I have property in Keweenaw County and I allow the snowmobile trail to cross my land, the trail is a snowmobile trail and NOT an ATV trail. The last few years I have had more and more ATV’s and trucks driving through the land in summer. Last year I put up some private property/ no tresspassing signs on the side of the trail, guess what still had people driving through and even waving as they drive past me, very friendly people! This year I had to put up gates at both ends of the land, trust me I don’t have the money or didn’t have the time to do this but what else could I do?? Now I am up trying to enjoy my land and allow my children to play on MY land that I own and pay taxes on and guess what???? Sure as st here come a couple of ATV’s flying down MY road, I jumped out and of course I get the “where lost and just trying to get back to our trailer” Now I am pissed and really pissed this is my land not a public ATV highway, I go down to the south end of my property and guess what?? The brush is smashed down where people have been riding right around the gate and through my land. This is the last straw if I have one more and I mean one more ATV going around the gate and I see them come through the land the snowmobile trial is history and I mean history I will close off the land with one small gate entry way for my truck that will always be closed and they will have to find a new way around this winter. I don’t get the fact that someone opened an RV campground on gay/lac la belle rd that welcomes ATV’ers when there is no legal place to ride? Up and down the shoulder of the road?? The only thing is trail 133 across the road and there are a number of gates up because this is all private property? Now to top it all off the jack as that went through my ditch to get onto my land had to rub his handle bars agents’ my no trespassing sign as it was within an inch of his tire tracks, and then he has the brass ones to ask me if I am going to go up the road and let him out? <font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font>
My last straw
- Thread starter radsrh
- Start date
stormbringr1
New member
Yup...makes sense to me. Penalize snowmobilers for what a few disrespectful yahoo's on ATV's do...
You can't blame the property owner, you would do the same thing. I know of another snowmobile trail that is not open to ATV's, its posted with all kinds of signs yet I have seen ATV riders go right pass them and continue on like they don't exist. The trail is completely rutted by ATV's. I know of snowmobilers who are riding their ATV's on that trial. Maybe some of these landowners are going to have to set up a sting and have these people arrested.
stormbringr1
New member
Wrong. I'd get their names/tag numbers and turn them into the Sheriff for trespassing...but then...I don't kick my dog for something the neighbor's cat does, either...
Strombringer1,
The landowner can do whatever he feels is right because IT IS HIS LAND! As snowmobilers we do not have the right to ride on his land, it is a priveleage. Taking a defensive stance here will not help him solve his problem, it may even upset him and alientate him even more.
radsrh,
I would try and enlist the help of the local snowmobile club to see if they have any resources to help you resolve this. Maybe them contacting the local law would result in a better, coordinated effort.
I too have a cabin and the road dead ends at my driveway which is a couple hundred yards long and I cannot believe how many people drive past the signs and then go up and turn around at my garage. It is especially unsettling when they do it at midnight when you are trying to sleep.
Since you are a member on this site I am assuming you are a sledder and possibly a ATV rider I would ask you to look at other options before closing down the section of trail across your property. It is very easy to lose a section of trail but very hard to open another.
With that said, thank you for allowing the trail in the first place. 1 or 2 jerks can ruin it for everyone else no matter what topic or sport we discuss.
I do not ride that area, but do hate the idea of having the "PRIVILAGE" to ride my sled limited.
I also am a ATV rider as well as my boys and the rest of our extended family. It is very easy when riding to get turned around a ride somewhere where we are not supposed to be. But, if there is a sign or a barrier we will not cross it.
I wish you the best in getting this resolved.
Thanks again for the generousity of opening your land as access in the first place, I am sorry you must now deal with this burden.
The landowner can do whatever he feels is right because IT IS HIS LAND! As snowmobilers we do not have the right to ride on his land, it is a priveleage. Taking a defensive stance here will not help him solve his problem, it may even upset him and alientate him even more.
radsrh,
I would try and enlist the help of the local snowmobile club to see if they have any resources to help you resolve this. Maybe them contacting the local law would result in a better, coordinated effort.
I too have a cabin and the road dead ends at my driveway which is a couple hundred yards long and I cannot believe how many people drive past the signs and then go up and turn around at my garage. It is especially unsettling when they do it at midnight when you are trying to sleep.
Since you are a member on this site I am assuming you are a sledder and possibly a ATV rider I would ask you to look at other options before closing down the section of trail across your property. It is very easy to lose a section of trail but very hard to open another.
With that said, thank you for allowing the trail in the first place. 1 or 2 jerks can ruin it for everyone else no matter what topic or sport we discuss.
I do not ride that area, but do hate the idea of having the "PRIVILAGE" to ride my sled limited.
