grants, and individuals. It is the means by which people and company charitable contributions become tax write offs. A vital early fundraising effort is sustaining yearly membership of trail users. The primary objective is to generate enough fundraising to create a paid staff position, whose first focus in on additional fundraising.
Due to the changing climate and resort/vacation type access in the Keweenaw, this group should also likely include summer access for UTV/side-by-side/dirt bike as part of it's charter and objectives.
Polaris, Bombardier, Can-am--they can't sell vehicles unless people have a place to ride them.
The mountain bike industry understands this and the big corporate entities actively dump money into local trail expansion and maintenance non-profits.
COGGS, the mountain bike group of Duluth, who has been around for over two decades and exclusively used it's fundraising to pay for trail expansion and winter grooming equipment, this year was able finally bring on a single paid staff person. The Superior Hiking Trail has a handful of paid staff who fundraise and coordinate trail maintenance.
The hardest part about above is finding the right person for leadership of the group at the start. A clear vision, strong business acumen, and endless free time are required (lol).
While I have zero interest in snowmobiling, I really feel for everyone here. A loss of trails for one is a loss of trails for all.
EDIT:
I hit on fundraising several times, but I want to be clear what that money pays for: first, someone to be the active voice and leader of the importance of snowmobiling in the region. A volunteer cannot sustain this effort indefinitely. Second, coordinate dollars into areas of need--whether it be new grooming equipment, updated signage, maps, trail building, trail clearing, or as simple as feeding volunteers. Sustained yearly funds allow a group to plan for the future, not just the most immediate need. This inflection point is vital to sustain and expand access.
*This is really important (SHT deals with this regularly)--if a private land owner who has granted easement has issues with idiots, they need someone to call and complain. The "Great Keweenaw Trail Consortium" can be that ear and add signage and address the issues directly with the landowner. The city/county uses GKTC for this purpose too. You become the proverbial grease to keep the tracks moving.
Times have fundamentally changed for land ownership, maintenance of trail systems, and funding. I have close friends throughout the mountain bike community (from corporate level to regional leadership of trails), as well as an inside look into the fundraising/land ownership of the Superior Hiking Trail.
I have little to no understanding of how snowmobile grooming is organized or works, but it appears to be disparate groups with limited sections only a handful of people manage.
The keystone is organization of a coordinated regional non-profit entity. This is an absolute requirement for getting easements and working with cities. Cities are often willing to allow things to occur provided they have an entity to pin responsibility for maintenance and management of the land use*. It can't be "my retired 65 year old friend Al"--you need a corporate face with clear leadership and responsibility (a charter, even if volunteer only). This group also creates and manages dedicated fundraising efforts from corporate sponsors, city/state money, legacy grants, and individuals. It is the means by which people and company charitable contributions become tax write offs. A vital early fundraising effort is sustaining yearly membership of trail users. The primary objective is to generate enough fundraising to create a paid staff position, whose first focus in on additional fundraising.
Due to the changing climate and resort/vacation type access in the Keweenaw, this group should also likely include summer access for UTV/side-by-side/dirt bike as part of it's charter and objectives.
Polaris, Bombardier, Can-am--they can't sell vehicles unless people have a place to ride them.
The mountain bike industry understands this and the big corporate entities actively dump money into local trail expansion and maintenance non-profits.
COGGS, the mountain bike group of Duluth, who has been around for over two decades and exclusively used it's fundraising to pay for trail expansion and winter grooming equipment, this year was able finally bring on a single paid staff person. The Superior Hiking Trail has a handful of paid staff who fundraise and coordinate trail maintenance.
The hardest part about above is finding the right person for leadership of the group at the start. A clear vision, strong business acumen, and endless free time are required (lol).
While I have zero interest in snowmobiling, I really feel for everyone here. A loss of trails for one is a loss of trails for all.
EDIT:
I hit on fundraising several times, but I want to be clear what that money pays for: first, someone to be the active voice and leader of the importance of snowmobiling in the region. A volunteer cannot sustain this effort indefinitely. Second, coordinate dollars into areas of need--whether it be new grooming equipment, updated signage, maps, trail building, trail clearing, or as simple as feeding volunteers. Sustained yearly funds allow a group to plan for the future, not just the most immediate need. This inflection point is vital to sustain and expand access.
