Non Ethanol Gas (Boat)

[Tracker]

Yup. Just like talkin to the wall. I'm gonna go bang my head against it instead. Should get better results.

its 5 year old gas ya ID10T....I explained why you SHOULDNTNA HADNTA OUTTA used the crap....so tell us all why he should use it? you gonna help rebuild em? I am listening but odds are you wont be able to come up with some scientific facts of why....and odds are you aren't listening as to WHY you don't really want to use it....that and it aint yer boat if it blows.... ya hard...lets see what snake says eh? side bet?


PS....I hope we aint gotta dumb it down to yer level...we wont get anywhere.....LMAO

 

[snoluver1]

I give up Tracker. You win.

By the way, snake already said basically exactly what i said, if you could actually comprehend it!

 

[1flatlander2]

pull the water/fuel separators off and pour the fuel into a mason jar look for separation. when ever i have old fuel i'll fill my car up at the pump drive it for a 1/4 tank then dump 5 gallons of the old in. on my boat in the spring i will put 20 gallons of fresh fuel in the tank, run it till its almost empty and then fill it but i run 87 octane w/ethanol. i would replace the water/fuel separator get it on a hose run it for 20 min and see what it sound like.

 

[frnash]

… I talk like this to give FRNASH sumtin ta write aboots … hit me father[SUP]1[/SUP].....for I have pinned[SUP]2[/SUP] …

1. I ain't yo' daddy!
2. "… for you have "penned" (writ, typed, keyboarded)!

 

[Tracker]

I give up Tracker. You win.

By the way, snake already said basically exactly what i said, if you could actually comprehend it!

SNAKE...I gotta know....YOU....the boat guy....you said to run the gas in those engines? and don't give up so easily snow puppy....you came out swinging for tha fence....what happened there SNOWPUFFER? side bet still? side bet on snake saying run that crap in those nice engines? I don't think so there SNOWBLOWER....get a pair of these so yas can see clearly

 

[Cirrus_Driver]

It may not be the fancy glasses that are needed, it could be a reading comprehension course or two? I was going to point out, or quote, what Snake actually said....but the ensuing train wreck will be much more captivating.

 

[snake]

you guys are def. entertaining! If i had any doubt the fuel would get replaced. I always explain to the customer what could potentially happen and let them make the final call. my boat=drain it and go thru carbs,replace filters. pee foam is for lawn mowers

 

[snoluver1]

you guys are def. entertaining! If i had any doubt the fuel would get replaced. I always explain to the customer what could potentially happen and let them make the final call. my boat=drain it and go thru carbs,replace filters. pee foam is for lawn mowers

And what could potentially happen, AFTER YOU INSPECT THE FUEL AND GIVE IT THE OK? Which would take literally all of 30 SECONDS to say yay or nay. Please don't tell me particals, knocking and seizure. I will seriously lose my mind!

 

[snake]

And what could potentially happen, AFTER YOU INSPECT THE FUEL AND GIVE IT THE OK? Which would take literally all of 30 SECONDS to say yay or nay. Please don't tell me particals, knocking and seizure. I will seriously lose my mind!

how can one inspect octane levels,esp in 30 seconds?? I know for a fact that knocking can happen and it wasnt from some little piston god with a hammer!!! if I took the carbs apart and they were clean( no varnish) then I would entertain the thought of letting the customer decide to run the fuel after it is topped off with fresh premium non eth. here's a question for any..... I would think we all agree that the longer fuel sits it loses octane, correct?? so let's pick a number that 5 year old fuel is now 75 octane. now top off tanks with premium....now whats your octane?? I have no idea, I'm not a chemist or have the equipment to test, so I like to play it safe. I'm not here to argue with anyone at all,just discuss. and I will never claim I know everything. if it's your boat you can do whatever you decide,but if one of my customers says he doesnt want to chance it then it gets pumped and my butt is covered

 

[snoluver1]

I'm saying you can take a fuel sample in 30 seconds to inspect for color, smell and water. So we agree, if the fuel is clean, the only adverse effects from low octane fuel would be detonation, correct? Would said detonation result in immediate catastrophic engine failure? In my opinion a trained ear should be able to tell if the engine is detonating before ever even leaving the dock. A couple quick shots of throttle should reveal the tell tale ping.


The only point I have tried to make in this entire thread, is that its worth the 30 seconds it takes to pull a sample, before having to deal with 100 gallons of hazardous waste. Your not dumping that in the weeds out in the back 40. (At least I hope not, lol)

 

[srt20]

I know what you are saying snoluver1, and Im not saying I disagree with you. But most people don't have that ear. And being a tech, Im sure you know that most people run their engines into the ground, and then give it to you saying "it just shut off suddenly" when in reality the temp light has been on for the last 30 mins and the valves look like pretzels stuck in the guides.

