POLL. In marginal snow areas, when will you buy your WIDNR trail permit?

[Cirrus_Driver]

Let's be real here, come on.....CAPSTEP was all about trail funding, and very little to do with active trail maintenance. Follow the money, as always.
If I were able to, I would help with trails, and I will in a couple years, WHEN I LIVE where I ride. My guess is 90% of riders are in the same situation.

 

[whitedust]

Let's be real here, come on.....CAPSTEP was all about trail funding, and very little to do with active trail maintenance. Follow the money, as always.
If I were able to, I would help with trails, and I will in a couple years, WHEN I LIVE where I ride. My guess is 90% of riders are in the same situation.

Yep agree the increase in volunteers will phase out some clubs very much set in their procedures and who does what don't need help want same old same old nothing new and new members move on to other things that take priority in their lives. Drinks and parties do help to some extent to get membership turn out but way beyond my lifestyle I'm mostly about the club business being informed and help if in my wheelhouse.

 

[ddhanna]

If I were able to, I would help with trails, and I will in a couple years, WHEN I LIVE where I ride. My guess is 90% of riders are in the same situation.

Exactly, been this way since day 1 and will continue well into the future. People will will volunteer when they have time and opportunity. And... it does no good for anybody to pressure people into giving beyond their comfort level.

 

[euphoric1]

Question?..... not a complaint..... with the new trail passes and moneys raised by both passes and registrations by the state, The money that is given to the clubs ear marked for trail maintenance, is it monitored somehow to guarantee that the money is being used for such, and if they don't use it do they lose it for next year or is the club able to retain the money and roll it over for the next season? because obviously for 2/3 of the state the money spent on trail maintenance the lase several years should have been minimal as far as grooming costs go. I understand that there is trail maintenance that needs top be done in some areas before the snow falls as well. with exception to the upper 1/3 of the state there should be a surplus of moneys and curious as what happens to it? I have said it on another post I'm sure to some I fall under the complainer labeling but I haven't purchased a trail pass because I only ride in the U.P. for one week out of the winter, that is pretty much the extent of my sledding so I purchase a Michigan trail pass every year, and I support a club up there as well for this reason. I guess my question is since this trail pass has been instated the winters have been very marginal and what happens to all the surplus funds?

 

[dothedoo]

Question?..... not a complaint..... with the new trail passes and moneys raised by both passes and registrations by the state, The money that is given to the clubs ear marked for trail maintenance, is it monitored somehow to guarantee that the money is being used for such, and if they don't use it do they lose it for next year or is the club able to retain the money and roll it over for the next season? because obviously for 2/3 of the state the money spent on trail maintenance the lase several years should have been minimal as far as grooming costs go. I understand that there is trail maintenance that needs top be done in some areas before the snow falls as well. with exception to the upper 1/3 of the state there should be a surplus of moneys and curious as what happens to it? I have said it on another post I'm sure to some I fall under the complainer labeling but I haven't purchased a trail pass because I only ride in the U.P. for one week out of the winter, that is pretty much the extent of my sledding so I purchase a Michigan trail pass every year, and I support a club up there as well for this reason. I guess my question is since this trail pass has been instated the winters have been very marginal and what happens to all the surplus funds?

I'm not an expert, but the clubs are "reimbursed" per a rate schedule for various trail maintenance activities. They aren't just given money.

Clubs keep a log of hours spent, equipment used, etc. and then submit those logs for payment. There is a specific rate schedule for each task and type of equipment used. If you use a Gator to mark trails, maybe that gets paid at $25/hour. Grooming, depending on type of tractor, is maybe $90/hour.

So, a club couldn't get money for doing nothing.

 

[euphoric1]

thanks dothedoo, I wasn't quite sure how that worked, however I would think there still should be a surplus of moneys gathered by trail passes if that was indeed the sole purpose of the trail passes, was just curious how that worked

 

[ddhanna]

Question?..... not a complaint..... with the new trail passes and moneys raised by both passes and registrations by the state, The money that is given to the clubs ear marked for trail maintenance, is it monitored somehow to guarantee that the money is being used for such, and if they don't use it do they lose it for next year or is the club able to retain the money and roll it over for the next season? because obviously for 2/3 of the state the money spent on trail maintenance the lase several years should have been minimal as far as grooming costs go. I understand that there is trail maintenance that needs top be done in some areas before the snow falls as well. with exception to the upper 1/3 of the state there should be a surplus of moneys and curious as what happens to it? I have said it on another post I'm sure to some I fall under the complainer labeling but I haven't purchased a trail pass because I only ride in the U.P. for one week out of the winter, that is pretty much the extent of my sledding so I purchase a Michigan trail pass every year, and I support a club up there as well for this reason. I guess my question is since this trail pass has been instated the winters have been very marginal and what happens to all the surplus funds?

Money is not "given" to clubs. Clubs are reimbursed from a segregated fund for actual expenses submitted (and audited after the season). Money left (if any) in the segregated fund MAY be distributed via a priority system to fund things like bridge rehab / construction, trail rehab or new trail development. The Snowmobile Recreational Council (SRC) makes this decision. Any money remaining in the segregated fund is carried to the next year. By law, the fund can not be "raided" and moved to other state funding. Prior to this new system of funding, there was only enough money to pay about 80% (on average) of the submitted maintenance expenses. Since we have had the new system, maintenance has been paid 100% and many , but not all new projects have been approved for funding. It would not surprise me to see funding approved for new trails (lowest priority) in the near future. This would greatly benefit those clubs who are maintaining club trails (non-funded) on their own dime. So far, I would call this new system a financial success.

