New Snowmobile Trail Signing

[caged_beagle]

Novices?

What about the novices that we seem to have been bombarded with in this sport the last few years. I have no problem with the newbies but I think their learning curve is going to be that much more lengthy and dangerous without these supplemental suggestions that we have taken for granted.

So, again? What about the novices that need all the help they can get while riding an unfamiliar machine, on unfamiliar terrain in a high speed (usually) life-threatening sport?

_______________________

 

[Hoosier]

I don't know how I feel about this issue or whether it will work. Bottom line, speeds are too fast and they are trying to figure a way to change that without general speed limits. The issue of the signs or no signs was debated to death over the winter. Anyone have any other ideas for bringing down the speeds? Machines are going to keep getting faster and handle better, but rider skill won't so the margin for error will continue to get smaller unless a way is found to control the speed. I'd hate to see a 50 mph speed limit, for example.

 

[polarisrider1]

Want to slow us up a bit, do the most non favorite thing..........stop grooming, nothing like 3 foot moguls to slow me up a bit.........But again, "skimming the bumps" has always been a sport and a standard in the LP. (is that what we call it down here LP?) lol

 

[russholio]

because the "Ricky Racers" will not slow down for anything.

Bingo.

There is no logic in a learning curve that will result in more injuies and deaths!

Sure would be nice to have the President of the MSA to pipe in here to get the logic from the horses mouth, assuming he's a member...

Okay, maybe "logic" was a poor choice of words.....how 'bout "reasoning"?

 

[mjkaliszak]

Lately... my concern has been for the riders I bring with.... I don't need them getting hit by an oncoming . Good thing to have your sleds insured incase disaster happens. I have been almost hit several times when signage was plentiful. Maybe some aftermarket company will come out with a barricade bumper for those of us that ride lead dog. I still don't like the idea....

Maybe I just sell all the trail sleds and make a couple of trips out west and call it good.

 

[whitedust]

Well for me I'll ride see what has changed that affects me & take it from there. I agree with Mrs RB that we ALL need to know what,where & how signage has changed. As far as slowing anyone down less signage is a joke.lol I understand their logic that less signs may slow some riders down but not Ricky as he is he is **** bent for leather anyway & if he cared he already would have slowed down. Get ready to ride high in the berm corners when Ricky is far left as he does not use signage anyway. Newbies will go slower but they are problem to pass already & block trails. IMO all this newly changed trail signage will not alter rider habits you can't ride faster than your outlook anyway & signs can help to warn of hazards but if signs not there Oh well once thru & you will know. If you have poor trail imprint lack of signs will slow you way down. The bigger problem to me is sweepers blocking trails not allowing faster sleds to pass saftely which creates the most dangerous conditions of all.

 

[Hoosier]

So how do we stop Ricky? He seems to be the b**** that is causing all the problems!

 

[russholio]

Well for me I'll ride see what has changed that affects me & take it from there. I agree with Mrs RB that we ALL need to know what,where & how signage has changed. As far as slowing anyone down less signage is a joke.lol I understand their logic that less signs may slow some riders down but not Ricky as he is he is **** bent for leather anyway & if he cared he already would have slowed down. Get ready to ride high in the berm corners when Ricky is far left as he does not use signage anyway. Newbies will go slower but they are problem to pass already & block trails. IMO all this newly changed trail signage will not alter rider habits you can't ride faster than your outlook anyway & signs can help to warn of hazards but if signs not there Oh well once thru & you will know. If you have poor trail imprint lack of signs will slow you way down. The bigger problem to me is sweepers blocking trails not allowing faster sleds to pass saftely which creates the most dangerous conditions of all.

That's my sentiment, too. Ricky and PTR's are going to do what they do....I think the only people the lack of signs will slow down are those who are riding slow/cautiously already (which will prompt complaints from faster riders who are already frustrated about running up on slow-moving riders). I think if they really felt the need to implement this removal of signage, at least they should have implemented it in stages over a period of a couple years and accompanied it with a large awareness program to make sure everybody (or at least, as many as possible) knows that it's coming.

I agree that some signs are redundant and virtually useless (a "winding trail" sign posted in a winding trail, for example) and could be removed with little to no ill effect, but I fear that many they plan to remove serve a very useful purpose. I guess time will tell.

 

[Dave_B]

So how do we stop Ricky? He seems to be the b**** that is causing all the problems!

We can't stop him. The tree will take care of that!

 

[Hoosier]

We can't stop him. The tree will take care of that!

Hopefully it's a tree and not me or my sled coming the other way! I suppose the best way to avoid Ricky is to stay off the trails after noon on Fridays and Saturdays.