The owner obviously doesn't know anything or he wouldn't have asked the OP for help. And the OP probably isn't super knowledgable either if he is asking on here.

So would you agree the "safest" advice for this particular situation, is to just get rid of the fuel?

I myself would top it off with AV gas. Probably a lot cheaper than marina 91 anyway, and much better octane. But then Im sure someone would complain about the low lead levels and water....

 

[snoluver1]

I know what you are saying snoluver1, and Im not saying I disagree with you. But most people don't have that ear. And being a tech, Im sure you know that most people run their engines into the ground, and then give it to you saying "it just shut off suddenly" when in reality the temp light has been on for the last 30 mins and the valves look like pretzels stuck in the guides.

The owner obviously doesn't know anything or he wouldn't have asked the OP for help. And the OP probably isn't super knowledgable either if he is asking on here.

So would you agree the "safest" advice for this particular situation, is to just get rid of the fuel?

I myself would top it off with AV gas. Probably a lot cheaper than marina 91 anyway, and much better octane. But then Im sure someone would complain about the low lead levels and water....

Agreed. 100%

Cripes....I think I need a beer and a smoke after this thread!

 

[towtruck]

That's kinda what I was thinking. This will be the 17th summer for our boat on the water and the tank has never been drained. Meaning, in theory there's a small amount of the original gas still sloshing around in there. Right? I usually run it low but it always has some gas in the tank through the winter months. I fill it up in the spring and she fires right up. That being said, small carbureted engines like blowers, saws, and snowmobiles are a whole other matter.

So here's my 2 cents. Syphon off a gallon or two and give it the smell test. If it passes that I would put a small amount into a small 4 stroke engine like a mower or tiller and see if it runs. If it does run I would top off the boat with fresh gas and run it to get it well mixed. If the small engine won't run with the old gas then you'll have to go to plan B and dispose of it.

Lastly, be careful. Portable electric pumps, temporary clips on jumpers, etc. are hazardous around gasoline, new or old. Take your time and think it through.

if your your going to top off the tank don't do it at the marina- it might be last years gas! then you got old on old (like at my house!)

 

[snobuilder]

if your your going to top off the tank don't do it at the marina- it might be last years gas! then you got old on old (like at my house!)

That's the main problem here....the boat is in harbor and it's either pump and carry out 100 gallons or ....if not purchased there....carry in 100 gallons to fill tank.

 

[frnash]

And what could potentially happen, AFTER YOU INSPECT THE FUEL AND GIVE IT THE OK? Which would take literally all of 30 SECONDS to say yay or nay. Please don't tell me particals, knocking and seizure. I will seriously lose my mind!

Is that "present particals" or "past particals"?, er… Participles? … "Part-tickles"? "Party gals"? "Disciples"?

Oh, "particles"? Never mind.
[Me confused, English is sooo difficult! ]

 

[snoluver1]

Is that "present particals" or "past particals"?, er… Participles? … "Part-tickles"? "Party gals"? "Disciples"?

Oh, "particles"? Never mind.
[Me confused, English is sooo difficult! ]

The English language makes less sense than a lot in this thread. While we're at it, lets throw the Imperial measurement system in there also! What's so wrong about spelling words the way they sound, or measurements in groups of ten?

 

[sweeperguy]

The English language makes less sense than a lot in this thread. While we're at it, lets throw the Imperial measurement system in there also! What's so wrong about spelling words the way they sound, or measurements in groups of ten?

I really like how words are spelled the same. But pronounced different, and have completely different meanings.
Like: He shed a tear. VS a tear in his pants. Or Lead paint. VS Lead a horse to water.
OR pronunciation the same, spelled different with different meanings PEAR: a fruit VS. PAIR: a couple
Or worse yet, spelled and same pronunciation and different meanings
He shot his arrow with a bow. VS. He tied a bow with ribbon.
This post could go on and on about Homonyms,Homophones, Homographs, and Heteronyms
ENGLISH IS A P.I.T.A. No wonder english is a dying language.

