Nobody should be surprised by this ethanol study

Study: Fuels from corn waste not better than gas


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-04-21-04-02-59

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Biofuels made from the leftovers of harvested corn plants are worse than gasoline for global warming in the short term, a study shows, challenging the Obama administration's conclusions that they are a much cleaner oil alternative and will help combat climate change.

A $500,000 study paid for by the federal government and released Sunday in the peer-reviewed journal Nature Climate Change concludes that biofuels made with corn residue release 7 percent more greenhouse gases in the early years compared with conventional gasoline.

While biofuels are better in the long run, the study says they won't meet a standard set in a 2007 energy law to qualify as renewable fuel.

The conclusions deal a blow to what are known as cellulosic biofuels, which have received more than a billion dollars in federal support but have struggled to meet volume targets mandated by law. About half of the initial market in cellulosics is expected to be derived from corn residue.

The biofuel industry and administration officials immediately criticized the research as flawed. They said it was too simplistic in its analysis of carbon loss from soil, which can vary over a single field, and vastly overestimated how much residue farmers actually would remove once the market gets underway.

"The core analysis depicts an extreme scenario that no responsible farmer or business would ever employ because it would ruin both the land and the long-term supply of feedstock. It makes no agronomic or business sense," said Jan Koninckx, global business director for biorefineries at DuPont.

Later this year the company is scheduled to finish a $200 million-plus facility in Nevada, Iowa, that will produce 30 million gallons of cellulosic ethanol using corn residue from nearby farms. An assessment paid for by DuPont said that the ethanol it will produce there could be more than 100 percent better than gasoline in terms of greenhouse gas emissions.

The research is among the first to attempt to quantify, over 12 Corn Belt states, how much carbon is lost to the atmosphere when the stalks, leaves and cobs that make up residue are removed and used to make biofuel, instead of left to naturally replenish the soil with carbon. The study found that regardless of how much corn residue is taken off the field, the process contributes to global warming.

"I knew this research would be contentious," said Adam Liska, the lead author and an assistant professor of biological systems engineering at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. "I'm amazed it has not come out more solidly until now."

The Environmental Protection Agency's own analysis, which assumed about half of corn residue would be removed from fields, found that fuel made from corn residue, also known as stover, would meet the standard in the energy law. That standard requires cellulosic biofuels to release 60 percent less carbon pollution than gasoline.

Cellulosic biofuels that don't meet that threshold could be almost impossible to make and sell. Producers wouldn't earn the $1 per gallon subsidy they need to make these expensive fuels and still make a profit. Refiners would shun the fuels because they wouldn't meet their legal obligation to use minimum amounts of next-generation biofuels.

EPA spokeswoman Liz Purchia said in a statement that the study "does not provide useful information relevant to the life cycle greenhouse gas emissions from corn stover ethanol."

But an AP investigation last year found that the EPA's analysis of corn-based ethanol failed to predict the environmental consequences accurately.

The departments of Agriculture and Energy have initiated programs with farmers to make sure residue is harvested sustainably. For instance, farmers will not receive any federal assistance for conservation programs if too much corn residue is removed.

A peer-reviewed study performed at the Energy Department's Argonne National Laboratory in 2012 found that biofuels made with corn residue were 95 percent better than gasoline in greenhouse gas emissions. That study assumed some of the residue harvested would replace power produced from coal, reducing greenhouse gas emissions, but it's unclear whether future biorefineries would do that.

Liska agrees that using some of the residue to make electricity, or planting cover crops, would reduce carbon emissions. But he did not include those in his computer simulation.

Still, corn residue is likely to be a big source early on for cellulosic biofuels, which have struggled to reach commercial scale. Last year, for the fifth time, the EPA proposed reducing the amount required by law. It set a target of 17 million gallons for 2014. The law envisioned 1.75 billion gallons being produced this year.

"The study says it will be very hard to make a biofuel that has a better greenhouse gas impact than gasoline using corn residue," which puts it in the same boat as corn-based ethanol, said David Tilman, a professor at the University of Minnesota who has done research on biofuels' emissions from the farm to the tailpipe.

