The Future of our sport

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attakman

Well-known member
There are some major issues we are facing with our sport in northern Wisconsin....Large tracts of land are being swallowed up by out of state folks...Some of these are logging companies, some are hunting groups and some are just recreational property owners. We are finding that some of these people do not like snowmobiling, and they are closing trails on their land...this has been happening for at least ten years...we are losing trails slowly, and it's becoming increasingly difficult for clubs to re-route major trails. Some folks are allowing the trails to go through with no issue...others are being very difficult...a lot of butt kissing, takes place every year.....For example there is one land owner ...who makes 3 different clubs jump through hoops (he bought huge tracts of land in Oneida County)...we have to mow, and maintain his land all summer and fall...and it took major work to get him to let us open the trails around Christmas time, as he originally didn't want anybody on his land until after January 1st, because goups of people are hunting there. We finally got it worked out...but for awhile he was ticked off at 2 of the 3 clubs, and threatened to close off the trails....which would have affected 4 businesses...it was a major route. We also have land owners who want us to close the minute it warms up, and the frost starts coming out of the ground....they do not care about easements, nor that Wisconsin's snowmobile season can run until mid night April First. The clubs so far have done a masterful job at handling difficult land owners, and or land situations. But it gets tougher every year. Loud cans, and trespassing continue to be issues for these people..every year we get threatened with trail closures because of these two issues....I found it does no good to harp about it here or on any Facebook snowmobiling page...we simply have failed with educating the public on these two issues, and it's going to cost us trails...as most of the guys with cans do not care. (I don't bother saying anything anymore, it just starts fights)
We were getting screamed at by people who don't live here to open our trails (after they were temporarily closed due to lack of snow)...it's sickening..the entitlement, and lack of respect... .the amount of keyboard warrior know it all's..blasting clubs over every little thing is ridiculous...it really begins to grate on people..the amount of abuse our president, and secretary took the last 3 years is unreal....nobody deserves that......the old people have just had enough...time for other people to step up. In talking with other area clubs this is an issue..lots of the "old boys" that did all the work are retiring...we have an aging sport, that is slowly dying as most young people can not afford to buy new machines to ride. The last 3 years have been a rough one for the clubs up here. I'm stepping back a bit myself...just gonna ride my sled next winter, and ignore the internet trolls as much as possible....it's just gotten too stupid lately
 
W

wisco-mb

Active member
Very well said!
We unfortunately are witnessing the slow demise of our sport. The work put in by many of the clubs is phenomenal. It takes a lot of hard work and dedication. And for what? These are the same issues we are dealing with in the Southern part of the state. And we hardly open trails! Our president has said this is a couple times, "I'm about to be done, and just sit back and try to ride snowmobile trails like everyone else, who puts in no work!".
We're at a point where we need every single person who rides to contribute to this sport. I'm not interested in people's excuses. Just go get it done and help. And I'm not talking financially. Actual work.
I feel we almost need more support/work from the businesses that reap the benefits. I know some are good supporters financially wise, but we need more help.
I'm 40, and the next youngest in our county association and local club is 67. That is not sustainable. Look at this board as an example age wise.
I took 7 days of PTO last December to mark and sign trails. And we didn't open! Luckily I had extra PTO last year, but that won't be the case going forward. Trails will just not get put in unfortunately. You'll start seeing that statewide shortly. We already have.

In my opinion this winter didn't help the sport very much. It was great seeing good snowfall in the northwoods, and the businesses generating some revenue in the winter vs the last couple years. However, this was my shortest mileage season in quite some time. I'm 2-3 hours away from good snow conditions, and do not have a family cabin. My family consists of my wife and one son, but a weekend trip up north is normally a minimum of $900-$1K. There was basically no trails opened south of 64 for the entire winter. Part of Southern WI opened trails for a couple days, but most could not due to hunting and trails not in yet. Then it warmed up. Yesterday was the first time using my snowblower since 12/10. Basically all "wasted" snow for our sport. I do enjoy those storms, but very disappointed. It's been the same for the last 10-15 years in this cycle. '19 was pretty good, but we haven't much for open trails past a weekend or 2, with minimal conditions.