 

[frnash]

… I myself would top it off with AV gas. …

Avgas? Any preference? (This thread isn't long enough! )

Grade	Color	Lead (g/L)	Additives	Uses	Availability
80/87 ("avgas 80")	red	0.14	TEL	It was used in engines with low compression ratio.	Phased out in the late 20th century. Its availability is very limited.
82UL	purple	0	ASTM D6227; similar to automobile gasoline but without automotive additives	(Note #1)
85UL	none	0	oxygenate-free	(Note #2)
91/96	brown	almost negligible	TEL	Made particularly for military use.
91/96UL	none	0	ethanol-free, antioxidant and antistatic additives; ASTM D7547	(Note #3)	(Note #4)
B91/115	green	1.60	TEL; see standard GOST 1012-72.	(Note #5)	(Note #6)
100LL	blue	0.56	TEL As of January 2010, 100LL has 1.2 to 2 grams TEL per US gallon.	Most commonly used aviation gasoline.	Pretty much worldwide
100/130	green	1.12	TEL	Mostly replaced by 100LL.	(Note #7)
G100UL	none	0	aromatic compounds such as xylene or mesitylene	Composed primarily of aviation alkylate (same as used for 100LL).	As of August 2013, limited quantities are produced for testing.
100SF	none	0	mesitylene	Swift Fuels LLC blend of 83% mesitylene, 17% isopentane	Limited quantities are produced for testing.
115/145 ("avgas 115")	purple	1.29	TEL	Originally used as primary fuel for the largest, boost-supercharged radial engines needing this fuel's anti-detonation properties.	Limited batches are produced for special events such as unlimited air races.

<tbody>
</tbody>

Note #1:
As of 2008, 82UL is not being produced and no refiner has announced plans to put it into production.

Note #2:
Used to power piston-engine ultralight aircraft.
Motor Octane Number min 85. Research Octane Number min 95.

Note #3:
In 1991, Hjelmco Oil introduced unleaded avgas 91/96UL (also meeting leaded grade 91/98 standard ASTM D910 with the exception of transparent color) and no lead in Sweden. Engine manufacturers Teledyne Continental Motors, Textron Lycoming, Rotax, and radial engine manufacturer Kalisz have cleared the Hjelmco avgas 91/96UL which in practice means that the fuel can be used in more than 90% of the piston aircraft fleet worldwide. May be used in Rotax engines, and Lycoming engines per SI1070R.

Note #4:
In November 2010, the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) based on about 20 years of trouble-free operations with unleaded avgas 91/96UL produced by Hjelmco Oil cleared this fuel for all aircraft where the aircraft engine manufacturer has approved this fuel.

Note #5:
Specially formulated for Shvetsov ASh-62 and Ivchenko AI-14 – nine-cylinder, air-cooled, radial aircraft engines.

Note #6:
The Commonwealth of Independent States, produced exclusively by OBR PR.

Note #7:
As of August 2013, Australia, New Zealand, Chile, and the states of Hawaii and Utah in the United States.

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[frnash]

The English language makes less sense than a lot in this thread. … What's so wrong about spelling words the way they sound, or measurements in groups of ten?

I really like how words are spelled the same. But pronounced different, and have completely different meanings.
Like: He shed a tear. VS a tear in his pants. Or Lead paint. VS Lead a horse to water.
Or worse yet, spelled and same pronunciation and different meanings
He shot his arrow with a bow. VS. He tied a bow with ribbon.
then it can also be spelled the same with different pronunciation and meanings.
The bow of a boat is the front. VS Can you please bow when your done performing.
ENGLISH IS A P.I.T.A. No wonder english is a dying language.

What you both say is very true, and the main reason for that is that English has inherited from so many other languages, each with its own spelling and pronunciations rules.
[Hеll, Finnish spelling and pronunciation is "easier" than English — 'cuz it's consistent! (Finnish grammar, however with 17 cases, is somethin' else entirely!)]

The very best answer to that and the key to understanding all that was/is found a course in Grammar and Diction I took at MTU ca. 1959.
The outstanding textbook used: (click →) "Latin and Greek in Current Use". That title is a bit misleading; it's all about etymology: the study of the sources and development of words (and "how they got that way"). Learning how to recognize the origin of a word and all that comes from that is key to all of that.

Note this five-star Amazon user review. (I could not have said it better!):

By P. F. Brennanon June 5, 2014

"I received a copy of this book in 1953 - when I graduated from grammar school.
Through the rest of my education and my entire professional life, it helped me develop a vocabulary that enhanced my ability to understand what I was being taught; and made it possible for me to communicate my knowledge with precision and color.
I have never forgotten the lessons I learned from this volume, and as a grandparent and mentor today, I was delighted to discover that after 60 years it is as exciting and useful as when I first encountered it."

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Comment by Richard Signore (2 years ago)

"I find it interesting that you received a copy of this book when graduating grammar school! I received my copy in college, specifically in a Graduate course entitled "The Growth and Structure of the English Language". Bravo for the person or school that gave you this book. I still peruse it and was very surprised that a used copy in good condition is valued over $500! I have no intentions of selling mine but the price attests to the quality of the book."

 

[snoluver1]

with the exception of transparent colour

It wasn't hard enough Frank? Now ya gotta go thowin' in udder types of English?