Need some input

[arctiva]

People go the U.P in winter to snowmobile. Mostlly because the snow is deep and there is "off trail" sledding. You really want people to come and stay in your area? Does this area have much off trail? You wanna drum up bussiness? Make maps of legal off trail areas and they will come by the hundreds. No one wants to let the secret out where they ride through the woods or fire roads and they say do your own homework. Well there is more people that just dont have that kind of time versus people that do. And liveing 3 hours away or more and not being in with a local to show a person well you all get the idea..

I bet you couldnt keep a map like that in stock at 100$ a map

 

[thebluff]

People go the U.P in winter to snowmobile. Mostlly because the snow is deep and there is "off trail" sledding. You really want people to come and stay in your area? Does this area have much off trail? You wanna drum up bussiness? Make maps of legal off trail areas and they will come by the hundreds. No one wants to let the secret out where they ride through the woods or fire roads and they say do your own homework. Well there is more people that just dont have that kind of time versus people that do. And liveing 3 hours away or more and not being in with a local to show a person well you all get the idea..

I bet you couldnt keep a map like that in stock at 100$ a map

not possible to make a map of off trail as it must be private property. i do not know a single person-corporation that would offer a blanket "go ahead and let the world do as they wish" statement. that said, i would say a large portion of the riders here do off trail...but they have to make their own contacts.

 

[dcsnomo]

OK, some questions. BTW, I tend to be very direct, please do not be offended.

your points (not mine)
1) Tourism will play a big part in this recovery
2) Not a lot of lodging to drive tourism or benefit from it
3) Not many retail businesses that will benefit from tourism

Here's my issue. If point 1 above is correct then either 2 and/or 3 is incorrect. Inversely, if 2 and 3 are correct then 1 is incorrect.
If points 2 and 3 are correct then you do not have a tourism infrastructure and tourism will not play a major part in your recovery until somebody builds it. As a group you will need to decide if you have a tourism infrastructure that has room to grow (occupancy rate trends and room count are a good starting place).

There are two types of tourism businesses, lodging and retail (everything else). Lodging drives retail. Retail is a poor way to drive lodging. "I am staying in Ontonagon, therefore I am eating there" is true, the inverse is not. So, if you believe point 1 of yours is correct, then for tourism to play a big part in the recovery you must, have to, get people to stay there.

The festival will be fun. It will give your group something to work on, you will have a sense of accomplishment, and the town will enjoy it because all the locals will go to it. But the objective of tourism marketing is to bring out of market money into the community and then TAKE IT!

I do not mean to discourage you from the festival, although I probably have. Ontonagon could probably use a community event like this as I know the plant closing has been tough. While the festival will do many positive things for the community, growing tourism will not be one of them. Remember, if the bars downtown are busy with locals that day it is just moving existing money from one side of the community to the other. Tourism is new money.

Any marketing you do of the festival MUST be tied DIRECTLY to lodging. "This is our festival website CLICK HERE for lodging specials." The lodging community must support the festival directly, with specials and packages to drive overnight stays.

Like this...I am going to the UP sledding. Where should I stay? Here is the Ontonagon web site...oh look they are having specials that weekend BECAUSE of some festival..let's see, oh, a discount on my room and breakfast downtown, free admission to the festival, and there is a band at 6:00 after sledding. Let's stay there and check out the festival after sledding.

The nature of the festival is relatively unimportant. The nature of the lodging packages is of utmost importance. But, if you do not have a lodging infrastructure then you can't do it.

Sorry if I ramble, but I spend $250,000 per year on this stuff with 10 local communities and I always ask the same question...did your festival drive overnight stays? Usually no, overnight stays drive the festival.

Good luck!

 

[special_k]

I'd suggest a one day event that might draw both area residents and the transient snowmobile crowd. Example, google the bar stool races in Drummond Wisconsin. It's kind of a goofy local event, but a ton of locals participate and show up to watch. Also if you are sledding in the area, and you know about it, chances are you might stop by to at least check it out for an hour or two. I know I do, and it doesn't keep me from putting miles on that day. Generates money from food, drink, entry fees, raffles, etc...it's a quick shot in the arm. Maybe try something like that?