*This is really important (SHT deals with this regularly)--if a private land owner who has granted easement has issues with idiots, they need someone to call and complain. The "Great Keweenaw Trail Consortium" can be that ear and add signage and address the issues directly with the landowner. The city/county uses GKTC for this purpose too. You become the proverbial grease to keep the tracks moving.
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Well, now that the the time has passed and I finally saw how active this was back in mid-December, I feel qualified (as past Keweenaw Snowmobile Club board member for two decades+ and president for way too long!) to chime in on a few issues.
1) The only land that our trail system uses that is NOT private is trail 3 from Toivola to Houghton and trails 3/17 from Hancock to Lake Linden/Calumet. This means that the rest of our trails are on private property. Most of it is land used for logging and owned by companies who own the land and contract it out for the logging. They are not local and mainly worry about the bottom line and profits for their shareholders. There are local managers for these companies and they do all they can to accommodate the club when it comes to snowmobiling. In general, they make excellent partners for our recreational activity, including trying to make sure that any logging activity is finished by the time the snowmobile season starts. There are times when the loggers cannot finish up in time and sections of the trail have to remain closed. They did try keeping them open, but the idiots that could not wait the 20 seconds for things to be safe would drive under a clamshell loaded with 1000's of pounds of logs. Also, all of this is happening in the first few weeks of December when there is very low traffic (comparatively) and in some cases, not even enough snow to ride on. Such closures also happen on the order of once every 5 years or more. So as much feather ruffling as there was a few weeks ago in this thread, it was something that does not happen very often and did not last more than 2 1/2 weeks into the beginning of the season.
2) As for the bridge, the club is extremely luck to be able to use it! They have absolutely NO say in when it can be put down and used for snowmobile traffic. The ultimate final say lies with the US Coast Guard and when they call an end to the shipping season through the waterway (canal). In most years, the bridge can be lowered in time for the season, but no snow put on the lower section as the bridge still needs to be able to be lifted if needed and once the snow is on it, it is unbalanced and cannot be lifted. This year was unusual as there was road construction that was still ongoing and the bridge needed to be in the up position for that. Believe me when I say that the bridge crossing is as important to the club as anything when it comes to the trails, but until they get the go ahead to put snow on it, they cannot do anything.
3) Money...It's true that the Keweenaw is a mecca for snowmobiling and those snowmobilers bring in 100's of thousands of dollars to the local businesses. What is also true is that the club gets almost NONE of that back from the businesses. The only money that the club gets from the local businesses comes from the sales of ads on the snowmobile map. Take a look at the map and see if where you ate, drank or slept advertised on the map. It's a very sad situation. Next time you are up here, get a map and if you are staying, eating or drinking at a place that is not on the map, ask to speak with the manager and then ask them why. Let them know that it is shameful for them to accept money from snowmobilers while not doing anything to help the very club that makes that economic transaction possible. Also let them know that the next time you are up, you are not going to patronize their business until they decide to support the club! We snowmobilers talk the talk when it comes to sticking together to fight the good fight, but when it comes time for action, many seem to be able to find an excuse to opt out.
I cannot emphasize the issue about money enough. In my 20+ years on the board, it was a struggle every year to make ends meet and things have only gotten worse since I retired 18 months ago. I am not exaggerating when I say that the Keweenaw Snowmobile Club is VERY close to not being able to survive financially and there is no one that will step in. The DNR is not going to, nor will any local contractor. It is a financial black hole.
The podium is open again. Thanks for letting me speak!
-John Dee
1) The only land that our trail system uses that is NOT private is trail 3 from Toivola to Houghton and trails 3/17 from Hancock to Lake Linden/Calumet. This means that the rest of our trails are on private property. Most of it is land used for logging and owned by companies who own the land and contract it out for the logging. They are not local and mainly worry about the bottom line and profits for their shareholders. There are local managers for these companies and they do all they can to accommodate the club when it comes to snowmobiling. In general, they make excellent partners for our recreational activity, including trying to make sure that any logging activity is finished by the time the snowmobile season starts. There are times when the loggers cannot finish up in time and sections of the trail have to remain closed. They did try keeping them open, but the idiots that could not wait the 20 seconds for things to be safe would drive under a clamshell loaded with 1000's of pounds of logs. Also, all of this is happening in the first few weeks of December when there is very low traffic (comparatively) and in some cases, not even enough snow to ride on. Such closures also happen on the order of once every 5 years or more. So as much feather ruffling as there was a few weeks ago in this thread, it was something that does not happen very often and did not last more than 2 1/2 weeks into the beginning of the season.
