riding trails to exploration zones

[tsg]

"Think of it this way, there was once a guy that said the same thing about snowboards on the ski hill."

Not even remotely the same scenario or potential outcome, and it never will be. Ski hills and ski areas are more defined and confined, and with far more information available defining and outlying perimeters and restricted areas. Yes off property areas are violated and abused, but far less then with sleds. And, most of these ski areas are privately owned, unlike the majority of off track areas where we as snowmobiler's want to ride.

I have ridden off trail for years, and mostly in the UP. With so many "off Trail" riders these days, secret spots and honey holes are dwindling, and abuse is becoming ever more rampant. What is worse is that despite what is communicated on this site, in these threads, etc.... there is a vast majority that do not really care about trespassing, consequences, future consequences, etc........ They want a good day in the powder. Plus, all of us who keep the areas to "themselves" are feeding this problem, thus making people search out on their own, which can be difficult, or for many, not a viable or fun option, which has created more problems in greater numbers now. So, a double edge sword.

Tough call for all involved in snowmobiling, but in reality the access people (and government) granted for trails was that, access for trails, and for trails to connect to others, thus creating a network. Debatable whether this access was granted with the intentions to help connect off trail areas to off trail areas. Doubtful.

So, groomed trails are getting more abused and beat up by long track sleds using these to access their off trail play areas. Perfectly legal, and cause of trail abuse and rapid deterioration are equally a result of the deeper lug tracks and those who insist on riding those deep lug machines agressively. Again, a double edge sword.

Just facts that the dynamics of snowmobiling are changing, and no one is confident that anything can be done about it, from a trail, club, landowner or government perspective.

I personally just took possession of my first short track sled (129 850X) in 17 years, and look forward to trail riding again. That's just me, been there, done that, and time to go back to my roots.

 

[1fujifilm]

"Think of it this way, there was once a guy that said the same thing about snowboards on the ski hill."


As a kid skiing the Tahoe area in the late 70's I remember that about half of the ski resorts there banned boards all-together. Alpine-Meadows was one of them, I think it was two-fold; safety getting on and off chair lifts (Boarders get on with one cheek and infringe a bit on the person next to them and getting off is not "normal" either) and most Boarders were young and "renegade" like (pioneers, really) and didnt fit the sophisticated image skiing portrayed.

What keeps me from buying a long-track and joining the off-trail club? I see myself hitting hidden objects and costing me repair money.

Bear

 

[slowsi00]

This thread wasn’t for honey holes.


This thread was for publicly known and easily accessible areas.


Like Kingston plains and the woods surrounding it. Go to intersection of 8 and 88 then head north east. Right next to a parking lot. Go get lost, go hit a stump , go run out of gas... have a blast while doing it. Will I see other tracks yes. Will I care, no. Will I be legally enjoying off trail... yes.

The forest in between pressure isle and lake gobebic another great example.... take a right into a forest road from the trail and go explore.

 

[pe4me]

In short, posting directions to localized hot zones serves only to add attendance to a finite snowbelt landmass. If your goal is to advertise to untold numbers of strangers and invite anyone to your favorite area, then social media is a good way to do that knowingly or ignorantly. I am suggesting that if one must give out information, consider typing it in an email and sharing it with your family or friends who are like minded. Give out numbers of agencies, legislation, site maps and other general sources that's great, but perhaps refrain from making it easy for people to clutter up your backdrop in the great white north. We are all free to publicize our knowledge or directions but just know, in the end, it only leads to more traffic.

Most would probably consider the Kingston Plains a honey hole type place. It wasn't as public not too long ago.

My take on the threads for publicly known and easy accessible areas is I sure hope no one comes on and gives up my X, Y and Z with directions. If its public and easy then everyone knows right? Do we need to make it more public?
For example, people will see KP in this post that had no idea what or where that is, now they have specifics which is basically an open invite. Fine. Change is inevitable, I get that, however with exposure of places that get media blasted you can bet they will end up like the KP. More tracks, more effort spent to find the powder, more gas burned to find the perfect booter that isn't hammered etc etc.

