Negotiating a Salary

[600_RMK_144]

One specific point I would like to make here is that you DO currently have a job. Now, I know you want this job, but you don't HAVE TO HAVE IT. This goes a long ways in your process. As you said earlier you don't want to try a counter and have them take the original offer off the table. IF you were currently un-employed, this would be a HUGE risk, but being as you are gainfully employed, I would go for it!!! My .02

 

[catalltheway]

My wife went through this earlier this year when she switched companies (large insurance company). She countered the offer and came in Double what she was looking for the salary to exceed by and they pretty much came right in target what she was looking for.

Keep in mind bonuses etc.

Personally for me when I have an employee quit I never try and retain them. See Ya Bye is my strategy. Plus your mind is already gone so retaining someone that has been looking ehhhh I pass on that.

 

[booondocker]

...Personally for me when I have an employee quit I never try and retain them. See Ya Bye is my strategy. Plus your mind is already gone so retaining someone that has been looking ehhhh I pass on that.

While this is your right, as an employer, I respectfully disagree.

As an employee, you are a commodity that can be replaced at the drop of a hat. As such you are foolish not to "test the waters" from time to time to make sure you are being paid somewhere near the going rates because you need to watch out for YOU in the process.

While a company may not like the "water testing processes" it is what it is. Any employer who wants to keep quality staff either has to be sure they are already paying the going rate, or they are taking full advantage of employees who they are getting cheaply. This is dog eat dog stuff!

Long ago, employers looked out for employees. Employees used to give their working career's to the company which the company gave back well beyond a gold watch. Now-a-days, if they can figure out how to save benefits or can hire two for the price of one....you are more than likely living on borrowed time.

One more thing to remember for Fire...that is if you are being paid the "high bucks" and the economy turns...guess who gets to the cutting board the fastest?!

Lots of good advice on here but in reality salaries are posted all over the web today and with some research you can see where you are or where you are going by searching your job title. This will get you some basic idea to be sure you aren't being unreasonable for the job given, workload, region of the country, etc.

One last tidbit to consider and that is the extended time you will be on the road to the new job. Easy ride? Traffic jams? Bad weather? Extra fuel used, and wear on the old jalopy. It will add up and what looks really good now, might not be so good after 4 months of doing the drive.

 

[whitedust]

boon: Be carefull with that advise........ Anyone that, "test the waters," as you say better be ready to walk. Any employee that pulled that crap with me would feel the door hit him/her in the a$$ on his/her way out. I would not want anyone on my team that felt they were under compensated period. After any review with me you knew were you stood & what you needed to do for a raise. If you were super good you got the big hit & that meant someone else got less or nothing that is the way budgets work. If you got $0 save me the hassle of putting you on probation & leave........ make us both happy.lol

 

[booondocker]

Moose: Be carefull with that advise........ Anyone that, "test the waters," as you say better be ready to walk. Any employee that pulled that crap with me would feel the door hit him/her in the a$$ on his/her way out. I would not want anyone on my team that felt they were under compensated period. After any review with me you knew were you stood & what you needed to do for a raise. If you were super good you got the big hit & that meant someone else got less or nothing that is the way budgets work. If you got $0 save me the hassle of putting you on probation & leave........ make us both happy.lol

Let's analyze the above statement!

Employers, need employees. You wash my back and I wash yours. If an employee is unhappy about wages, benefits, work loads, hours they usually begin to "look". Why? Because most of the time the employer is taking advantage of the situation or more to the point, knows he is getting 110% work for 100% pay. "Hey, buddy...just be glad you have a job" or "there are plenty of others out there who would only be too glad to take your spot" so on and so forth. But in reality, if an employee is happy with his job, and hours and work load and the resulting pay, there really isn't much need to "test the waters" is there?

If the employee leaves, there is an empty spot that now needs to be filled and often as not, the employer WILL find out what the previous employee was worth, (whether or not he wants to face it or not) because the employer will now have to fill that spot and pay that going rate and let's not forget that sometimes you end up with someone who doesn't know what he/she is doing and there is the learning curve which results in poor production. As any employer knows, a revolving door hiring policy always equates to lower production waste and lost time which likely would have been avoided if the other employee had stayed.

So whenever the equation gets out of balance, believe that it will re-find that balance once the employee leaves and you fill that spot. If the employee was worth what he thought he was worth it will then be determined by what you have to pay someone else to replace him or her. Most employers who come to grips with this keep an on going process of evaluation going which for the most part, keep this relationship in equilibrium and for folks like YOU Mr. Employer, if you are all fired ready to shut the door behind a faithful employee, then it is as far as I can tell an admission that you want more than what you are willing to pay for and would be one SOB to work for. Supply and demand at work finding that equilibrium no matter what the conditions or employment rate is.

Employees are commodities of varying value. You most often get what you pay for, and visa versa. Good ones usually are worth the cost to keep them happy as anyone who doesn't bunk up to cheap labor will tell you...truthfully.