 

[thebluff]

I appreciate the input. No offense taken from any of the comments. Ideas like malls and such simply are not practical at this point but maybe one day.

dcsnowmo- actually all three are accurate. possbily i have not done such a good job describing our area. we have POTENTIAL as a tourist destination. That is where our biggest hope lies, imo. Manufacturing for all practical purposes left the USA close to a decade ago and likely wont return (this i know from experience). We do not have neighboring towns or resources that could be capitalized on. There are many things that could go along with tourism, but I think we have all the raw materials to make a GREAT tourist destination. All other raw materials (with the exception of ecommerce) would have to ship hundreds of miles...not practical in this world. Duluth, MN is the nearest "major city" and is 3 hrs drive away. The northwooods looks southerly and populated compared to us.....and THAT is where the potential lies.

We have all the makings for at least 3 seasons but we lack in much of what a good share of tourists look for (the shops, pools, etc) that you mentioned. I do not know the right recipe is (sounds like you have some experience in this). I know that dying is not an option that I am content with, so we try things. A festival isnt really what I think any of us have in mind longer term....the vision in is to create something very unique that will have a draw and allow people to start new biz ventures and attract more people, etc.

Our biggest "export" here is our high school seniors. There simply is not opportunity unless you create it yourself. And I am the firmest of believers that there is a ton of it here to be created. We are not trying to do anything for the sake of doing it our just having fun, the long term hope is to start something, build on it, then hope that it grows and all the other things will be added.

There are a good number of people that DO already love the area and visit here. We have a ton of non-traditional lodging (like I have, apartment style) and some of the best sledding, atv'ing, skiing, fishing, etc that is around. There are a good number that patronize many of us that are very content not having shops, etc...the focus is to ride and sleep. I do however know that there are others that pass us up because the lack of non-riding "stuff" to do. Talking with a visitor last night online that LOVES it here and would LOVE to see it grow.

We are at ground zero and looking to build something of interest. I gather that from a sledders perspective, riding is the primary purpose and if there are cool eats-drinks nearby it is a plus but traveling to go do "something" isnt likely to happen.

That is what I was looking for. Winter may not be the first-best place to attract (more than already come) on a larger scale.

Ontonagon folks know how to throw a big party. I have seen a couple of these (Labor Day, All School Reunions) and it is fun for all with a capital F for all ages. Those events draw people with roots for the most part, we would like to let the world know how cool this place is and could be.

I think it is almost as I said, a "build it...THEN they will come" thing. Our real solution will have to start small and will be a long term project...it wont happen overnite.

THANK YOU AGAIN!

 

[MZEMS2]

I haven't been to the area for several years, but the last time I rode there I loved it. I believe we stopped and ate and gassed up and we were off. We were riding with a large group that was basically being "guided" for the day trip. I think it would help to really get your area mapped well, and make sure you have a lot of local sponsors on the map, obviously lodging, gas, and food being the most important. Get the other local "guides" to come through your town with their groups. Make sure your maps are updated annually too. People often stare at maps, for days on end, hard copies and online, while planning a trip. Make sure those maps, whether hard copies or online, are accurate and list any events for the winter season. Make sure your chamber of commerce is onboard and does their part in getting ads out as well. As mentioned, I think you'll benifit most doing a one day festival of some sort that riders can swing in for a while to do whatever, then leave after a couple hrs. Make food and drink cheap and accessible to all. Also, there are more and more sledding sites, get the word out on all of the sites you can find. John Dee is awesome, but presonally I go to 3 more sites as well on a daily basis. Get the other local communities to buy into the whole thing, even if it's not in their town, they should assume that riders will trickle through their communities as well if there is something going on down the road. Don't make it just for your town, make it more of a "regional" thing. (50 mile radius) Get everyone to invest in advertising, and make sure you plaster your advertising all over the internet. People don't read the paper anymore, or look at phone books, people use the internet for everything. It's a huge investment/risk to advertise, but if done correctly, it will pay off. Get someone who can commit to designing websites and keep them updated with trail conditions and other local events. I think it's too late for the 10/11 snow season, but if your area businesses all get onboard and invest in advertising, it will work out in the long run. Put yourselves on the map more showing activities and other resources that you have for the entire year. If people come up for the summer and see what you have, they'll be more likely to remember you for their winter plans as well, and vice/versa of course. Good luck!

