I'm sure as heck he meant all those from Milwaukee and Madison, maybe even Wausau and Stevens Point. LOL!
Another thing, you can't compare out west with the up north in terms of people on the trails. Not even close!
My observations have been that most IL people are sitting in the Bar or Resaurant supporting our Economy telling everyone about how many miles they put on. If you want to look up something, check on how many of those fatalities were drunk.
Furthermore drunks do not read Signs if they are to drunk to see them.
You were the one translating what I meant so I figured I would explain.
You'll have to go a bit more in depth to get a real feel for that - the reports only list a "Y" or "N" for alcohol, which means even the slightest drink is a Y. How much it played a role in EACH accident is totally open for debate and just like always, can not be be black and white. I do feel Blackhawkbob has a plenty fair point. Then again my age group (25-35) get's a bad rap under potentially false pretenses as well.
Sounds like you must be bellied up to the bar with all the IL folks too...not really helping your cause here.
Thanks, but most Illinois people that I know make the most of their valuable vacation time by riding. We can sit in bars anywhere and talk crap.
lolactually I do not drink and I have probably put up more Trail signs than the average city slicker rides in a year.
skeeter2010
Member
I read through most of the post and I am a little concerned with the bride signage also typically you always end up with a kicker right before or after the bridge from people slamming on the brakes and getting back on it after the bridge. With no signage stating that a bridge is a head the people who enter the bridge may find a spine buster at full speed with a narrow area to navigate.
I would assume this signage is going to be addressed when replacements are needed they are not going to be removing signs correct? also how does this compare with Wisconsin trail markers not that it is truly matters but you would think there would be some consistence between the states.
Isn't knowledge the best way to reduce accidents? kind of like a stop ahead sign if there are two signs informing you wouldn't you be less likely to miss the stop sign.
Let’s hope for a safe season and a gradual reduction in signs
I would assume this signage is going to be addressed when replacements are needed they are not going to be removing signs correct? also how does this compare with Wisconsin trail markers not that it is truly matters but you would think there would be some consistence between the states.
Isn't knowledge the best way to reduce accidents? kind of like a stop ahead sign if there are two signs informing you wouldn't you be less likely to miss the stop sign.
Let’s hope for a safe season and a gradual reduction in signs
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D
Deleted member 10829
Guest
I stated in the first post, and was quoting from the other thread, that they have in fact taken the old signs down. I don't get it myself. All of those signs shown above that they are not using anymore mostly warned of danger. Now we are on our own! Typical government involvement.
the following signs are being removed: Bridge ahead, chevron, deer crossing, drift area, narrow bridge, narrow trail, crossing, truck traffic, two way trail, winding trail.
New signs: combination horizontal alignment( left & right) (these bright yellow signs with directional arrows may be used on snowmobile trails to give notice of changes in horizontal trail alignment less than 90* where an intersection occurs within or immediately adjacent to a turn).
Private Drives ahead(these signs may be used to warn trail users where driveways cross a snowmobile trail
One direction large arrow ( left & right) these signs will be used on snowmobile trails to give notice of changes in horizontal trail alignment of 90* or more. One direction large arrow signs are 10x20 inches, yellow reflective signs with a black arrow and border.
"Next (number of) miles"- supplemental plaque ( these signs may be installed below "private drives ahead" asigns to indicate how many miles long the stretch of trail with private drives runs).
Trail closed to wheeled motor vehicles ahead
the DNR will continue to mark 90* turns with "sharp turn" warning asigns supplemented with s new directioinal arrow.
Part of the reasoning for the reduced signing is: rather than driving from sign to sign, you will now drive the trail, the intent is to slow the driver down. Time will tell.
New signs: combination horizontal alignment( left & right) (these bright yellow signs with directional arrows may be used on snowmobile trails to give notice of changes in horizontal trail alignment less than 90* where an intersection occurs within or immediately adjacent to a turn).
Private Drives ahead(these signs may be used to warn trail users where driveways cross a snowmobile trail
One direction large arrow ( left & right) these signs will be used on snowmobile trails to give notice of changes in horizontal trail alignment of 90* or more. One direction large arrow signs are 10x20 inches, yellow reflective signs with a black arrow and border.
"Next (number of) miles"- supplemental plaque ( these signs may be installed below "private drives ahead" asigns to indicate how many miles long the stretch of trail with private drives runs).
