Need Help! Framers/Builders, please help!

[anonomoose]

The tails are wall support bridging. As long as you don't find anything beyond an inch or so, I don't think there is anything structurally wrong other than a bit sloppy workmanship.

I think you will find that the solid pieces cut to fit the span between the floor joists, and extending out to the outer wall sheathing will be adequate to stop mice from getting in. The styrofoam won't stop mice, as they can easily eat right thru it. If you can find a bit of j channel material to cover that gap on the outside, I would do that too.

This isn't really a big deal, as others have witnessed, it does happen out in the stick build building business. It should have been addressed when it was built, but it certainly isn't unusual that it wasn't caught.

You just want to stop wind from entering and mice and crickets. Bit time consuming to put those pieces in, but even osb cut in strips will do the job...just make it tight as you can and fill any tiny gaps with some good spray foam. Use boarding first then fill the smallest cracks with foam. You should be fine.

 

[propjockey]

If the rim joist is hanging completely outside of the sill, you need to install squash blocks. In fact, if the roof is framed conventionally and you have a bearing wall directly above the steel beam in your basement, you should have squash blocks there as well.

Good to see your running a pair of 90+ furnaces!


-J-

 

[jpsted]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I'm beginning to feel a bit better about this, but do have a couple questions based on your comments.

Lenny, you are correct, this is a two story over the area in question, but the roof rafters do run the same direction. You say that this was probably not by design...is this particular application(using the tails) not one you would normally use unless doing a full cantilever? Also, today i found the same issue (gap to exterior and elements) on the wall on the opposite side of the house, but parallel to this wall...and the same "tail" application is used. But in this area, the tails are not spaced as closely together, perhaps because above this area is only a single story???

anonomoose, you said the tails are "wall support bridging", can you elaborate a bit more as to what that means? And same question for you as lenny, is this a normal application in your opinion?

prop, it does not appear to me that there is a rim joist on this wall. It looks only like the tails are covered by the OSB sheathing as you can see in the pic above. I guess I wasn't concerned about that until you mentioned it. The link you provide for the squash block also shows the joists meeting sheathing in the first diagram...should rim joist have been used. I will definitely bring up the squash blocks to the builder when we discuss.

Thanks again guys for all your help!

 

[jpsted]

Wow, just talked to the building inspector who was responsible for the home during construction...was he hesitant and uneasy discussing!

Of course he said my first recourse is to contact the builder as well. We'll see how this goes.

 

[lenny]

jp, I think I would first contact a rep from a I-joist manufacturer and get a non biased opinion. if the builder was okay with the fix that you have now than I would be hesitant to get him involved again till you can say for sure with 100% certainty what is the correct fix. maybe it is right now, it is possible but you can get a rep to give you the correct advise. Were all a bunch of framers not engineers so hold off on the builder or he will most likely send a lackey over there and squirt some caulk in there and call it good. Seriously, consider non-biased professional advise from the manufacturer. Just my .02 cents, well, maybe a few bucks by now

 

[anonomoose]

Wall support bridging is extra support for anywhere a framing wall of any type is placed over something other than the joist. Since the flooring is not designed to hold wall weight, and should be placed where possible over a joist, the open span between the joists is beefed up. This is most often done on interior walls of most stick built homes because sometimes walls just don't land on a joist, and a wall above runs the same way as the unlying joist but does NOT lay over it. 90 degree walls don't have this problem, because they will get support every 18 inches or so.

If this bridging is done correctly, it strengthens the floor enough to take the additional wall weight.

Since you have trusses in the flooring running 90 degrees to your "area" in question, there is likely to be very little support required on this wall other than basic enclosure type framing. Never-the-less, the amount of support provided needs to have at least 50% of the wall support under it to handle the load. You have indicated that there is 1/2 to 3/4 inch open space which can mean either there IS most of the plate covered, or there is NO coverage at all.

If MOST of the plate is covered it will still handle the load. If NO coverage on the supporting wall is over the sill, then IF the above is not a main weight baring wall, and IF the wall was beefed up with bridging, it could still handle the light duty load.

Since you find that there is half as many bridges on the single story side as on the two story side, I am guessing you have found out that the wall does not carry the main load on either end, and was bridged correctly to satisfy the weight loads.

Only an engineer could give total satisfaction to you about the long term support prospects of this wall, but I am betting that though this is a bit sloppy work, you won't need additional blocking or other support, even If the rim joist is hanging completely outside of the sill.

Modular homes are built this way all the time, to haul down the road and slap the two pieces together when they get to where they are going.

This is NOT the typical stick built process..as evidenced by the trussing in the basement. These outside walls carry minimal weight loads, and the two opposite walls carry all necessary loads for the roof and the upper story of the home. These walls are merely enclosed. Think of this as a giant tent. Center support is by means of the two sides of the tent (walls) and this carries the load. The front and back of the tent are simply enclosed, and more or less hang from those points that carry the main load.