 

[dcsnomo]

I haven't been to the area for several years, but the last time I rode there I loved it. I believe we stopped and ate and gassed up and we were off. We were riding with a large group that was basically being "guided" for the day trip. I think it would help to really get your area mapped well, and make sure you have a lot of local sponsors on the map, obviously lodging, gas, and food being the most important. Get the other local "guides" to come through your town with their groups. Make sure your maps are updated annually too. People often stare at maps, for days on end, hard copies and online, while planning a trip. Make sure those maps, whether hard copies or online, are accurate and list any events for the winter season. Make sure your chamber of commerce is onboard and does their part in getting ads out as well. As mentioned, I think you'll benifit most doing a one day festival of some sort that riders can swing in for a while to do whatever, then leave after a couple hrs. Make food and drink cheap and accessible to all. Also, there are more and more sledding sites, get the word out on all of the sites you can find. John Dee is awesome, but presonally I go to 3 more sites as well on a daily basis. Get the other local communities to buy into the whole thing, even if it's not in their town, they should assume that riders will trickle through their communities as well if there is something going on down the road. Don't make it just for your town, make it more of a "regional" thing. (50 mile radius) Get everyone to invest in advertising, and make sure you plaster your advertising all over the internet. People don't read the paper anymore, or look at phone books, people use the internet for everything. It's a huge investment/risk to advertise, but if done correctly, it will pay off. Get someone who can commit to designing websites and keep them updated with trail conditions and other local events. I think it's too late for the 10/11 snow season, but if your area businesses all get onboard and invest in advertising, it will work out in the long run. Put yourselves on the map more showing activities and other resources that you have for the entire year. If people come up for the summer and see what you have, they'll be more likely to remember you for their winter plans as well, and vice/versa of course. Good luck!

Yeah, like he said!!
Tell me why I should sled Ontonagon through the sled sites
Have lodging packages for food and drink/rentals
Make sure there is a good trail from the trail to downtown (there wasn't last year) with signage and sled parking
Sell us cheap drinks and fun and we will be back

I have been to Ontonagon, and will go through again several times over the next 6 weeks. I have no idea where to stay 'cause your Chamber isn't telling me...hmmmm!

I will go back to say hi to the b**ch behind the bar...good food!

Good luck! It's a beautiful area...

 

[anonomoose]

I think what she is saying here is that she is looking for a LONG term project that will infuse life back into the community. Not just sledding that may or may not come dependiing upon the snow conditions or a festival and last for a few weeks each year.

My thoughts on this are that you need to THINK long term. Like much of the Upper...you suffer from a lack of jobs and as such most leave...though many come back (except NASH of course ) to retire and get back to their roots.

Look at this from a corporate board meeting:

What assets do you have? Find and list them.

What contributions are the locals willing to make to improve the situation?

What will likely draw folks who would otherwise view your neck of the woods as a pass thru area.

Then work to improve these assets and market them.

One example is to heck with the normal DNR channels and to get some trails that can be used for ATV's and sleds and get them thru areas that are breath taking...from scenic waterfalls, to outlooks, and other places that would draw fishermen, hunter, hikers, and cross country skiers...as well as all the other winter sports. It could be totally private and change a few bucks so you can control who and what gets in there, but maintain it far better than the DNR run stuff. It doesn't have to be gargantuan...just well known for a good time and worth the trip.

