Metal roof?

[russholio]

My dad's summer place is a double-wide manufactured home and, I suspect, in need of a new roof. He just had it shingled 5 years ago and paid an exorbitant price, but there are several spots that feel pretty spongy. When it was done 5 years ago they just put on a second layer; no tear-off or board work. I told him the great news (he winters in West Virginia with his girlfriend but they didn't make it up this year because of health issues with her) and he said he might consider a metal roof. I know there are a lot of experts out here, so I'm wondering if anyone can give me a rough estimate on what the cost would be?

Dimensions: approximately 60' x 24' (including covered front deck)
I don't know what the slope is specifically, but it's typical of a a plain gable roof on a double-wide manufactured home. It's not so tall or steep that I was uncomfortable being up there!

Any info/advice would be appreciated. Also....if any of you do this type of work and are in the mid-Michigan area (Midland/Clare/Gladwin) and/or would be willing to travel there for a job (specifically, it's in Sanford), please PM me.

Thanks!

 

[ezra]

are u talking poll barn tin with exposed rubber washer fasteners or standing seam hidden fasteners>
poll bar style is the cheapest way out .
u can also ridged foam sheet over shingle and slap tin over the works.
a 16ftx3ft poll barn tin panel at menerds id around 30 bucks 1/2 4x8 ridged foam around 10 bucks
pluse cap and screws figure 60 bucks every 3 ft .
and say 250 for vents and 100 for calk.
U can order cut 2 size but will add a few bucks but hay it is just a summer home and only 5 in or so of overhang not a bad thing

 

[skid]

Had mine done last year 24x48 on the house and 24x30 on garage for just over $4400

 

[jr37]

If the roof is spongy now, you are looking at extra cost. A complete tear-off and replace the wood underneath. After that it will be cheaper to go with shingles, steel will run you a lot more. A good shingle will last as long as your dad wants the place.

 

[millertime]

jr37 is right, you need to tear off the asphalt regardless, if you go with asphalt you will need to do repairs to the wood sheathing. If you go with Steel you will not. If you choose to put down steel, there are many different options, I highly recommend adding the insulation as noted above. The exposed fastener steel will be the same cost or cheaper than asphalt. The Snap lock hidden fastener will be higher in product cost and labor than the exposed and asphalt. Either way the steel will last 50+ years.

You may not need to replace the roof at all, the spongy feeling may be due to the load of having 2 layers of shingles. Did you go in the attic and look at the underside? I would recommend having an expert (not a roofer) do an inspection and give you recommendations.

Personally if it was my place, did not intend on selling it soon, and if I had to replace the roof I would go with the hidden fastener steel.

Good luck!

 

[russholio]

I knew that there were two types of fastening systems to metal roofs, but that's all I knew about them before I posted. So, I'm not really sure which he would want to go with. I suppose like anything else it would depend on cost.

I guess I should clarify what I was describing as "spongy" -- there are actually visually noticeable depressions in the roof. I don't think it's from the extra layer of shingles, but I admit I'm no expert. Unfortunately, there is no attic (or at least, no access to that space) where we could inspect it from the underside. If there is an access point, I don't know about it. If Dad knows about it, he's never used it.

The company that did the job last time really raped him -- $7500 (including a $500 "discount"!) which included no tear-off and no board work -- just the installation of a ridge vent, which doesn't seem like it should drive up the cost that much. But maybe I'm wrong.

I think he was leaning toward metal because of its popularity where he stays in W. Virginia. He thought if he could get one for not too much more than asphalt, that it would be the way to go. If it's going to be significantly more, I'm pretty sure he'll stick with asphalt.

 

[lenny]

you mentioned ridge vent which is good, no cutting around all the vents. Here in the UP we see all kinds of stuff happen. I have had customers want metal right over shingles or add perlins and fasten the metal to that. I have also had people request felt paper over the shingles first so I determined I needed to get familiar with metal roofs and contact the metal manufacturer and have them tell me what they prefer or what/what not voids the warranty. I was told metal can be installed directly over a shingle roof and not void a warranty but felt paper can help keep the backside of the metal clean from abrasion and rusting due to movement in metal moving when heated by the sun but again, not required.

Depending on financial situation IMO would determine what I would do but it wouldn't vary much because I wouldn't add perlins (wood framing 2x4 over the shingles) unless there was a venting or ice damn problem.

So, a reasonable approach would be: install synthetic felt, install metal panels with 2.5" screws (washer), install ridge cap with uni-vent secured to underside of ridge.

I would guess the roof pitch is a 3/12

The roof is just under 16 sq so I'd get (2) 10 sq rolls of synthetic felt. roughly $100 per roll, so $200 in felt with $20 in staples and button cap nails, $220 total there.

