any contractors in MN ever have a guy kill him self owing you cash?how do you file a intent to line to a dead guy?found out this guy owes over 400k and the house is prob only worth 200k and I am thinking no money to speak of.looking like I may be eating 4k on this one. no new sled this summer after this hit. bad time for a hit 4 days after giving uncle SAM more than his fair share.did I mention I am a bit pissed of tonight yeah a guy is dead but he drank him self to death on purpose
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mechanics lien in MN on a dead guy
- Thread starter ezra
- Start date
snobuilder
Well-known member
theres only one thing you can do,...cook up one a dem tasty recipes....
HIGHLANDER
Member
dont worry...pretty soon uncle sam will fix everyting for us
polarisrider1
New member
I have a lien on a house for going on 11 yrs. The Bank called last Summer and said they wanted to clear the title. They asked me to send them an Invoice plus any applicable interest charges. I charge 1.5% compounded monthly. Well there 6K bill has 23K in interest and growing. This was last summer, and the bank has not sent me anything. So I went over to the house last Oct. to act like a new neighbor saying "Hello". Found out the builder has been deported to India for issues there. (his real residence). He pulled a "Homeowners" permit for the house and did not even have a valid Michigan Builders License. The house value at the time was 550k, it is now worth 360k. The owners wife who answered the door said she and her husband seperated over this. They are from India and trusted this guy to build them a house. I went back this past Dec. and the house was empty. Went by there yesterday and still empty. No notices on door, no for sale sign, nothing. I suspect the bank is going to or already has auctioned it off. Lien is still valid. Still waiting to get paid. What I would do in your shoes is: Take the 4k job right off the books. Apply the materials to promotional expenses for the write off of the cost of those. Eat the labor. and be done with it. Do not apply the materials to another job since that is illegal (in MI.).
anonomoose
New member
The maximum rate of interest you can legally charge in Michigan, as an individual is 7% annually. 11% on land contract. Penalty for over charging on interest, if taken to court is NO interest at all.
Probably a mute point, since once the property is sold and the period of redemption runs, you will end up with nothing.
These are the hazzards of taking liens on property in this day and age. Move on, and learn from it.
Probably a mute point, since once the property is sold and the period of redemption runs, you will end up with nothing.
These are the hazzards of taking liens on property in this day and age. Move on, and learn from it.
polarisrider1
New member
Note: the lien is placed on the "work" such as the house or property not the builder himself. The bank cannot release the house to the owners until all lien waivers are filed. What will probable happen is whoever you did the work for if not the builders own home will have to pay you. In Michigan we pay into a fund $55 a year. to cover deadbeat, un insured or dead builders. The homeowners can draw from this to pay you also. This may just be a Michigan thing. In the past 5 yrs. I have had 3 builders kill themselves and 160 builders go into bankruptcy or "retire". Times are tough yet looking better!!
polarisrider1
New member
The maximum rate of interest you can legally charge in Michigan, as an individual is 7% annually. 11% on land contract. Penalty for over charging on interest, if taken to court is NO interest at all.
Probably a mute point, since once the property is sold and the period of redemption runs, you will end up with nothing.
These are the hazzards of taking liens on property in this day and age. Move on, and learn from it.
The lien is placed by my business and 18% is legal in Michigan. We have builders paying that all the time. 2/10 net30 with 1.5% compounded monthly. been doing that for 30 yrs. There is no period of redemption on the mechanics lien. As long as that invoice is not paid the title insurance will not accept the title as clear and the lein is inforced.
polarisrider1
New member
I agree - the lien should attach to the property not the person.
Correct.
the job was to a home owner I guess it is mortgaged out to 275k in the shape it is in bank could get poss 225k he owes the association 9k med bills close to 300k on and on lien getting filled this week but not holding my breath I don't mind eating my own work the worst part is paying the guy I had do allot of the work out of pocket so it will cost me 2k out of pocket because I wont stiff a guy like that .and why is it this **** always has to come out of the toy/ fun fund I need to find another fund to dip from
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polarisrider1
New member
the job was to a home owner I guess it is mortgaged out to 275k in the shape it is in bank could get poss 225k he owes the association 9k med bills close to 300k on and on lien getting filled this week but not holding my breath I don't mind eating my own work the worst part is paying the guy I had do allot of the work out of pocket so it will cost me 2k out of pocket because I wont stiff a guy like that .and why is it this **** always has to come out of the toy/ fun fund I need to find another fund to dip from
Ezra, the reason it comes out of our toy funds first is because we are married. (that's the wifes answer). Don't burn your guy that did a lot of the work, you will need him again someday. Tell him what is going on and see if he will take just half. Let him know that you get him the rest when you do, or you will make it up over the long haul on additional work to him.