You say your a 3 hours from Duluth....do you realize that folks from Ohio, and Indiana, and SE Michigan drive for 10 hours or more to get to Houghton...just to sled?? Target areas of population that are within a reasonable drive and advertise DIRECTLY TO THEM.

It always amazes me to see Canadians who live in the wilds and often on a lake...drive to and own a cottage and hour or more away...when it looks and feels the same as where they live. But the fact is everyone WANTS to get away from home....so you can be the place they can quickly get to and enjoy something that is certified to be fun and yet inexpensive to enjoy.

You have untapped resources there...and you need to stop taking them for granted, and market these things. Biggest stumbling block probably would be the locals who resist change and won't help to market and want things to stay exactly as they are now.

Another example is to market the area is as a business friendly place where a company hungry to begin a branch sees cheap land (maybe free land...as others have done) good pool of labor and some good old fashion STATE money or tax abatements like that which was handed to the film industry...tossed in there to encourage a company to come. Remember...if you build it they will come??? Much of the south got some darn good business by simply being where they are with good pool of labor which was cheap, and cheap land. They now enjoy the benefits of this first somewhat bitter pill to swallow, and are busy building sort of after the fact.

Collectively you can make a difference. Over a lifetime you can see some long term change. It won't come easily, nor will it be quick. But sitt'n on your rump...won't bring a darn thing. Actions...small steady and deliberate bring changes that someday bring some serious results.

 

[anonomoose]

...

 

[thebluff]

I think what she is saying here is that she is looking for a LONG term project that will infuse life back into the community. Not just sledding that may or may not come dependiing upon the snow conditions or a festival and last for a few weeks each year.

My thoughts on this are that you need to THINK long term. Like much of the Upper...you suffer from a lack of jobs and as such most leave...though many come back (except NASH of course ) to retire and get back to their roots.

Look at this from a corporate board meeting:

What assets do you have? Find and list them.

What contributions are the locals willing to make to improve the situation?

What will likely draw folks who would otherwise view your neck of the woods as a pass thru area.

Then work to improve these assets and market them.

One example is to heck with the normal DNR channels and to get some trails that can be used for ATV's and sleds and get them thru areas that are breath taking...from scenic waterfalls, to outlooks, and other places that would draw fishermen, hunter, hikers, and cross country skiers...as well as all the other winter sports. It could be totally private and change a few bucks so you can control who and what gets in there, but maintain it far better than the DNR run stuff. It doesn't have to be gargantuan...just well known for a good time and worth the trip.

You say your a 3 hours from Duluth....do you realize that folks from Ohio, and Indiana, and SE Michigan drive for 10 hours or more to get to Houghton...just to sled?? Target areas of population that are within a reasonable drive and advertise DIRECTLY TO THEM.

It always amazes me to see Canadians who live in the wilds and often on a lake...drive to and own a cottage and hour or more away...when it looks and feels the same as where they live. But the fact is everyone WANTS to get away from home....so you can be the place they can quickly get to and enjoy something that is certified to be fun and yet inexpensive to enjoy.

You have untapped resources there...and you need to stop taking them for granted, and market these things. Biggest stumbling block probably would be the locals who resist change and won't help to market and want things to stay exactly as they are now.

Another example is to market the area is as a business friendly place where a company hungry to begin a branch sees cheap land (maybe free land...as others have done) good pool of labor and some good old fashion STATE money or tax abatements like that which was handed to the film industry...tossed in there to encourage a company to come. Remember...if you build it they will come??? Much of the south got some darn good business by simply being where they are with good pool of labor which was cheap, and cheap land. They now enjoy the benefits of this first somewhat bitter pill to swallow, and are busy building sort of after the fact.

Collectively you can make a difference. Over a lifetime you can see some long term change. It won't come easily, nor will it be quick. But sitt'n on your rump...won't bring a darn thing. Actions...small steady and deliberate bring changes that someday bring some serious results.