Do I get pissed every time I go to the "spot" and see other riders? Of course not, but I dont jump for joy either. Do I go and advertise the good spots with free directions on an open forum? Nope, and I am just suggesting others consider their riding areas before they decide to post it up for everyone. Does it suck to have a place that was once less traveled, even untracked 10 years ago, now be all whored out by noon on Saturday? Yeah, that's major drag IMHO.

In my fairy tale world, anyone on the WWW starting or replying to an exploration zone type thread (which could be code for awesome off trail opportunity), which is perfectly fine, would sound more general than specific, would offer more mum responses than exact locations. Crickets are even better. Send a PM instead of a post?

I am certainly guilty of selfishness on this long winded response and again, sorry, but man would I prefer not to deal with MORE people in the backyard. Perhaps its starts with guys crafting responses to exploration zone threads with honest generic advice on how to seek them out on their own, with hopes of delaying more people from coming to YOUR favorite riding area.

Again nothing personal, I definitely do not blame anyone who is in search of new and awesome riding areas, I am proposing we dont make it so easy on them

Snowboards share the exact same terrain as skiers, not quite the same. Boarders were not continually pushing for access to new off-piste areas, IMHO, a big difference. Snow bikes on snowmobile trails might be a more similar analogy. But thats another thread.

 

[Tracker]

a bare gate with no paint or markings means there is a camera nearby so turn around....a yellow gate means go around it slowly and proceed with caution .....and a red gate means "WELCOME ALL" have at it...and the ones that leave tiger traps and huge boulders by the gate....those mean "DO YA FEEL LUCKY"....enjoy

 

[rp7x]

The ones that leave a huge burm are the ones I launch over

 

[xcr440]

It goes the same for good riding conditions on trails - just like I put on 200 miles on a great trail in MN this weekend, but hey, everyone go to the UP and have at it!! LOL

 

[pe4me]

Humor and sarcasm work as well.
Complete nonsense replies are also good for a laugh.

 

[rp7x]

Hey I always jump the big burms

 

[xcr440]

And I really did put on 200 miles in MN last weekend

 

[illinoistim]

A quick google search of "off trail riding in the upper peninsula" should find you more than enough links.

 

[eagle1]

I just follow guys with garden tools in their backpacks.........or short guys named Skylar, he knows all the honey holes.

 

[snowchief]

And I really did put on 200 miles in MN last weekend View attachment 59608

Is that the sakatah trail?

 

[slowsi00]

In short, posting directions to localized hot zones serves only to add attendance to a finite snowbelt landmass. If your goal is to advertise to untold numbers of strangers and invite anyone to your favorite area, then social media is a good way to do that knowingly or ignorantly. I am suggesting that if one must give out information, consider typing it in an email and sharing it with your family or friends who are like minded. Give out numbers of agencies, legislation, site maps and other general sources that's great, but perhaps refrain from making it easy for people to clutter up your backdrop in the great white north. We are all free to publicize our knowledge or directions but just know, in the end, it only leads to more traffic.

Most would probably consider the Kingston Plains a honey hole type place. It wasn't as public not too long ago.

My take on the threads for publicly known and easy accessible areas is I sure hope no one comes on and gives up my X, Y and Z with directions. If its public and easy then everyone knows right? Do we need to make it more public?
For example, people will see KP in this post that had no idea what or where that is, now they have specifics which is basically an open invite. Fine. Change is inevitable, I get that, however with exposure of places that get media blasted you can bet they will end up like the KP. More tracks, more effort spent to find the powder, more gas burned to find the perfect booter that isn't hammered etc etc.

Do I get pissed every time I go to the "spot" and see other riders? Of course not, but I dont jump for joy either. Do I go and advertise the good spots with free directions on an open forum? Nope, and I am just suggesting others consider their riding areas before they decide to post it up for everyone. Does it suck to have a place that was once less traveled, even untracked 10 years ago, now be all whored out by noon on Saturday? Yeah, that's major drag IMHO.

In my fairy tale world, anyone on the WWW starting or replying to an exploration zone type thread (which could be code for awesome off trail opportunity), which is perfectly fine, would sound more general than specific, would offer more mum responses than exact locations. Crickets are even better. Send a PM instead of a post?

