Roof shoveling

G

groomerdriver

New member
snobuilder said:
the roof truss design criteria will disrtibute the loads to the proper places, usually the outside walls or beam trusses and then down through those walls to the foundation.

my concern beyond slipping to injury would be that in most areas new construction allows 1/2" or even 7/16 OSB is roof rated to 24OC as roof sheathing, now add your body weight to an already heavy snow load between the trusses and whallah....you could end up in the living room with your boots on!

Now old consruction poses even greater danger due to age and lax or no codes or rated lumber back in the day and then add 2 or sometimes 3 layers a roofing material and you are cruising for problems.
I've stripped old roofs with 6" knots falling out of the random width roof sheathing boards and those are on sitting on 2x4 rafters!!!.
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Our house is 5 years old. 2X6 construction. L-shaped house (garage facing front) with Vee roofs. Built by one of the best builders in the area. Should I be concerned about the amount of snow up there?

Was going to ask: what is the best composition for a shovel to use on a shingle roof?
 
T

timo

Well-known member
you'll never convice me that my 190 lb body is gonna be the difference from my roof collapsing into my living room if get up on it and rake it

i'd like to see some stats of people falling into their living rooms vs a roof collapsing because you let 4 feet of snow accumulate on it.





snobuilder said:
the roof truss design criteria will disrtibute the loads to the proper places, usually the outside walls or beam trusses and then down through those walls to the foundation.

my concern beyond slipping to injury would be that in most areas new construction allows 1/2" or even 7/16 OSB is roof rated to 24OC as roof sheathing, now add your body weight to an already heavy snow load between the trusses and whallah....you could end up in the living room with your boots on!

Now old consruction poses even greater danger due to age and lax or no codes or rated lumber back in the day and then add 2 or sometimes 3 layers a roofing material and you are cruising for problems.
I've stripped old roofs with 6" knots falling out of the random width roof sheathing boards and those are on sitting on 2x4 rafters!!!.
Click to expand...
 
X

xcr440

Well-known member
I don't think it matters if your roof could hold your 1-Ton Deisel truck.

When it starts to melt, and refreeze, you will get ice daming, and leaking, and probably a more costly repair from water damage if you don't clear it off.
 
W

whitedust

Well-known member
xcr440 said:
I don't think it matters if your roof could hold your 1-Ton Deisel truck.

When it starts to melt, and refreeze, you will get ice daming, and leaking, and probably a more costly repair from water damage if you don't clear it off.
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X2 right on....Nobody likes to clear roofs but ice daming can be a PITA to a perfectly good roof just no where for the melt to go so gets dammed & forced under shingles a bad thing for any roof. If mother nature gradually melts down the snow or it goes all at once then that is as a good thing but never works out that way in the northwoods.
 
chords

chords

Active member
My concern is ice build up on a roof with furnace cranking and overhang and valleys with nothing extra beyond shingles with no one around to clear with a rake when needed. It has been cleared a few times over the years but more as a " I feel better "
But I worry more about two - size 13 - boots walking around on prob 1/2 " plywood or less, not the roof collapsing. This roof was engineered by pencil , paper, and hammers.

One valley leak in 46 years in N Lower MI

And just like there is no such thing as safe ice - no matter how correctly a roof is shoveled that risk is always there
- great or little - .
 
U

uperjim

Member
ok---I am a both a licensed builder in Michigan and a licensed mechanical engineer.

I have relatively new construction buildings 200yards from Superior---6/12 pitch and metal. I have cleared the roofs when necessary. Not worth it to take a chance. Usually I have unbalanced loads due to drifting on different sides of the peaks. Too many variables---trusses are designed assuming uniform loading. This year I had a drift off the back overhang that curled out about 6'. huge load on an overhang which is not the strongest part of a roof.

Also have a new house ---built this past year in Grand Haven. 10/12 pitch--shingled with 4/12 porch off the 10/12. I knew when i built it the 4/12 was an issue but the wife wanted the covered porch.

Yes we (her and I ) shoveled about 3-4 ' off the 4/12 roof . Not worth the chance of getting rain . And I had 0 issues with ice or dams but we still removed the snow. Worth the piece of mind and there was enough crust on the shingles that we didn't touch 1 shingle with a shovel.

And oh BTW---was up in the UP over the w/e and had -28 at the cabin. There was allot of creaking and popping going on that night in the structure. Do the calculations take into account the thermal expansion and contraction of one side exposed to -28 and the inside exposed to my 75 degree woodstove fueled interior-----that is a 100 degree differential.

If you are so naive as to answer yes------then go ahead and not shovel!
 
P

polarisrider1

New member
uperjim said:
ok---I am a both a licensed builder in Michigan and a licensed mechanical engineer.

I have relatively new construction buildings 200yards from Superior---6/12 pitch and metal. I have cleared the roofs when necessary. Not worth it to take a chance. Usually I have unbalanced loads due to drifting on different sides of the peaks. Too many variables---trusses are designed assuming uniform loading. This year I had a drift off the back overhang that curled out about 6'. huge load on an overhang which is not the strongest part of a roof.