Change is exactly what we are trying to implement!

My three hours to Duluth comment was only illustrate that manufacturing is not real likely, we are far from anyplace and not on the way to anywhere. But, as you said...people come for hours and hours (as I once did) to come here.

I think this area (west Yoop I think) was named the top snowmobile destination east of the Rockies or something like that recently. In a 5 county region, we have over 500 miles of marked-legal trails. While some are rail grades, many are not. They are exactly what you describe. MiTrale has a great map that is very accurate (as are the sledding maps we have in our area).

As for free land, abatements...you have to remember that we are in Michigan...one of the least friendly states to do business in. Those things have existed for manufacturing (as a former tool-die shop owner, I utilzed them)....but this aint a biz friendly state!

I have used many of the comments and suggestions here and passed on to our leaders. We are not content sitting back...so we will try and see what happens

 

[anonomoose]

Just remember to "get out of the box"....Michigan might take a backseat to some other states that are more business friendly (maybe that will change soon...who knows) .....

But one thing is for...SURE!

Michigan, and particularly the U.P. has diversity, that is unparalleled in the country. It has WATER....and it has beauty and it's people are friendly and fairly educated. Expound on those virtues....they are rarely touted to the extent they should be.

Anyone who travels this country knows what I am talking about. This place is one-of-a-kind. NOBODY else can take a drink of their lakes...like we can. Streams that run clean and clear, the only other place that comes close is Alaska....and they simply don't have a good location for development...at least the proximity to population centers.

If you had a business, and you wanted to expand...but you want a quality of life that was second to none....and a town offered up free land to build, and zero taxes, and zero state tax...and other credits....you would have to be a fool not to at least investigate....these are the competitive name tags that bring about the very changes you seek.

 

[motor_slut]

It's funny how now this is something that needs to be done but several years ago when people made suggestions to do similar things it was scoffed at and they were told to go away. Now Ontonagon is dead, full of drug users, high school dropouts, and people who don't care about their own towns future.

The problem with Ontonagon is the people living there and the people running everything. When someone comes up with a good idea they don't support it unless it was their own idea and that selfishness is what is killing the whole area.

If you want to do some good for the area educate the locals on how to be respectful before you go looking for tourists to visit. Nobody will go back to an area that doesn't make them feel welcome.

 

[camp10]

We don't ride, but we used to come up there to ski. Both downhill and X-C. Usually stayed in Silver City, but usually ate in Ontanogon.

We stopped coming because of the changes to the ski area. Sure the double chair was ancient, but it allowed access to some fine runs. That snow-cat skiing through the trees is OK, but not for most of my family.

We would make sure we were up for the Snowfest weekend at the ski hill. Enjoyed the torch parade, night X-C ski with the lanterns, etc.

I know this isn't what you are asking, but just thought you'd like another perspective.

 

[snowdancer]

I visited Ontanogan back in August with my husband's uncle. He gave us a tour of the area and we ate in one of your restaurants, shopped in a couple of your stores and we found the people to be very friendly and welcoming. He showed us where your biggest employer had closed up shop, or was about to. Well that certainly doesn't do a community any good. Another company leaving because Michigan isn't a business friendly state.
Well we do have a new governor and I think someone needs to remind him that there is another part to Michigan! The most beautiful part!! We need to appeal to him to give out more tax breaks, and tax free lands to MAKE Michigan more business friendly. I am sure he would like to leave a legacy as the "ONE" who saved the state. And he's going to need more help than just from the politicians he will surround himself with.
Michigan is in a unique position right now. Right now most industry has left, so that is probably good from an enviromental stance, but bad from an economic point of view. In the near future Michigan is going to become one of THE most important states in the union. By 2050 the world's population is going to double, and then the fight will be on. Not for oil, but for fresh water. We must teach our children to hang onto their lands in Michigan!! We must also be careful about who we LET do business in Michigan. After all we are going to have the world's largest, freshest water supply! Think about it!! Right now times are tough in Michigan, but that will turn around and we need to be prepared for those that will want to come here to live and do business.
So with those thoughts in mind I will leave the post and let you get back to topic. At this time I don't know what you can do to bring more people to your area because as I speak I am sure they are raising the price of gas, AGAIN! This is always a determining factor as to where people will go. Best of luck to you and the people of Ontanogan.