You would need 40 metal panels roughly 13 ft long. I get metal for $2.62 a ft so each panel would be $34.06 x 40 = 1362.40

Screws, 28 screws pr panel =1120 screws,,add another 100 for the ridge for a total of 1220 pcs, so I'd get (2) 500 ct bags and (1) 250 ct. Probably .11 cent a screw for a total or $134.20

Ridge cap you need 6 pcs at roughly $18 pr pc comes to $108, ridge vent you need 12 pcs at $18 pr pc comes to $216.

Total of $2040.60, tax $122.43= grand total of $2163.03

forgot to add ice and water shield, $225 + 2163= $2388That gives you a good idea as to material cost and often the labor is about the same, so double that.

Depending on the "spongy" issue, it may need to be delt with but just go up there and check it out. In a perfect world a complete tear off would be ideal because of the 2 existing layers and some concern of sheeting condition but as I said earlier, sometimes money may not allow but if it did need a tear off I'd probably add another 2 g's to tear it, repair sheeting, and haul it away.

 

[russholio]

I guess I should alter my description of certain spots on the roof. Instead of saying "spongy", I should have said "saggy". The whole roof is not that way, but there are several spots that are. I'm not a roofer, nor have I ever done a roofing job (though I've watched it done). But in my firefighting career I've spent time on roofs, and these spots send up warning flags to me. Something just doesn't seem right.

If it were mine and I was spending the money, I'd opt for the complete tear-off and replacing of any bad boards. My preference would be to start with a clean slate for peace of mind. I'm pretty sure my dad would feel that way, too. Assuming that aesthetic differences aside, exposed fasteners are functionally just as good as hidden fasteners, he'd probably opt for the least expensive route.

Lenny, your numbers seem to be in line with what people in W. Virginia were telling him they paid. Even with complete tear-off, haul away, material, and labor fees it seems as though it would be the same or even less than the $7500 they charged him for the POS job he has now. They don't get nearly amount of snow as in the U.P. so in that regard a metal roof is not a necessity, but if one can be had reasonably I can't think of a reason NOT to get one. Lenny, if you're willing to bid on the job, I'll recommend you!

Thanks to all who have offered advice so far. If anyone else has anything to add, please keep it coming!

 

[anonomoose]

If the roof is spongy now, you are looking at extra cost. A complete tear-off and replace the wood underneath. After that it will be cheaper to go with shingles, steel will run you a lot more. A good shingle will last as long as your dad wants the place.

The roof pitch will play a roll in this decision too. A low pitch does not favor asphalt shingles. This might be what is ailing it right now. Depressions where water can stand is not a good thing.

The nice thing about metal is that even if you hit some dead wood to secure the screw the over all affect of screws will keep it on the roof. It also sheds water better and snow and ice even better still than asphalt. So a low pitch roof begs for a metal roof compared to asphalt.

Noise of rain and hail whenever that happens, will be heard with the metal unless he has lots of insulation to deaden the affects of a heavy rain or hail storm.

I have done both and actually prefer the metal for it's longevity and easy of installation over asphalt shingle.

 

[rv245]

How does metal roof go as far as being dented from things like acorns or tree branches. I've seen cars dented from acorns.

 

[lenny]

How does metal roof go as far as being dented from things like acorns or tree branches. I've seen cars dented from acorns.

I have not seen metal roofs damaged from acorns but branches, could happen. There are a few different gauge metals offered for roofing

 

[EXCESSIVE FORCE]

you mentioned ridge vent which is good, no cutting around all the vents. Here in the UP we see all kinds of stuff happen. I have had customers want metal right over shingles or add perlins and fasten the metal to that. I have also had people request felt paper over the shingles first so I determined I needed to get familiar with metal roofs and contact the metal manufacturer and have them tell me what they prefer or what/what not voids the warranty. I was told metal can be installed directly over a shingle roof and not void a warranty but felt paper can help keep the backside of the metal clean from abrasion and rusting due to movement in metal moving when heated by the sun but again, not required.

Depending on financial situation IMO would determine what I would do but it wouldn't vary much because I wouldn't add perlins (wood framing 2x4 over the shingles) unless there was a venting or ice damn problem.

So, a reasonable approach would be: install synthetic felt, install metal panels with 2.5" screws (washer), install ridge cap with uni-vent secured to underside of ridge.

I would guess the roof pitch is a 3/12

The roof is just under 16 sq so I'd get (2) 10 sq rolls of synthetic felt. roughly $100 per roll, so $200 in felt with $20 in staples and button cap nails, $220 total there.

You would need 40 metal panels roughly 13 ft long. I get metal for $2.62 a ft so each panel would be $34.06 x 40 = 1362.40

Screws, 28 screws pr panel =1120 screws,,add another 100 for the ridge for a total of 1220 pcs, so I'd get (2) 500 ct bags and (1) 250 ct. Probably .11 cent a screw for a total or $134.20

Ridge cap you need 6 pcs at roughly $18 pr pc comes to $108, ridge vent you need 12 pcs at $18 pr pc comes to $216.