2) As for the bridge, the club is extremely luck to be able to use it! They have absolutely NO say in when it can be put down and used for snowmobile traffic. The ultimate final say lies with the US Coast Guard and when they call an end to the shipping season through the waterway (canal). In most years, the bridge can be lowered in time for the season, but no snow put on the lower section as the bridge still needs to be able to be lifted if needed and once the snow is on it, it is unbalanced and cannot be lifted. This year was unusual as there was road construction that was still ongoing and the bridge needed to be in the up position for that. Believe me when I say that the bridge crossing is as important to the club as anything when it comes to the trails, but until they get the go ahead to put snow on it, they cannot do anything.
3) Money...It's true that the Keweenaw is a mecca for snowmobiling and those snowmobilers bring in 100's of thousands of dollars to the local businesses. What is also true is that the club gets almost NONE of that back from the businesses. The only money that the club gets from the local businesses comes from the sales of ads on the snowmobile map. Take a look at the map and see if where you ate, drank or slept advertised on the map. It's a very sad situation. Next time you are up here, get a map and if you are staying, eating or drinking at a place that is not on the map, ask to speak with the manager and then ask them why. Let them know that it is shameful for them to accept money from snowmobilers while not doing anything to help the very club that makes that economic transaction possible. Also let them know that the next time you are up, you are not going to patronize their business until they decide to support the club! We snowmobilers talk the talk when it comes to sticking together to fight the good fight, but when it comes time for action, many seem to be able to find an excuse to opt out.
I cannot emphasize the issue about money enough. In my 20+ years on the board, it was a struggle every year to make ends meet and things have only gotten worse since I retired 18 months ago. I am not exaggerating when I say that the Keweenaw Snowmobile Club is VERY close to not being able to survive financially and there is no one that will step in. The DNR is not going to, nor will any local contractor. It is a financial black hole.
The podium is open again. Thanks for letting me speak!
-John Dee
dfattack
Well-known member
I don't have the answers but we snowmobilers need to figure out a better way to manage this problem before it's too late. I realize there have been many dedicated smart individuals leading the system (all the clubs) in the past and I'm not taking anything away from their leadership, but maybe "we" can come up with some ideas on how to get more financial participation. Before anyone says it...I know most won't want to come up with one more penny but based on what john said...we should think about where we would be if these clubs do in fact fail due to lack of funding.
I for one don't think the government should be given any more money to manage, but does anyone have any ideas to somehow get more funding to the clubs? I would be interested in hearing ideas.
I for one don't think the government should be given any more money to manage, but does anyone have any ideas to somehow get more funding to the clubs? I would be interested in hearing ideas.
pclark
Well-known member
I don't have any knowledge of dealing with logging or the bridge issues but I can sympathize with you about the support from Businesses that actually step up and contribute to the map. I personally sold ads for our county's map and we had the same people every year support us. The ones that didn't we tried to explain why we needed their help but after asking 3-4 times you knew that it was lip service.
Running a club is tough and keeping it financially stable is even tougher. I will also sympathize with the businesses to a certain extent but you cant cut off the hand that feeds you if that makes sense.
Everyone needs to do their part otherwise it doesn't work. Add a lower snow total season start and you get farther behind. Lots of variables to deal with, hope it works out for you.
Running a club is tough and keeping it financially stable is even tougher. I will also sympathize with the businesses to a certain extent but you cant cut off the hand that feeds you if that makes sense.
Everyone needs to do their part otherwise it doesn't work. Add a lower snow total season start and you get farther behind. Lots of variables to deal with, hope it works out for you.
pclark
Well-known member
I would suggest getting the Snowmobile Manufacturers invovled as much as possible, without trails, less sales.
dfattack
Well-known member
Forgive me for not being educated in this subject but does Michigan have a different system to fund clubs than Wisconsin? Different state I get it but is the way clubs get funding similar?
If I'm not mistaken they pay their groomer operators which are county workers. The clubs here in Wisconsin all have volunteers drive our groomers but still get $ per mile depending on what equipment you're using to groom and how wide you are grooming them. I'm sure we would be hurting if we had to pay our drivers to be out there.
Groomer operators county workers, eh? NOT HARDLY! Yes some are paid, but the most are NOT!
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