Treasurer - Three Lakes Trails

 

[whitedust]

Exactly, been this way since day 1 and will continue well into the future. People will will volunteer when they have time and opportunity. And... it does no good for anybody to pressure people into giving beyond their comfort level.

Very intelligent way to manage a snowmobile club.

 

[old abe]

It used to be far more simpler system to use. Why didn't they just correct the funding issues, and the priorities of them??????????

 

[snobuilder]

Money is not "given" to clubs. Clubs are reimbursed from a segregated fund for actual expenses submitted (and audited after the season). Money left (if any) in the segregated fund MAY be distributed via a priority system to fund things like bridge rehab / construction, trail rehab or new trail development. The Snowmobile Recreational Council (SRC) makes this decision. Any money remaining in the segregated fund is carried to the next year. By law, the fund can not be "raided" and moved to other state funding. Prior to this new system of funding, there was only enough money to pay about 80% (on average) of the submitted maintenance expenses. Since we have had the new system, maintenance has been paid 100% and many , but not all new projects have been approved for funding. It would not surprise me to see funding approved for new trails (lowest priority) in the near future. This would greatly benefit those clubs who are maintaining club trails (non-funded) on their own dime. So far, I would call this new system a financial success.

Treasurer - Three Lakes Trails

I'm not questioning any of this. I believe everything you stated about reimbursement is correct and what you stated about 100% funding is what you have been told, as our club was told.

Our club membership has nearly doubled under this new system.
I have to assume that membership numbers are way up throughout the state as well due to the TP discount.
The $25 club membership gets divided up and $10 goes to the AWSC, $4 to the County Snow Alliance and $11 stays with the club.
All club members get the $10 TP vs. the $30 res. or $50 non res. TP.
Becoming a club member means more money goes to the AWSC and County Alliances and less goes directly into the segregated trail fund to help with all of those expenditures you mentioned.
I believe 95% of the new members are joining for the discount....and also believe they ALL want to fund the system and have excellent trails as well. I would say to them, if you don't plan on volunteering, please buy the full price DNR pass for a greater overall effect on the trails.

 

[old abe]

I'm not questioning any of this. I believe everything you stated about reimbursement is correct and what you stated about 100% funding is what you have been told, as our club was told.

Our club membership has nearly doubled under this new system.
I have to assume that membership numbers are way up throughout the state as well due to the TP discount.
The $25 club membership gets divided up and $10 goes to the AWSC, $4 to the County Snow Alliance and $11 stays with the club.
All club members get the $10 TP vs. the $30 res. or $50 non res. TP.
Becoming a club member means more money goes to the AWSC and County Alliances and less goes directly into the segregated trail fund to help with all of those expenditures you mentioned.
I believe 95% of the new members are joining for the discount....and also believe they ALL want to fund the system and have excellent trails as well. I would say to them, if you don't plan on volunteering, please buy the full price DNR pass for a greater overall effect on the trails.

Whooooeee??? UNreal??? That's the way government works it seems. SAD!!! Just to have more meetings/conventions. I'll buy the 50 buck nonresident pass now that I know this.

 

[ddhanna]

I'm not questioning any of this. I believe everything you stated about reimbursement is correct and what you stated about 100% funding is what you have been told, as our club was told.

Our club membership has nearly doubled under this new system.
I have to assume that membership numbers are way up throughout the state as well due to the TP discount.
The $25 club membership gets divided up and $10 goes to the AWSC, $4 to the County Snow Alliance and $11 stays with the club.
All club members get the $10 TP vs. the $30 res. or $50 non res. TP.
Becoming a club member means more money goes to the AWSC and County Alliances and less goes directly into the segregated trail fund to help with all of those expenditures you mentioned.
I believe 95% of the new members are joining for the discount....and also believe they ALL want to fund the system and have excellent trails as well. I would say to them, if you don't plan on volunteering, please buy the full price DNR pass for a greater overall effect on the trails.

The big thing is that club membership money stays local and is incremental to that paid to you for trail maintenance. Maximum payment to a club from the segregated fund for maintenance is $900 per mile. We exceed that with club membership money. For this reason, I encourage club membership regardless of volunteer status.

BTW, we have a county alliance but do not pay it a portion of memberships. Counties are at liberty to administer as they please.

 

[renegade]

I'm not questioning any of this. I believe everything you stated about reimbursement is correct and what you stated about 100% funding is what you have been told, as our club was told.

Our club membership has nearly doubled under this new system.
I have to assume that membership numbers are way up throughout the state as well due to the TP discount.
The $25 club membership gets divided up and $10 goes to the AWSC, $4 to the County Snow Alliance and $11 stays with the club.
All club members get the $10 TP vs. the $30 res. or $50 non res. TP.
Becoming a club member means more money goes to the AWSC and County Alliances and less goes directly into the segregated trail fund to help with all of those expenditures you mentioned.
I believe 95% of the new members are joining for the discount....and also believe they ALL want to fund the system and have excellent trails as well. I would say to them, if you don't plan on volunteering, please buy the full price DNR pass for a greater overall effect on the trails.

Our club membership is up also. And so is the help in taking care of the trails. I believe increased club membership would never have a lessor effect on the trails as opposed to someone who just buys a $30 permit. It will get spent on trails anyway one way or the other. If someone is truly worried that money going to the clubs and some to the AWSC is wasted then don't join and just buy a permit. We get to choose, and thats a positive in my opinion.

 

[snobuilder]

we need snow

 

[snobuilder]

let it snow

 

[frnash]

… I believe increased club membership would never have a lessor [sic] effect on the trails as opposed to someone who just buys a $30 permit. …

Lessor/lessee … Wisconsin clubs lease their trails? ( )