Total of $2040.60, tax $122.43= grand total of $2163.03

That gives you a good idea as to material cost and often the labor is about the same, so double that.

Depending on the "spongy" issue, it may need to be delt with but just go up there and check it out. In a perfect world a complete tear off would be ideal because of the 2 existing layers and some concern of sheeting condition but as I said earlier, sometimes money may not allow but if it did need a tear off I'd probably add another 2 g's to tear it, repair sheeting, and haul it away.

Don't forget the uni-vent. That stuff isn't cheap.....

 

[millertime]

IMHO, I would always do a tear off. Besides the cost of a dumpster it is all labor and pretty much anyone can do it... I agree that the pitch would be anywhere from a 3-1/2 to a 5 12 pitch, I have never see a manufactured home have anything steeper.
A speed square or pitch gauge will tell you.
As for noise, there are some companies that spray a insulation on the steel that absorbs the sound. Again my opinion would be to nail down 1-1/2" of ridged insulation and install the steel over it.
Steel is cheap, you will pay the most for the trim pieces. As far as "dent resistant" stay away from the 28 gauge systems and go with something heavier.
Perlins are only needed if you have a bunch of "wave" in the roof and need to level it, or add a lot of insulation. Typically this is only needed in really old homes or barns that have settled quite a bit over the years, with a light pitch and a small amount of roof settlement you will not need them.

What are you going to do with the soffit and fascia? If it is all ready aluminum or steel you will not need to touch, if it is wood with vents cut in you may want to switch to metal.

As for snaplock "hidden fastener", it adds a lot of time and $$. If you are ok with seeing screw heads go with the exposed fastener system, with the light pitch you will never see them unless you are standing 50' from the house. Lenny's $$ are pretty spot on.

Metal is easy to install, most people can do it themselves, the only tricky part will be the valley's if you have any.

 

[lenny]

Don't forget the uni-vent. That stuff isn't cheap.....

It was in there I just forgot to call it by name. Thanks because sometimes a guy does forget that stuff and it is costly. It's 21 bucks a pc at menards and 17.88 here in Greenland,,,weird, hey

ridge vent you need 12 pcs at $18 pr pc comes to $216.

 

[doomsman]

I would address the low spots first, what is the cause?
If vaulted ceiling/roof you may have worse problems.

 

[russholio]

What are you going to do with the soffit and fascia? If it is all ready aluminum or steel you will not need to touch, if it is wood with vents cut in you may want to switch to metal.

Hmmm, I'm not sure. I didn't pay that much attention to it when I was last up there a couple weeks ago. I'll be going up again in a couple weeks so I'll get a better look.

I would address the low spots first, what is the cause?
If vaulted ceiling/roof you may have worse problems.

Pretty sure it isn't vaulted, but would the worse problems be?

Lenny, did you get my PM?

 

[lenny]

yes, just sent you a PM, thanks.

If it is a vaulted ceiling your interior ceiling is on the underside and could show inside with water stains. I just repaired a roof on a trailer that had a double roof put on 10 years ago and there is no ventilation and the sheeting starts to curl and lift up and came right through the shingles. Cold weather on the outside, warm interior heat escapes into the second roof air space and condensation form. Plywood responds by curling or delaminating. I repaired it but walking around up there you can feel the butt joints of the sheeting squeaking where the entire sheeting is compromised to some degree. There is a soffit vent but probably plugged from last guy blowing blown in insulation in there. Next spring I'll try an unplug and cut in a ridge vent.

For your roof, like you said, someone will need to inspect the roof and see if there is a serious issue. Serious doesn't always mean big money. Could have been a slow leak over many years and softened a local area and for that if it's small you can just leave it and I the metal will lay over and hold just fine.

 

[favoritos]

Find out why that roof is sagging before making any decisions on roofing material. We have looked at a lot of fixer uppers. Sagging roofs that are visible usually meant a fair amount of water damage. Some had it from the inside and they usually had a number of reasons. Venting of bath and kitchen fans into the attic is a super bad culprit along with poorly sealed light fixtures and plumbing/electrical cutouts.
There were a few that had plain old bad roofing especially around anything going through the roof membrane.

Find out what is causing the potential moisture before doing any type of roof.

Good Luck. I like steel if it is done correctly. Poorly done steel is a magnate for bats and other critters that love the little crevices at the soffit and trim seams.

BTW, I have seen a lot of different roofing that works in various climates.(Spend a lot of time in Europe with the inlaws and their roofing is only warrantied for a 75 year limit because they went with the "cheap" roof) I can't even imagine how we keep putting up homes with roofs that last 5-10 years.

 

[RAC]

!

 

[RAC]

low slope heavy snow load roof joist 24in on center with half inch particle board might sag a roof 3 roofs on in my area is against code check before going over