Tilman said it was the best study on the issue he has seen so far.

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Follow Dina Cappiello's environment coverage on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/dinacappiello
 

Hoosier

Well-known member
I like how the adminstration, the EPA and the biofuel producers immediately called the study flawed.

Can we please just have 100% gas back now?
 
G

G

Guest
Won't happen. Too much money invested in this scam. Kickbacks are in place long term. Very disruptive to stop them. We are stuck with this crap forever.
 

SledTL

Active member
If you have one of those flex fuel engines will your car run ok still on your typical 10% ethanol since it's meant to run on up to E85. I wrote my research paper on this last year, and it just isn't a feasible thing to run our vehicles on corn. The US looks toward Brazil because they are running their stuff on soybean ethanol, but everyone turns their eyes from the deforestation that is causing even more issues with the emissions. The US would probably be better off by taking the money they spend on subsidies to plant new forests. We screwed ourselves over far far ago and there really isn't anything we can do. The only way I could see corn ethanol being useful is if they could figure out how to make plastics and items from that rather than using crude oil. I'm no liberal, but treating the earth with respect just comes from being an outdoors person. Really wish more people had an overall appreciation for nature....
 

Hoosier

Well-known member
If you have one of those flex fuel engines will your car run ok still on your typical 10% ethanol since it's meant to run on up to E85. I wrote my research paper on this last year, and it just isn't a feasible thing to run our vehicles on corn. The US looks toward Brazil because they are running their stuff on soybean ethanol, but everyone turns their eyes from the deforestation that is causing even more issues with the emissions. The US would probably be better off by taking the money they spend on subsidies to plant new forests. We screwed ourselves over far far ago and there really isn't anything we can do. The only way I could see corn ethanol being useful is if they could figure out how to make plastics and items from that rather than using crude oil. I'm no liberal, but treating the earth with respect just comes from being an outdoors person. Really wish more people had an overall appreciation for nature....

Huh? I have no idea what you are talking about. I agree ethanol isn't economically or environmentally efficient, even in flex fuel vehicles. After that, you lose me.

(1) Brazil makes ethanol from sugarcane, not soybeans. (2) What does this have to do with deforestation and where is the US currently losing forests, where we should subsidizing the planting of new ones? (3) What exactly did we screw ourselves over far far ago??? (4) Who here doesn't have an appreciation for nature and what does being a liberal have to do with treating the earth with respect? Check out the Blue Ribbon Coalition for a group that works to keep land open for use and enjoyment, without harming it.
 
G

G

Guest
Big difference between sugarcane ethanol and corn ethanol. Sugarcane is basically a weed in South America. It is way cheaper to produce and refine into ethanol than any process we are using here in the US. That is a big part of the picture. There is a lot of money to be made making and promoting ethanol here in the US. Nevermind that it is not as efficient as plain old gas and is hard on equipment not designed for it. Follow the MONEY. It is all about money. Always has been. As far as deforestation yes the rain forests are being dozed. What exactly are US citizens supposed to do about that? Realistically, nothing. It is also foolish to think about greenhouse gas emissions too much because we can't control what the rest of the world does with regards to that. We are just along for the ride. Once we are extinct Mother Nature will heal herself up in a relatively short time and get ready for the next batch of ' intelligent life.' On another note I still have 6 feet of snow in parts of my yard on April 21. Unreal.
 

SledTL

Active member
Huh? I have no idea what you are talking about. I agree ethanol isn't economically or environmentally efficient, even in flex fuel vehicles. After that, you lose me.

(1) Brazil makes ethanol from sugarcane, not soybeans. (2) What does this have to do with deforestation and where is the US currently losing forests, where we should subsidizing the planting of new ones? (3) What exactly did we screw ourselves over far far ago??? (4) Who here doesn't have an appreciation for nature and what does being a liberal have to do with treating the earth with respect? Check out the Blue Ribbon Coalition for a group that works to keep land open for use and enjoyment, without harming it.