I also am a ATV rider as well as my boys and the rest of our extended family. It is very easy when riding to get turned around a ride somewhere where we are not supposed to be. But, if there is a sign or a barrier we will not cross it.
I wish you the best in getting this resolved.
Thanks again for the generousity of opening your land as access in the first place, I am sorry you must now deal with this burden.
stormbringr1
New member
I don't disagree with anything you've stated, saber... Do you really think it is lost upon me that it is the landowner's right to open/close the trail through his/her own land? What is clear is that you've completely missed the point of my message--and, once again, that message is--closing his land to lawful winter snowmobiling is not a rational reaction to the summer trespassing of a handful of losers on ATV's. His frustration is understandable but the reaction misplaced. Can he do it? Of course. There's no law against adding 1 + 1 and having it equal 3 now is there?
You know it might just be more than a handful of abusers, its probably goes on all summer. I have a inkling of where this is (generally speaking) and if I am right there is a bar not far away. If you go there (Bar) on a weekend you are likely to see ATV's at the bar, I have seen large groups at the bar and camping nearby. In order to get there they either have to cross private lands or drive on paved roads which judging from ATV's covered in mud, its not the road.
I am sure the owner feels that if the trail is closed and rerouted his troubles will eventually end because they will tend to follow the snowmobile trail. That's the attraction that brings the ATV's.
I am sure the owner feels that if the trail is closed and rerouted his troubles will eventually end because they will tend to follow the snowmobile trail. That's the attraction that brings the ATV's.
stormbringr1
New member
4 out of every 5 ATVers are going to see his signs, do the right thing and turn around... 1 out of 5 are going to drive around his gate and ignore his signs--if possible to do so... Shutting down the snowmobile trail in winter is going to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to adjust these ratios or prevent this from happening...
I just found out that someone has dumped two truckloads of shingle tear off on the driveway heading into my pristine lake property in northern WI. I think the next time I go out there I'll wave the nearest fisherman over in his boat and deliver a nice pimp slap across the forehead for it. That'll solve the problem, eh!
I just found out that someone has dumped two truckloads of shingle tear off on the driveway heading into my pristine lake property in northern WI. I think the next time I go out there I'll wave the nearest fisherman over in his boat and deliver a nice pimp slap across the forehead for it. That'll solve the problem, eh!
skip_schulz
New member
radsrh, what you are going through is EXACTLY why Mi-TRALE implemented an ATV Trail Signing program. We did this with our own money, not a penny from the ORV Trail Sticker fund. Volunteers invested hundreds of hours in putting an ATV Trail Signing program so that we could put out a map showing ATV Riders where they can legally ride.
We did the Mi-TRALE ATV Trail Signing program so that ATV Riders would know where they can legally ride.
We did this at the REQUEST of Private Landowners that gave us a Trail Agreement for an ATV Trail so tha ATV Riders would STAY ON THE TRAIL
We did this with the support of Local and County Law Enforcement to minimize ILLEGAL ATV Riding on Private Land, and to help Emergency personaly find someone in case of an accident.
After doing all this, we got our hands slapped by the DNR. Fortunately the DNR gave Mi-TRALE special permission to keep our Mi-TRALE ATV Trail Signs up, UNTIL THEY COME UP WITH A BETTER SYSTEM.
The current system is simply small 3 inch confidence markers. Problem is those confidence markers can only be posted on MiDNR Designated ORV Trails.
So what are we supposed to do on the hundreds of miles of NON-DESIGNATED, yet LEGAL ATV Trails?
What are we to do to help educate and inform ATV Riders that many snowmobile trails ARE NOT OPEN TO ATV's?
radsrh, I sympathize with you, and TOTALLY understand what you are going through. While Mi-TRALE does not have any trails in your area, we hope that the ATV club in your area joins WITH Mi-TRALE in coming up with an ATV Trail Signing system that helps minimize the problems you are going through.
Would it not make sense to have an ATV Trail Signing program, like the one Snowmobilers have been using for 30+ years? One where trails are specifically designated.
Since Snowmobile Trails use a Numeric system, Mi-TRALE came up with an Alphabetical trail identification and signing system. Snowmobile Trails are Black numbers on Orange. Mi-TRALE are Black Alphabetical Letters on a White Background. Simple, and easy to understand.
If you don't see a Black Alphabetical Letter on a White Sign, then that trail is NOT OPEN TO ATV's.
So simple, yet those in Govt and in our sport is unwilling to accept this system.
Let's wait and see what ATV Trail Signing program the DNR will come up with.
In the meantime, radsrh, I am so sorry for what a few 'bad apples' in our sport are doing to our friends in the snowmobile community.
BTW, I am BOTH an ATV Rider and Snowmobiler, and simply want the two user groups to WORK TOGETHER.