 

[whitedust]

boon: And the big wheel keeps on turning with or without you because it has too no one person makes or breaks any company. I had a bud below my level leave for more money. On his exit the VP said to him you should have talked to me about your circumstances. My bud asked me how could I talk to him he would have blown up rained all over me. I agreed my bud had to have the other job in his hip pocket or would not have been pretty. The company did not counter & he left. If you test & bring the test to your manager's attention be ready to accept the follow on circumstances you put into motion. No problem interviewing for another upward position it keeps you fresh & informed but if your current organization finds out you are on a slippery slope. Just the way it is in my experience with S&P companies.

 

[xsledder]

Personally for me when I have an employee quit I never try and retain them. See Ya Bye is my strategy. Plus your mind is already gone so retaining someone that has been looking ehhhh I pass on that.

Yep, same policy at my company. You look for another job and come to us with news that you are leaving, we won't counter offer. We ask for your resignation letter and your gone a few hours later after all the termination papers are prepared. We will ask why you are leaving but the answer really doesn't matter. I agree with you catalltheway, once they start looking they're no value to the company.

lofsfire, ask for a review in six months and a raise then. This usually goes over better than a counter-offer because no matter how well you did in the interview to secure an offer, they are still taking a risk with you; and they will see the six month review as a way of you acknowledging their risk and willingness to share in it.

booon, your posts gave me a chuckle because they are a little (no a lot) far-fetched.

 

[booondocker]

....booon, your posts gave me a chuckle because they are a little (no a lot) far-fetched.

Yeah, from an employer's perspective they always look "far-fetched" because the employer usually wants to get as much for as little as possible...as someone else posted, it is the budget that dictates pay raises...and most employers what to keep the profits fat and the expenses lien.

But from an employees perspective there is a market for what you know and your production. Once a long time ago, companies cared about an employee's well being. Today they look at an employee as a tool. Use it until it gets dull, broken, or non-productive and then discard it.

Of course these are general statements, and perhaps YOUR company is different. Maybe you would take care of the employee no matter what. Unfortunately, that is a value that is becoming scarce as hen's teeth today.

So any employee that does NOT check to see where he stands is likely to be exploited by management to some degree, and in some cases to a large degree.

So if Sledder has the luxury of just canning anyone who even suggests they should be getting a raise commensurate with their abilities, either there is an abundance of that grade employee to be had, or he is a glutton for punishment as he re-trains, and absorbs the learning curve non-productive time along with probably paying what he would have paid had he simply kept the original employee; he understood with that employee what his production abilities were but chose to not pay the going rate which he is now forced to pay to get those very same services.

 

[catalac]

Yes sir!

 

[lofsfire]

Just wanted to give a quick update, I made my counter offer and they took it no questions asked. Which most likely means I could have asked for more. LOL But really I think I did good, I Know I was under paid at my current job, but there were other perks that made up for the cash in my eyes. Just waiting on all the official paperwork now, before turning my 2 weeks in. So thanks for all the advice.

 

[booondocker]

Great job! Now take a few minutes to go back and think about how you approached this process, and what worked and what may not have worked so you can be more confident if and when you have to go thru this process again.

Can I ask if you were filling a hole or did they create this position for you?

Good luck on the new job ...keeps life interesting!

 

[lofsfire]

They did not come straight out say, but from the sound of it they have add this position due to an increased workload.

 

[scott_b]

Congrats. Buying yourself a nice congratulatory present?

 

[Skylar]

Congrats!!

 

[xsledder]

..and most employers what to keep the profits fat and the expenses lien.

Da! But I won't say fat, I would say reasonable. We try for 15% in our industry, would you say that is fat? After all, any problem created by the employee is still the responsibility of the employeer. You can delegate authority but not responsibility. (Mentioned may times in leadership development seminars.) So why not get fat and have some money available for when the bad times hit. It is not a matter of if, but when a mistake is made and you have to pay.

So if Sledder has the luxury of just canning anyone who even suggests they should be getting a raise commensurate with their abilities...

But, I didn't say I would fire them if they came to me first. If they come to me with another offer already in hand expecting a counter-offer, yep, I let them go.

...either there is an abundance of that grade employee to be had, or he is a glutton for punishment as he re-trains, and absorbs the learning curve non-productive time along with probably paying what he would have paid had he simply kept the original employee; he understood with that employee what his production abilities were but chose to not pay the going rate which he is now forced to pay to get those very same services.

The way I see it in my field and industry, everyday my employees have to learn something new and adapt and overcome because in my industry nothing is ever the same thing twice. So, we put policies and procedures in-place to establish some consistenency in the workflow process. With that said, every new job is lost productivity even with old employees because evey job is different. So that is why I chuckle at your well-oil machine concept. In my reality, there is no such thing! It usually takes a year before we figure out if someone was worth it or not. And if you keep them, then you have to deal with one, or more, of the 13 problem types.

I can see from reading a number of your essays on this site that if you worked for me, I would be dealing with a smarty pants and prima donna.


By the way, congrats lofsfire. I hope you find your new job truely rewarding.

 

[lofsfire]

Well here is my final update on the job, I GOT IT! I received a call yesterday and was told they are ready for me to start on the 17th. Gave my two weeks, my boss took it better than I thought. So all is well, and no new sled this year, need a truck before the sled.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[EXCESSIVE FORCE]

Congrats !!!

 

[yamahauler]

Congrats