I am certainly guilty of selfishness on this long winded response and again, sorry, but man would I prefer not to deal with MORE people in the backyard. Perhaps its starts with guys crafting responses to exploration zone threads with honest generic advice on how to seek them out on their own, with hopes of delaying more people from coming to YOUR favorite riding area.

Again nothing personal, I definitely do not blame anyone who is in search of new and awesome riding areas, I am proposing we dont make it so easy on them

Snowboards share the exact same terrain as skiers, not quite the same. Boarders were not continually pushing for access to new off-piste areas, IMHO, a big difference. Snow bikes on snowmobile trails might be a more similar analogy. But thats another thread.

70% of people who trail ride can’t/won’t leave the trail. They just don’t have the ability. If they do leave the trail and get heavy stuck and go out unprepared that will be the last off trail mission they try.

Munising outed KP many years ago by putting it on the trail map and having a whole off trail section dedicated on their website. even had a great video produced below.

 

[pe4me]

Road and raced in the UP for years, never really saw or heard of KP until I was introduced to it by friends. I never saw that video but I have heard kp referenced in many promotions since 2000. Great. It works for their economy and I am truly happy for the smalll businesses it helps.
Fishing on the flowage is Stiles, Wi was like going to Canada, awesome fishing and hardly anyone. Brian Noble does a single TV show and it turned into shanty town USA in basically a winter. Point is someone couldn’t resist and had to shout out to the media. Now it sucks compared to what it was before. DNR all over, crap all over the ice and fishing isn’t as good. Selfishly, I wish I could take my boy there and slay them like we used to.
70% sounds like a good guesstimate, all I’m saying is let’s keep that number high, cut out the exposure where possible and PM me, I would be happy to meet people and ride.

 

[xcr440]

Is that the sakatah trail?

You were the one guy I figured would know - did you get out last weekend??

 

[slowsi00]

Road and raced in the UP for years, never really saw or heard of KP until I was introduced to it by friends. I never saw that video but I have heard kp referenced in many promotions since 2000. Great. It works for their economy and I am truly happy for the smalll businesses it helps.
Fishing on the flowage is Stiles, Wi was like going to Canada, awesome fishing and hardly anyone. Brian Noble does a single TV show and it turned into shanty town USA in basically a winter. Point is someone couldn’t resist and had to shout out to the media. Now it sucks compared to what it was before. DNR all over, crap all over the ice and fishing isn’t as good. Selfishly, I wish I could take my boy there and slay them like we used to.
70% sounds like a good guesstimate, all I’m saying is let’s keep that number high, cut out the exposure where possible and PM me, I would be happy to meet people and ride.

a thread on johndee that is very active will have 3000 views... this one is at 2100ish
a tv show syndicated nationwide on cable will have hundreds of thousands of viewers.

I understand the want to cut the exposure, pm me and lets go ride.

 

[pe4me]

LOL Brian Noble wishes It was a local Green Bay News segment, but still thousands.

In other news, Old Man Winter needs to get in Mother Nature's honey hole or there will be no hot spots for anyone-

 

[snowchief]

You were the one guy I figured would know - did you get out last weekend??

I feel embarrassed that I didn't now, I haven't got out besides beboppin around the with my five year old boy on his 120 and I've been following him with the 97 sport, we had 41 kids that took the snowmobile safety class on Saturday so that ate up most the day. How was the trail? I seen few sleds out, you were about a mile from my place on the trail lol

 

[xcr440]

I feel embarrassed that I didn't now, I haven't got out besides beboppin around the with my five year old boy on his 120 and I've been following him with the 97 sport, we had 41 kids that took the snowmobile safety class on Saturday so that ate up most the day. How was the trail? I seen few sleds out, you were about a mile from my place on the trail lol

Well that pic I posted showed how good it was - from Faribault all the way to Mankato. There was maybe 100 total yards (besides the actual road crossings) that didn't look like that the whole way. So after I put the big grin on my face Saturday, I had decided before I was heading back up I-35 I was going to do it again Sunday. It was set up so firm on Sunday, I had to drop the scratchers to keep the temp below 135. It was a good first ride, and really got the itch scratched.

I'm sure it doesn't look like that anymore, and would be surprised if anyone was attempting to ride it this weekend.