 

[schrade]

I had similar issues with a house in Manitowoc county. I used a structural engineer to come and give my a report when I was selling the house. He was out of Mequon, I will see if I can find his name if you want.

 

[lenny]

schrade, simple and honest reply, where were you earlier when he first posted the thread, lol.

I kinda regret all the info I threw out there because without knowing the In's and outs of I-joist floor systems, were just speculating. Sure there are common similarities compared to conventional framing but the I-joist dudes will know for sure.

I'm kinda thinking that this type of I-joist doesn't use a rim joist per say because of the irregular shape creating a fastening problem in this particular location. be interesting to see what is proper.

 

[yamahauler]

Just curious, why the tin on the bottom of the floor over the two pvc pipes? I assume those are for the furnance or hot water heater but they don't get that hot do they?

 

[anonomoose]

Yama...metal is precaution for a furnace gone amuck. The idea is to create a minimum heat barrier from the combustible flooring. Close tolerance runs require this in many states now. I believe (but not sure) that runs that aren't running down between joists, still don't require it. Just another sort of nonsensical requirement that really doesn't accomplish much but doesn't cost that much to do, so builders do it and grumble little about the added cost. Sort of like double drywalling the living area exposure in the garage which is attached. It "might" prevent fire from getting into the rest of the house from the garage, if you had a car fire...course, if the gasoline in the car ignites, and explodes, what's the point??

 

[intowishin]

Getting in here a little late, but my house was custom built as well (approx. 6 yrs ago). I have the insulated concrete form poured walls (ICF for short). They have 2" rigid insulation with plastic ties to form the walls then they just pour the concrete and walla - instant foundation. However, I found the same problem. They over hung the I-joists to the outside of the insulation, but did not properly cap the rim. Perfect mouse house. I too called the inspector to see why "HE" didn't catch this upon inspection. He claims they can't catch every little thing. I asked what he could do, and he just basically told me he issued the occupancy permit and that is as far as he will go. Because your wall runs perpendicular to the I-joists, the load is spread out. I just filled the void with Great Stuff, and the mice have not been back. It also stopped the draft in the basement. It looks like you shouldn't have to worry about structural issues, but then again I am no engineer. Paying that much money for a home, little things like that can get you worked up a lot. I could go into a whole list of "other" things that were wrong with my house - THAT THE VILLAGE INSPECTOR SHOULD HAVE SEEN - but then I'd end up with writers cramp.

Best advice, have an outside engineer look at it, then get all your ducks in a row before you contact the builder. With the warranty out, he might just tell you you're out of luck and for a fee I could take care of that. Then you'll know whether to tell him your lawyer will be contacting him. Just my 2 cents.

 

[toad220]

Alot 2 doo about nothing yaa can doo .Yaa must have noo other real issues or doo yaa .It comes down to a lazy or got 2 go deer hunting got no time contractor.I have seen alot of that bs contractor on 3rd wife got 2 have a beer and go hunting contractor so deal with it when yaa live in cheeseland.

 

[jpsted]

I did hire a structural engineer today. We discussed briefly over the phone and for the fee being charged, it is worth my piece of mind for him to come out and charge me to determine I have no structural issues. At a minimum he will make a recommendation as how to best seal the areas.

From our discussion, I think the engineer was thinking along the lines of what anonomoose has been discussing...perhaps sloppy but likely no structural issues.

Will let you know what I find out. Appreciate all the comments and advice thus far.

 

[schrade]

Lenny,
Sorry for coming in late. I truly apologize. I was actually deer hunting when this post first started. I will refrain from any more input. Once again I apologize.

 

[datdude]

was the house built by Bielinski?

 

[lenny]

schrade, I was just being sarcastic in a good way. I am glad you posted because it was wise. You know what I mean, sorry if I came across as literal. I would never be rude to someone posting. Sorry for coming across wrong.


you da man!

 

[jpsted]

no, not a Bielinski...but that is definitely the type of B.S. they would do as well!

 

[snobuilder]

This whole post reads like a 500 page novel describing how to replace a burned out light bulb. So I guess i'll add my page. LOL
As the tradesmen on here have stated, this type of thing happens all the time. A foundation gets built out of square and is then discovered by the carpenter. Very seldom will you see the foundation torn out due to tremendous cost involved.
So in comes the carpenter. The carpenter is trained to remedy these problems in the framing process. He also is bound by a competitive bid to get the house built on time and under budget.
Short of stopping the building process and getting the block wall replaced,(NOT LIKELY)
the carpenter will go ahead and build you a square house on a crooked foundation.
BUT, in this case the carpenter did not follow through with the cure, by making sure the part of the structure that extended over the foundation was properly sealed.
I think that this "offset" to the foundation was so negligable that it went undiscovered until the mice made a closer investigation necessary.
IMHO, getting overly upset with this condition is not needed, as neither is getting a structural engineer involved.
As others have stated, this is not a structural problem but is instead a weather seal problem.
Contact me if you want to, I am in your area, and would be happy to help out a fellow JD sledhead,
Gary