I'm a safety snowmobile instructor. My first two were in '23 and '24. Attendance was low for the first one, basically just member's grandkids. The second was decent, 10 students. I had to cancel my last 2 classes! Spring and Fall of '25. I have another one listed, but no one currently signed up. That is very scary. The comments have been that sports schedules and lack of snow have been big factors. I start off with explaining the importance of the clubs. This is the education I feel is the most important. We need these clubs for our sport to survive.

And the financial side...... The middle class is disappearing and people are just trying to live. It's great seeing families and old iron out locally, but those snowfalls and conditions have been hard lately.
Look at those big landownership changes. Small family farms and lands are getting bought up by bigger corporations. They don't care about your local club, community or businesses. Hunting seasons are getting longer, which is another thing we have to contest with. Majority of our land and trails we cannot even start marking until after the gun hunt is over, which is already December.

People are very passionate about Snowmobiling. You see that all over. One of the reasons where we got to where we are presently. But it will need more help from everyone going forward!
 
J

JimAndros

Active member
Exactly but let's not forget about lack of communication from the DNR, counties or clubs. The media does a horse shit job too.

The club's are their own worse enemies. Some (read as most) have websites with zero activity/no current news. Let's all rely on Mark Z and his tracking system FB to communicate.
All the clubs post on there is bo-ho pity us "We have no members". Maybe because of all of the above. Maybe because if a newbie arrives he's briefly welcomed then exiled to a distant corner to rot.
So briefly, I'm old & live in a nice area with nice trails but the weatherman hasn't been kind in recent times. The passion is gone for me.
 
J

JimAndros

Active member
Wisco,
We can't control the weather & maybe land owner issues can be minimized, IDK.

Prior to 2005 I lived in Pierce County & the off trail warriors were a huge issue there. The backs of lots of the signs read "MN stay home" in magic marker. So not a new issue.

You guys in Marguette got hosed by the county & DNR over the muzzle loader season. I realize land owners have rights & pay taxes and buy hunting license but snowmobiles pay registration & trail pass for Nothing, not even 1 minute of use. Do all zones have active hunters? They can't hunt in the dark, can trails have limited hours, say after 4pm? Villages (Winneconne for 1) have curfew hours.
 
A

attakman

Well-known member
JimAndros said:
Exactly but let's not forget about lack of communication from the DNR, counties or clubs. The media does a horse shit job too.

The club's are their own worse enemies. Some (read as most) have websites with zero activity/no current news. Let's all rely on Mark Z and his tracking system FB to communicate.
All the clubs post on there is bo-ho pity us "We have no members". Maybe because of all of the above. Maybe because if a newbie arrives he's briefly welcomed then exiled to a distant corner to rot.
So briefly, I'm old & live in a nice area with nice trails but the weatherman hasn't been kind in recent times. The passion is gone for me.
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This true..but rather than lose my passion for a sport I love....I am choosing to back off for awhile, and just ride....tired of the politics, and bs
 
W

whitedust

Well-known member
JimAndros said:
Exactly but let's not forget about lack of communication from the DNR, counties or clubs. The media does a horse shit job too.

The club's are their own worse enemies. Some (read as most) have websites with zero activity/no current news. Let's all rely on Mark Z and his tracking system FB to communicate.
All the clubs post on there is bo-ho pity us "We have no members". Maybe because of all of the above. Maybe because if a newbie arrives he's briefly welcomed then exiled to a distant corner to rot.
So briefly, I'm old & live in a nice area with nice trails but the weatherman hasn't been kind in recent times. The passion is gone for me.
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I hear ya Jim take away my local trails and that’s the final nail in the coffin for me. My current club does the best they can but I’m 79 now not much I can still do to maintain trails. I’m sure I’m the oldest member that I’ve seen that shows for meetings and I didn’t attend the last 2 meetings lack of local snow just sucked the enthusiasm out of me. Chasing snow to the UP has also become laborious lots to do to get , truck trailer and sled ready for transport. Idk what the future will bring next year for me I’m more into day trips than a 5 day trip. Near by trails go away and so do I …. I’ve had my fun can’t complain but no one lives forever bodies get old even tho the spirit is willing.
 