Also have a new house ---built this past year in Grand Haven. 10/12 pitch--shingled with 4/12 porch off the 10/12. I knew when i built it the 4/12 was an issue but the wife wanted the covered porch.

Yes we (her and I ) shoveled about 3-4 ' off the 4/12 roof . Not worth the chance of getting rain . And I had 0 issues with ice or dams but we still removed the snow. Worth the piece of mind and there was enough crust on the shingles that we didn't touch 1 shingle with a shovel.

And oh BTW---was up in the UP over the w/e and had -28 at the cabin. There was allot of creaking and popping going on that night in the structure. Do the calculations take into account the thermal expansion and contraction of one side exposed to -28 and the inside exposed to my 75 degree woodstove fueled interior-----that is a 100 degree differential.

If you are so naive as to answer yes------then go ahead and not shovel!
Click to expand...
If your in GH and need a Tileguy? I am next door.
 
R

rp7x

Well-known member
still shovel'n

did another shed with shingles last night , the sunny side is already dry !
 
B

Bradzoo

Active member
I had 18" of hard pack a couple weeks ago with rain coming followed by below zero cold, I shoveled!! The cabin roof is metal and talking with my neighbor it hasn't slid yet, next time up it will get shoveled also

Bradzoo
 
A

arcticgeorge

New member
Roof shoveling is common here in Ironwood. Old homes, new construction too. Several business' offer the service....I rake my with a snow rake. Some people dont care but the ones that do shovel their own roof or hire somebody. Your body weight isnt going to matter. I have shoveled old roof's with 2 or 3 other guys on it. The light fluffy snow is no biggie but when that stuff melts, compacts and rains on it there is a lot of weight. Glad there was this thread to take the attention off of mine.
 
N

npswi

New member
This thread makes me laugh. I have owned a property maintenance business that has shoveled well over 500 roofs in the Iron Co. Wi area since 1992. I have NEVER heard of anyone falling through a roof while removing snow. The odds seem very unlikely.

The older the structure the more likely it needs the load removed. It is not all about the structure falling in or over. This area is full of older structures with bowed roofs due to heavy loads that are still standing. One must also consider uncovering various structure venting that can cause other issues.
The dangers of falling off the average roof is small if you know what you are doing and have the proper tools. A quality snow scoop is a must (http://www.scoopsandrakes.com/snow-scoops-shovels.html).
I own a factory truss built 1998 home that I do not worry about the load. I only shovel a 20-40 lean to shed built on to the back of my Cleary pole building with a low pitch.
If you have good insurance you can take risks. If you do not enjoy to have your property damaged, you may wish to have the snow removed. Considering the work involved, it is pretty cheap to have the snow removed from a home (couple hundred bucks for most areas). Most of us spend more on sled belts in the season. Also, this only happens once every 10 or so years.
 
U

uperjim

Member
I am enjoying this thread too!

When my trusses were delivered the truck bounced off a few trees and dumped them on the ground all banded together. I am sure a few plates loosened some. Also I was a bit dismayed---some of the top chords had some pretty big knots and they paid no attention to where they placed these in the truss. Now a GOOD old time builder ( I am envisioning John scrutinizing his lumber) would automatically look at a rafter and know whether he wanted to place the knot in compression on the top side etc. The kids working at the truss companies just grab the boards. On average everything works and everything is fine.

BUT---all with these variables even the engineered truss's are not perfect and they vary truss to truss to a degree.

I guess maybe I am a worry wart but it is better to be safe.

Hey--maybe we need to put some of that Sea and Snow oil on the metal to make everything slide ------wadda ya think??????? Or maybe Amsoil????
 
P

polarisrider1

New member
My engineered trusses are 6/12 pitch 24 oc for 90 lbs per sq.ft. snow load and I shoveled at 4.5 ft. deep for peace of mind. neighbors 2 doors over have a double wide with 3/12 pitch and a 20# snow load, poor guy is 96 and rakes his roof for exercise, ya right.
 
S

snobuilder

Well-known member
OK, go ahead and run with scissors, but I still ain't shovelin the 2 feet a snow offa my roof.

....and if i was in big BIG snow country, I'd take NPSWI's advise, roll the dice and hire a couple yocals outta the bar to shovel my roof for some cash.....LOL
 
N

npswi

New member
"I'd take NPSWI's advise, roll the dice and hire a couple yocals outta the bar to shovel my roof for some cash.....LOL"

You can hire "yocals" and save some cash if you wish. You also can hire a company with insurance and workers comp. I see it all up here and I understand "saving a buck". I guess this whole thread is about risks and how one wishes to manage them.

Again, regardless of how well your building is built, why would one wish to have the headache of a damaged structure when it is pretty cheap to solve the issues. As a property owner you should be smart enough to weigh the risks. As I stated before, I do not shovel 2' of snow off my house. My house is in an open area and also does not get piled on or get ice dams. If I had 30"+ on my roof I would remove it.
 
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