Just remember liens are different from state to state. I spent 5 years practicing construction law primarily in Wisconsin but some in Illinois as well and the only thing for certain is rules are different everywhere.
In most states the interest rate is set by the state in a statute, you can't charge whatever you want. I'm surprised Michigan lets you assign your own rate to a legal document. Contractually you can usually charge whatever you want, but once it turns into a lien, you get the same rate as everyone else.
Second, Ezra, I wouldn't bother with a lien if you are sure that the mortgage is higher than the value of all of the assets and the estate. You can't squeeze money out of a turnip, and you will be the last in line. If you think there may be money AFTER everyone else is paid, then file a lien and become a creditor in probate. It should only cost a couple hundred bucks to file and then you should get all the paperwork and determine if you want to pay a little more later in the game to protect your investment.
Prider1-
I think you should check into your lien a little. A few big things don't add up. 1) A lien should have been converted to a court judgement long before 11 years (most liens "expire" if no further action is taken). 2) Like I said above the interest rate is goofy. 3) Even if you have converted it to a judgement, the statute of limitations has likely run on the judgement unless you have taken some further actions
As long as you aren't really counting on the money coming in some day, your fine. But if you need the money back, I'd do some checking asap to make sure your rights are still protected and haven't expired. A couple "highly reliable" (sorry I don't have access to my legal research tools any more) sources kind of verify what I am syaing: http://constructionliens.uslegal.com/state-laws/michigan-construction-lien-law/
Good luck everyone. Sometimes getting paid is a b*tch.
Blutooth
In most states the interest rate is set by the state in a statute, you can't charge whatever you want. I'm surprised Michigan lets you assign your own rate to a legal document. Contractually you can usually charge whatever you want, but once it turns into a lien, you get the same rate as everyone else.
Second, Ezra, I wouldn't bother with a lien if you are sure that the mortgage is higher than the value of all of the assets and the estate. You can't squeeze money out of a turnip, and you will be the last in line. If you think there may be money AFTER everyone else is paid, then file a lien and become a creditor in probate. It should only cost a couple hundred bucks to file and then you should get all the paperwork and determine if you want to pay a little more later in the game to protect your investment.
Prider1-
I think you should check into your lien a little. A few big things don't add up. 1) A lien should have been converted to a court judgement long before 11 years (most liens "expire" if no further action is taken). 2) Like I said above the interest rate is goofy. 3) Even if you have converted it to a judgement, the statute of limitations has likely run on the judgement unless you have taken some further actions
As long as you aren't really counting on the money coming in some day, your fine. But if you need the money back, I'd do some checking asap to make sure your rights are still protected and haven't expired. A couple "highly reliable" (sorry I don't have access to my legal research tools any more) sources kind of verify what I am syaing: http://constructionliens.uslegal.com/state-laws/michigan-construction-lien-law/
Good luck everyone. Sometimes getting paid is a b*tch.
Blutooth
anonomoose
New member
Bluey....you can charge any rate you want whenever you want as long as the party paying pays. If they take it to a smart lawyer, and the lawyer takes it to court and the court finds that you charged usery rates, you get the principle and the bill for going to court!
Some have to learn the hard way or they don't learn at all!
Some have to learn the hard way or they don't learn at all!
Bluey....you can charge any rate you want whenever you want as long as the party paying pays. If they take it to a smart lawyer, and the lawyer takes it to court and the court finds that you charged usery rates, you get the principle and the bill for going to court!
Some have to learn the hard way or they don't learn at all!
On a contract I agree, but once it becomes a lien the rate almost certainly goes out the window and converts to the rate set by the state for judgements...
Also generally urusry laws only applly to bank loans, contracts can almost have any legal rate (why can credit cards have 23% interest)
well I talked to my lawyer today she said in MN if you had a set interest rate in the original contract that is in forcible but if not you are stuck with I think she said 5.4% and yes in MN I have to file a lein and then go to a probate hearing and then it is valid until the place sells.but if the place is not worth what it will sell for and he has more debts it will prob just cost me more money in the end.lucky for me she has some family connections and will find out if there are any assets.but *** she is filling for me and checking and I will be installing a new vanity for her .I love barter .BTW all my new paper work will be being made up this week with late payment intrest in the contract. even my time and material sheets 10% compounded MO
polarisrider1
New member
I checked today on the lien that I placed back on 1/11/98 Checked with the county clerk in Kent County, MI. The lien is still good and valid. No change of owners registered on property taxes or on the deed as of yet. She reminded me that the property can not change ownership with a lien on it until the lien is fullfilled and I sign off on it. I was told It may be forever to collect and the property needs to attempt to change ownership for the title Insurance Co. to flag it with a lien. I also found out the drywall company has a lien too. To file a lien is a bit of work and I spent most of a day running from desk to desk at the county building dotting i's and crossing t's, to do it back in 98.