Skip Schulz
Mi-TRALE
We did the Mi-TRALE ATV Trail Signing program so that ATV Riders would know where they can legally ride.
We did this at the REQUEST of Private Landowners that gave us a Trail Agreement for an ATV Trail so tha ATV Riders would STAY ON THE TRAIL
We did this with the support of Local and County Law Enforcement to minimize ILLEGAL ATV Riding on Private Land, and to help Emergency personaly find someone in case of an accident.
After doing all this, we got our hands slapped by the DNR. Fortunately the DNR gave Mi-TRALE special permission to keep our Mi-TRALE ATV Trail Signs up, UNTIL THEY COME UP WITH A BETTER SYSTEM.
The current system is simply small 3 inch confidence markers. Problem is those confidence markers can only be posted on MiDNR Designated ORV Trails.
So what are we supposed to do on the hundreds of miles of NON-DESIGNATED, yet LEGAL ATV Trails?
What are we to do to help educate and inform ATV Riders that many snowmobile trails ARE NOT OPEN TO ATV's?
radsrh, I sympathize with you, and TOTALLY understand what you are going through. While Mi-TRALE does not have any trails in your area, we hope that the ATV club in your area joins WITH Mi-TRALE in coming up with an ATV Trail Signing system that helps minimize the problems you are going through.
Would it not make sense to have an ATV Trail Signing program, like the one Snowmobilers have been using for 30+ years? One where trails are specifically designated.
Since Snowmobile Trails use a Numeric system, Mi-TRALE came up with an Alphabetical trail identification and signing system. Snowmobile Trails are Black numbers on Orange. Mi-TRALE are Black Alphabetical Letters on a White Background. Simple, and easy to understand.
If you don't see a Black Alphabetical Letter on a White Sign, then that trail is NOT OPEN TO ATV's.
So simple, yet those in Govt and in our sport is unwilling to accept this system.
Let's wait and see what ATV Trail Signing program the DNR will come up with.
In the meantime, radsrh, I am so sorry for what a few 'bad apples' in our sport are doing to our friends in the snowmobile community.
BTW, I am BOTH an ATV Rider and Snowmobiler, and simply want the two user groups to WORK TOGETHER.
Skip Schulz
Mi-TRALE
After running into some ATV's (from out the area yesterday) on the trail between Hancock and Calumet, I understand what he meant about business's using the snowmobile trails to attract ATV's. These people on the trail were from out of the area and were planning on going to to Copper Harbor today. Everyone they talked to, friends who been up here riding atv's, gas station, motel, local bar/rest. etc since they been here told them the could ride all the snowmobile trails. I told them it was not 100% correct, if they run into any signs saying to stay out they had better heed those signs. I offered to give them a Mi-TRALE map but someone had one already. One of the riders was pretty confident though on where they were going, he rode snowmobiles and atv's up there before and he knows what he knows and they left.
skip_schulz
New member
Thanks Mike, that's the best we can do. As you know, better then most, Mi-TRALE has been working hard for a long time to educate ATV Riders that many of the Snowmobile Trails are NOT open to ATV's. That's why the club spent so much time and money putting up signs and putting out a map.
Yet, we have many that still ride the ATV's on NON-ATV Snowmobile Trails and our club and the many good ATV riders pay the price.
Skip
Yet, we have many that still ride the ATV's on NON-ATV Snowmobile Trails and our club and the many good ATV riders pay the price.
Skip
Well here is an update, after seeing the grass smashed down going around the gates and passing within a ¼ inch of the no trespassing sign I did put out boards with nails in them. The board was hit at least once as seen by the nails bent down and the black rubber marks across the board. Well they where so nice as to move the board so they could go through easer. Along with the boards I put up some more signs I purchased this past winter informing people that Michigan is one of 13 states that has the Castle Law. The sign reads protected by the Castle Law violators will be shot, did not really want to have to use the signs when I bought them and my better half was offended when she saw the last line that said violators will be shot. After seeing the damage done by the continued trespassing she is the one that said let’s put them up. I think the biggest problem with this is the RV camp sites located on Gay/ Lac la Belle Rd with the big sign that says ATV’s welcome. Now trail 133 is right across the street and is all private property and I have seen this last weekend and before as people ride out of there driveway right across to the trail and head off on there marry way. I am more then sure that the owner is telling people to hop on the trail and ride where ever they want to, as to the best of my knowledge there is NO legal place to ride. I know a lot of people ride the stamp sands down from gay but gay did gate this off and I don’t think you should be on them? I know that 133 in that area is all private and the land owner south of me had gated his land off before and now has taken the time and trouble to stack 6 feet of logs on either side of his gate to TRY and keep people out. Last year he held out and kept his gates closed until after the start of the snowmobile season, I don’t know about this year but I will be in contact with the club and if they are not willing to take the time and expense to fence off the areas on either side of my gates I will and the trail will be history. My son loves to pick berries and run with the dogs on MY land on MY road and I can not risk a 9 yr old down on his knees enjoying our land and the beautiful Keweenaw being hit by an ATV running down the road, I have seen them in the past and as soon as they know someone is actually there they speed up and fly by past so you can’t stop them and I WILL not have him injured by someone trying to out run me.