 

[frnash]

I visited Ontanogan [sic] back in August with my husband's uncle. … Best of luck to you and the people of Ontanogan [sic].

Or even better, the people of Ontonagon! (Octagon, Hexagon, Ontonagon!)

 

[scott_b]

I can't believe the UP is not more busy in the summer, maybe resorts need to give people who stay with them in winter vouchers for buy one night get one free during the summer months...

 

[roundhouse]

I grew up in the UP about an hour from Ontonagon. This will be a challenge as Ontonagon has reputation as a gritty industrial town whose skyline was dominated by the mill and the smell, even the shuttered shipyard.

When it comes to festivals and guest packages etc. you may do well to consider where people are coming from and where the rooms are. Many of the visitors would travel through the Ironwood area where there is an abundance of motel rooms (especially off prime skiing season). People from the twin cities would be four hours from Ironwood, set up home base there and spend the day at your event an hour away. Also promote the stops in between in order to give them a reason to drive the rest of the way; Lake Gogebic, Presque Isle Falls, Lake of the Clouds, and the Lake Superior shore.

Now, what to do when they get there?

Here's my 2 cents and what I would set up if I was "in charge". When my family would go and spend the day in Ontonagon it was during the Labor Day Celebration when the local Rotary Club would coordinate the "Rotary Express" train rides right out of the depot downtown. Some years the train would go out as far as Rockland, other years it would go out to Mass City. The trains were full and drew people from a wide area. The station and the track are still in place although unused now. This is a unique asset that exists in almost no other UP town anymore.

Even if the railroad starts to abandon track as they've been granted permission to do, Ontonagon would do well to save the portion of the line from Ontonagon to Mass City. With some used equipment a train on this track would be the focal point of an "Adventure Sport Corridor" between Ontonagon and Mass City.

What does that mean?

I see it as a way to leverage special events throughout the year. Ontonagon is too close to the lake for the big snow seen in Rockland-Mass. Why not have a flatcar guys can drive their sleds right onto in Rockland for the trip into town when trails are snirty by the lake. If the machines are secured in Rockland for the night, there could be a rr party train to town and back a couple hours later.

When it's not winter have a canoeing/kayak adventure train that brings people from Ontonagon to Rockland where they put into the Ontonagon River and float back down to town. Promote mountain biking, bikes hauled up on the train to Mass, then riden on a scenic route back to town. Host a history tour, the train brings people to Rockland, they board a stagecoach for the short ride to Old Victoria where they tour the recontructed townsite, dam etc.

Include people new to the sports, promote half-day "experience snowmobiling" "experince mountain biking" etc. where the train brings people out to a spot where all the gear is waiting for them and they get one-on-one instruction and get to play for a couple hours. Some will do this once, some will come back for a week with their own gear, some will refer friend to "try it".

Ontonagon has good lake access with the harbor. Give all the people in personal boats a reason to pull into Ontonagon for a night or two. They'll stay on their boat but spend money on food etc. Promote the fact that they can dock next to the train and walk to it for a ride into the interior of the county for the history tour etc.

If things go well add dinner, pizza, murder mystery trains.

This is all on top of people who simply want to experience a scenic train ride. Plenty of train rides have failed by not offering more but by using it as a focal point and jumping off point for "adventure" it would become the selling point in bringing people to Ontonagon.

I realize there would be a lot to work in setting up "the Adventure Sport Corridor" but I think Ontonagon has a lot of potential if the truly unique assets are identified and promoted in a cohesive way.