Sorry I was in school jumping back and forth between focusing so that's why it is all over. I meant that us law makers think that because it works in Brazil, it will work for us. I don't know what I was talking about with the whole deforestation thing, but one of the bad things about the recent corn craze is that they have been ripping up the natural land to create more farmable land, while in turn releasing large amounts of CO2 that was stored within the plains. And the screwing over, is the fact that we have such a large dependence on oil that our everyday life will have to completely change. Sorry for the confusing writing....
 
(2) What does this have to do with deforestation and where is the US currently losing forests, where we should subsidizing the planting of new ones?

look outside. All of those small sections of trees being taken out by farmers are adding up. It's now taxed as tillable farm ground.
 

Hoosier

Well-known member
Sorry I was in school jumping back and forth between focusing so that's why it is all over. I meant that us law makers think that because it works in Brazil, it will work for us. I don't know what I was talking about with the whole deforestation thing, but one of the bad things about the recent corn craze is that they have been ripping up the natural land to create more farmable land, while in turn releasing large amounts of CO2 that was stored within the plains. And the screwing over, is the fact that we have such a large dependence on oil that our everyday life will have to completely change. Sorry for the confusing writing....

Got it. Makes more sense now
 

jonesin

Well-known member
Cellulosic biofuels that don't meet that threshold could be almost impossible to make and sell. Producers wouldn't earn the $1 per gallon subsidy they need to make these expensive fuels and still make a profit.

so the government, (TAXPAYER) needs to pay 1$/gal to the producer to make a profit on top of subsidizing and funding the plants and and and and
ethanol, wind, solar, battery cars.......

the govt needs to get back to what they are supposed to do like protect our borders and stay out of the private sector, if it is feasible and profitable it will be done!
 

Hoosier

Well-known member
Like Grub said, follow the money.

Ethanol is the only product I am aware of that achieves the trifecta of being (1) mandated by the government, (2) subsidized by the government and (3) protected by government through tariffs. Take away any leg off this stool and the US-made ethanol industry would be dead overnight.

We can be self-sufficient in energy (or at least only importing from Canada) if we had the political will-power to do so. We have large supplies of natural gas and coal, and oil production has been increasing also.
 

chunk06

Active member
Not to mention it is part of the scary increase in food cost. The typical crops farmers grow = scam! We need to get back to single ingredient food, like vegetables, grass fed beef, ect. Corn, soybeans, wheat are not good for you! And I agree, all the wide fence rows and woods coming down to grow that crap is sad.
 
G

G

Guest
Not to mention it is part of the scary increase in food cost. The typical crops farmers grow = scam! We need to get back to single ingredient food, like vegetables, grass fed beef, ect. Corn, soybeans, wheat are not good for you! And I agree, all the wide fence rows and woods coming down to grow that crap is sad.
The 'Western Diet' is what is responsible for many of our non-inherited health woes in this country. Fried foods. Ultra processed foods. All the MSG and coloring and the unpronounceable chemicals on the ingredient panels of nearly everything we buy. Diet soda. plastic cheese. Undigestable fats and oils. Worthless calories. Combine that with lack of exercise and an overall sedentary lifestyle and you get a bunch of fat, out of shape, mouth breathing, closed artery, short of breath bunch of slugs. We are there. When the 'Western Diet ' was introduced to a isolated south pacific island tribe that had previously lived on mostly fish and native vegetables it didn't take long for them to get fat and diabetic. But back to the topic. Everything about ethanol is bad.
 
Add genetically modified seeds and food to that list. Our bodies are not wired to digest GMO foods, Europe figured this out long time ago by allowing little or no preservatives in food and banning many GMO foods.

HH
 

chunk06

Active member
The 'Western Diet' is what is responsible for many of our non-inherited health woes in this country. Fried foods. Ultra processed foods. All the MSG and coloring and the unpronounceable chemicals on the ingredient panels of nearly everything we buy. Diet soda. plastic cheese. Undigestable fats and oils. Worthless calories. Combine that with lack of exercise and an overall sedentary lifestyle and you get a bunch of fat, out of shape, mouth breathing, closed artery, short of breath bunch of slugs. We are there. When the 'Western Diet ' was introduced to a isolated south pacific island tribe that had previously lived on mostly fish and native vegetables it didn't take long for them to get fat and diabetic. But back to the topic. Everything about ethanol is bad.