A
admin
Guest
Steve,
Have you been to the RV camp site? If that is where you think the trouble is starting from (probably right on that thought), then it would be a good place to go to try and stop them from going in the first place. I would also be on the horn to Keweenaw County Sheriff and DNR every day complaining about it, tell the sheriff to stop by the campground and warn those to stay off private land and to make their presence known out that way on the weekends or when most of the problems happen.
I am on the board of directors for Keweenaw Trail Services (ones who oversee the grooming and maintainience of the trails) and I am sure we would be happy to help you out with some fencing, but just a heads up. All that will do is cause them to go around the fences and bring about more damage to your land. I have seen ATV's travel a 100 yards or more through the bush to get around gates and fences. It's just a few that do it, but before long you have a path that others think is the proper way to go.
Just my opinion, but closing down the snowmobile trail is a misdirected act. You will just be punishing law abiding snowmobilers and the ATV'ers that are breaking the law will continue to do so for years and years, whether there is a snowmobile trail that goes through there in the winter or not.
Send me an e mail and I would be more than happy to take the lead in getting KTS to work with you.
-John
Have you been to the RV camp site? If that is where you think the trouble is starting from (probably right on that thought), then it would be a good place to go to try and stop them from going in the first place. I would also be on the horn to Keweenaw County Sheriff and DNR every day complaining about it, tell the sheriff to stop by the campground and warn those to stay off private land and to make their presence known out that way on the weekends or when most of the problems happen.
I am on the board of directors for Keweenaw Trail Services (ones who oversee the grooming and maintainience of the trails) and I am sure we would be happy to help you out with some fencing, but just a heads up. All that will do is cause them to go around the fences and bring about more damage to your land. I have seen ATV's travel a 100 yards or more through the bush to get around gates and fences. It's just a few that do it, but before long you have a path that others think is the proper way to go.
Just my opinion, but closing down the snowmobile trail is a misdirected act. You will just be punishing law abiding snowmobilers and the ATV'ers that are breaking the law will continue to do so for years and years, whether there is a snowmobile trail that goes through there in the winter or not.
Send me an e mail and I would be more than happy to take the lead in getting KTS to work with you.
-John
I totally agree with Steve (radsrh). I would be quite upset as well not to mention the legitimate concern for his children's safety. It only takes one rider to come by and cause a life changing accident. He's done his due dillegence and tried to change the behavior. Maybe we as a snowmobiling society need to get involved so we don't lose our priveledge to use his property during the winter months. We all need to keep an eye out and stop these guys that are breaking the law and making us look bad.
skip_schulz
New member
While I understand Steve's frustration and agree that the 'bad apples' we have in our sport of riding an ORV (Off Road Vehicle), it is also important that we don't get in to a 'tit for tat' battle between FELLOW ORV enthusiasts.
I could give you many stories of private landowners shutting down ALL ORV trails, both snowmobile and ATV, due to snowmobilers riding off the marked trail. I could even give you examples of Private landowners that allow for an ATV trail but NOT a snowmobile trail.
However, what would this accomplish? Other then getting those that DON'T WANT ANY ORV access and/or trail on both Private and Public land.
I really hope that someday we can get more ATV and Snowmobile Clubs working TOGETHER.
Fortunately Mi-TRALE works closely with the Superior Snowmobile Club, Snow Valley Riders Snowmobile Club, White Thunder Riders Snowmobile Club, Chippewa Sno-Kats.
Working together is a lot better then trying to find ways to bring to EVERYONE's attention the problem we have with a 'few bad apples.'
Sorry for the long post.
I could give you many stories of private landowners shutting down ALL ORV trails, both snowmobile and ATV, due to snowmobilers riding off the marked trail. I could even give you examples of Private landowners that allow for an ATV trail but NOT a snowmobile trail.
However, what would this accomplish? Other then getting those that DON'T WANT ANY ORV access and/or trail on both Private and Public land.
I really hope that someday we can get more ATV and Snowmobile Clubs working TOGETHER.
Fortunately Mi-TRALE works closely with the Superior Snowmobile Club, Snow Valley Riders Snowmobile Club, White Thunder Riders Snowmobile Club, Chippewa Sno-Kats.
Working together is a lot better then trying to find ways to bring to EVERYONE's attention the problem we have with a 'few bad apples.'
Sorry for the long post.