 

[pwolfy2003]

***?????????????????????

What in the **** are they smokin? If the money has been spent and the signs are already in place why not leave them up? Omg I am amazed how dumb this is . Wont the clubs be somewhat liable if something isnt marked properly? I just keep thinking about this and it just makes no sense, unless Im missing something

 

[Woodtic]

I hope they remove the '' stay on the trail'' or No trespassing,because no one reads those anyway.

 

[Dave_B]

I hope they remove the '' stay on the trail'' or No trespassing,because no one reads those anyway.

Good point!

Hopefully they don't add "watch for barbed wire" signs.

 

[whitedust]

What in the **** are they smokin? If the money has been spent and the signs are already in place why not leave them up? Omg I am amazed how dumb this is . Wont the clubs be somewhat liable if something isnt marked properly? I just keep thinking about this and it just makes no sense, unless Im missing something

Liablity crossed my mind too not sure about lawsuits for accidents because signs were removed that were there last season. There will be lawsuits with no warning of bridge ahead & common sense warning signs. I guess DNR & MSA think any accident is the riders fault no matter the signage but in area were there were warning signs & now are gone I just don't know legally how that will turn out? I know I would be pissed in that type of stituation if it happned to me with Ricky on my side of trail & he pleads "I would have been going slower but no warning sign so why slow down?"

 

[Dave_B]

Each club got a "manual" to follow. I assume that liability of the club is limited as this is being instituted by the DNR. We just have to do what they say. I will try to get a copy and post it, if possible. I may need your help on this one Linda. I don't have Khris's phone number.

From what I was told, the signs are down and being collected by the DNR to be shredded.

 

[Hoosier]

Liablity crossed my mind too not sure about lawsuits for accidents because signs were removed that were there last season. There will be lawsuits with no warning of bridge ahead & common sense warning signs. I guess DNR & MSA think any accident is the riders fault no matter the signage but in area were there were warning signs & now are gone I just don't know legally how that will turn out? I know I would be pissed in that type of stituation if it happned to me with Ricky on my side of trail & he pleads "I would have been going slower but no warning sign so why slow down?"

I bet liability factored into this but in a different way - if you try to mark all the obstacles but miss one (you can't mark everything perfectly), the ricky in the accident may claim they were relying on the signs. But if you don't mark any of them, the ricky can't say he was relying on the signs.

Ricky isn't on this site, so it's probably our responsibility to have words with Ricky whenever possible out on the trail.

 

[danschevyv8]

MSA sold us down the river again. Dan

 

[mrsrunningbear]

Each club got a "manual" to follow. I assume that liability of the club is limited as this is being instituted by the DNR. We just have to do what they say. I will try to get a copy and post it, if possible. I may need your help on this one Linda. I don't have Khris's phone number.

From what I was told, the signs are down and being collected by the DNR to be shredded.

Dave the manual is in the 6th post on this thread. It only tells us what to use now nothing about what is being removed that came in a letter. This is a copy of the letter.

Again it a done deal no complaining will change things! We just need to educate people to the change. I heard yesterday the DNR will be having a campaign on letting people know about the change...I hope so!

The Department of Natural Resources (DNR) is announcing updated guidelines for regulatory signing on state designated motorized trails. The new Michigan Motorized Trail Signing Handbook (Signing Handbook) is posted on the DNR website at Motorized Trail Signing Handbook.

The new program for snowmobile trails will be implemented during the 2012-2013 snowmobile season. Snowmobile sponsors should take this into consideration when completing the 2012‑2013 Snowmobile Trail Sign Order form which was sent to you March 22, 2012.

The new Off-Road Vehicle (ORV) confidence trail marker program is covered in the new Signing Handbook. The ORV confidence marker program will be phased-in as funding allows. More information and timing for this program will be covered in future notifications.

A Summary of Signing Changes Are as Follows:

Eliminate ten (10) committee selected snowmobile signs.

Add five (5) new snowmobile signs and add guidelines for placement

Reduce size of regulatory signs in the ORV program to make them consistent with snowmobile; implemented in 2011.

Replace ORV trail markers with new highly visible yellow trail markers. Installation will be phased in over the next several years.

The new guidelines are a result of recommendations of a citizen advisory workgroup comprised of trail riding enthusiasts, trail maintenance organizations, members of both the ORV and Snowmobile Advisory Workgroups, and DNR trail and enforcement staff.

 

[Dave_B]

Thanks Linda! I figured it was a bunch of crap!

 

[Dave_B]

There is no educating people here. I thick the bulk of us will manage the changes with little inconvience.

As stated before, it's the idiot teenage ricky rockets that are going to kill people and ride'em like their dad bought them. If I offend someone, I don't care! This the worst thing I've seen happen to our sport ever!