Trail closed to wheeled motor vehicles ahead
the DNR will continue to mark 90* turns with "sharp turn" warning asigns supplemented with s new directioinal arrow.
Part of the reasoning for the reduced signing is: rather than driving from sign to sign, you will now drive the trail, the intent is to slow the driver down. Time will tell.
I spent Saturday signing about 40 miles of trail for my club, along with my son and 4 other club members. I have to agree that I will miss the bridge ahead signs the most, due to the same reasons as stated above with large moguls on both sides of the bridge. It's certainly true that you can no longer ride sign to sign - there just aren't enough signs left! We put up a lot of those 10 X 20 arrow signs at corners, along with the 'Sharp Turn' 90-degree arrow signs before a turn. We typically placed both 10 X 20 arrows on the same post on the outside of the corner, with one arrow being visible from each direction on the trail, one pointing right, one pointing left, etc. Believe me when I say this, if you're carrying too much speed that arrow comes way too late because it's right at the corner, if you see the 90-degree arrow sign, slow down, there's a sharpie coming up.
StreetnSnow
New member
I wonder what the powers that be consider an acceptable increase in fatalities this year. I wouldn't be surprised to see an increase of 50% or more for the state of MI, with a 100% increase well within reach.
I hope I'm wrong!!
I hope I'm wrong!!
1st we need snow then see how it goes nothing else we can do this season. I always have a few oops a season in UP but studs always saved me when locked it up. Without studs I would have been in trouble. Newbies is who I worry about.
StreetnSnow
New member
Me too. Especially less experienced riders who might be leading for the first time this season. Many are used to following a tail light through the woods and can't really read terrain. Add to that equation a thin season for WI, MN, or lower MI, & the high UP traffic levels that follow, and it's a recipe for disaster.
snowlover2
New member
Removing signs is insanity! Especially in the UP with the all that wonderful lake effect snow. Sometimes a rider can barely see the trail due to blinding snowfall. The more signs for reference and recognition the better. Does Michigan have a fatality problem? I see this doing more harm than good in the long run and so does everyone else I've talked to. We're already paying a $45 permit fee and now they are taking away trail markers? I love riding the UP and I hope we won't experience any bad situations because of lackluster signage. Wisconsin hasn't changed so if they have snow just ride there, right?
People don't read signs, in my opinion. I am a construction engineer and I have seen it first hand on the roads these idiots that steer and don't drive. I close down a road for the summer and for the first week or two these idiots don't read the 4' X 4' fluorescent orange signs that say "ROAD CLOSED 1 MILE AHEAD" and then don't read to follow the detour, it just astounds me. The detour starts at an intersection and these people just keep on going on the normal route until 8 barricades block the road. And then they yell at me, "How am I supposed to get to Racine?!"
I don't think snowmobilers like drivers will notice the old signs gone and will not notice the new ones either on the trail.
All I hear right now, Oh the outrage, the humanity, we're all gonna die! Maybe people should just drive and don't steer. Pay attention to your surroundings and enjoy the adventure.
I don't think snowmobilers like drivers will notice the old signs gone and will not notice the new ones either on the trail.
All I hear right now, Oh the outrage, the humanity, we're all gonna die! Maybe people should just drive and don't steer. Pay attention to your surroundings and enjoy the adventure.
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chevytaHOE5674
New member
Agreed. This summer the highway between Greenland and Ontonagon was closed. There was signs, flashing light, and barricades and still many people would drive around all of that and get to the spot in the road where the culvert/road was missing and then get mad because there was "no warning that the road was closed..." For gosh sakes you had to drive around 18 barricades and past 3 detour signs and many flashing lights. I couldn't believe the dozens of people that I talked that were mad because there was no signs posts, when in fact they just didn't see the dozens that were up... haha
I'm hearing the same outcry of fear that I heard before the motorcycle helmet law was repealed about how there was going to be fatalities everywhere. Just like the helmet law I think the sign change will have no impact on safety.
If the snowfall is blinding maybe you go a speed safe for operation of your toy? Snowmobiling does have a fatality problem, yes. Any bad situations will, as always, be brought on by poor driving decisions... blaming a lack of a sign is a sad excuse. Have fun in Wisconsin.