Add genetically modified seeds and food to that list. Our bodies are not wired to digest GMO foods, Europe figured this out long time ago by allowing little or no preservatives in food and banning many GMO foods.

HH

I cut out almost all gluten and processed food a year ago, and fast food ect almost 3 year ago, it's amazing how much better i feal when i stick to it! I have lived with a reoccuring rash and burning skin for 20 years, several dermatoligist diagnosed me with a form of dermatities. Well guess what happened when i changed my diet??? It pisses me off that i lived uncomfortable, lethargic, anxity all those years and it could have been different. I always was active/worked construction. Are bodys are not designed to be eating all the grains that we do, and don't even get me on GMO!
 

Hoosier

Well-known member
I cut out almost all gluten and processed food a year ago, and fast food ect almost 3 year ago, it's amazing how much better i feal when i stick to it! I have lived with a reoccuring rash and burning skin for 20 years, several dermatoligist diagnosed me with a form of dermatities. Well guess what happened when i changed my diet??? It pisses me off that i lived uncomfortable, lethargic, anxity all those years and it could have been different. I always was active/worked construction. Are bodys are not designed to be eating all the grains that we do, and don't even get me on GMO!

Where do get info on all of this? I am interested in learning more but not sure where to start?
 

chunk06

Active member
Where do get info on all of this? I am interested in learning more but not sure where to start?

I got my start from a family member that lived in Europe and married a girl from Europe (both vary health conscious) Most countries are disgusted by what is legal here and our diets. The thing that woke me up the most was buying the book Wheat Belly by Milwaukee cardiologist William Davis.... I hate books, but read 120 pages of it in one day because everything was coming together. I tried the diet (not completely, just cutting out bread and processed foods) and with in 3 days i could feal weight loss, more energy, lower blood pressure and the best was no skin rash or adult acne that i was fighting for years! lobbyist, agribuissnes are incredibly powerfull, alot of money is being made taking 5 cents worth of grain, and making processed food or bread and calling it healthy. A couple slices of WHOLE wheat bread (what they say is the healty choice) raises your blood sugar more than a candy bar!
 
F

fusion

Guest
Yes - everything about ethanol is bad, negative, no good.....except?

It is like "crack" to the corn lobbyists. And they try to sell this as somehow allowing us to purchase 10% less foreign oil, which is a total farce and misses the point entirely.
If we went after all the oil in the ground in the US we wouldn't need the Saudi's, Iraqi's, Russians, Venezuelans, Mexicans OR ethanol!
Garbage gas anyone? It's not in any of my sleds as they sit for the summer.
 
G

G

Guest
With increased US production of oil the argument of supporting the evil Middle East oil exporters that want to kill us is over. We don't need their oil anymore. We don't need to support the corn farmers or any other farmers anymore either. Land prices at all time highs - Ukraine wheat production in question - more mouths to feed everyday - the farmers will be just fine. The problem is that it turned into too big of a machine to just abandon. Cars have gone through extensive redesigns to allow the use of various grades of ethanol - none of which will ever deliver comparable gas mileage compared to plain old gas. The farmer are addicted to the additional revenue even though they could likely survive just fine without it. The greenie politicians love ethanol - it is going to save the world. But mostly, the general public is dumb and very easily manipulated. If the real facts about ethanol could be made public without a biased spin perhaps there would be a chance to get rid of it. However there are too many factions out there with skin in the game that would cloud the issue to confuse the easily confused. It is here to stay. Be happy we at least can still buy non-oxy 92 - admittedly expensive - but at least still available.
 
I like the way Iowa sells retail gasoline to the consumer. The last time I was in Dubuque, I pulled into a gas station to fill up and noticed a couple options for regular, 10% ethanol for $x.xx/gal. and ethanol free regular for $x.xx + $0.10/gal. That is how it should be done everywhere, let the consumer decide what type gasoline they want and and for what price. No need for the government to save us from ourselves again.

HH
 
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