A

attakman

Well-known member
I have had 3 different people (yes all 3 from Illinois)...argue with me about Wisconsin liability laws and snowmobiling....they have no clue, and think they know everything....it's really irritating...Ive been volunteering up here for 3 different clubs for 35 years...but I don't know what the hell I'm talking about....smh
 
Airman68

Airman68

Active member
I have been snowmobiling for 40 years. It is true the sleds nowadays are so expensive. However, has anyone seen the price of UTV's? I can't believe it. That sport has been taking off for various reasons. Then add the poor weather situation. If a guy needs to pick a sport to spend money on, what is he going to pick? Something he can do 9 mos of the year or something he might be able to do 8 weeks of the year. I seem to think this is playing a part in the snowmobile sport decline as well.
 
D

durphee

Well-known member
The demgraphics of sledding are definitely changing. Seems the younger generations are not as interested in sledding. My kids are not interested in sledding, they love to side by side and have chosen to spend their money there instead of chasing the white gold. As far as trespassing/online warriors/cans/etc... yeah respect for others seems to be at a low point and you see if throughout politics, social media, general public areas. I call them trash people and if you are one that celebrates or supports this behavior then yes, you are trash. Ever look at sporting events? You wonder why high schools cant get refs/officals? Everyone feels entitled to scream and treat them like crap. And remember, theres the "its always someone elses fault" folks. Its never their or their kids fault, its the teachers, the refs, the other poltical party...etc....again, mostly trash people. A littel respect goes a long way and would help keep trails open.
IMO, and only my opinion, I feel that many local areas (counties) who profit highly from sledding really need to hire a full time/part time temp (almost like a seasonal snow plow driver the state/counties hire) postition in the fall and winter to help maintain trails (bushing/grooming, etc..) that is funded through tax money collected through those activities. You could hire that person form unemployment services and offer good seasonal pay. I know this isnt perfect but look at what would happen if sledding stopped up north (hence, look at the tax revenue several years ago when the trails didnt open).
 
A

attakman

Well-known member
durphee said:
The demgraphics of sledding are definitely changing. Seems the younger generations are not as interested in sledding. My kids are not interested in sledding, they love to side by side and have chosen to spend their money there instead of chasing the white gold. As far as trespassing/online warriors/cans/etc... yeah respect for others seems to be at a low point and you see if throughout politics, social media, general public areas. I call them trash people and if you are one that celebrates or supports this behavior then yes, you are trash. Ever look at sporting events? You wonder why high schools cant get refs/officals? Everyone feels entitled to scream and treat them like crap. And remember, theres the "its always someone elses fault" folks. Its never their or their kids fault, its the teachers, the refs, the other poltical party...etc....again, mostly trash people. A littel respect goes a long way and would help keep trails open.
IMO, and only my opinion, I feel that many local areas (counties) who profit highly from sledding really need to hire a full time/part time temp (almost like a seasonal snow plow driver the state/counties hire) postition in the fall and winter to help maintain trails (bushing/grooming, etc..) that is funded through tax money collected through those activities. You could hire that person form unemployment services and offer good seasonal pay. I know this isnt perfect but look at what would happen if sledding stopped up north (hence, look at the tax revenue several years ago when the trails didnt open).
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We already do this, our trail Boss is a 8 month of the year paid position....and he in turn organizes, and gets volunteers together to maintain trails ...year round.
 
D

durphee

Well-known member
attakman said:
We already do this, our trail Boss is a 8 month of the year paid position....and he in turn organizes, and gets volunteers together to maintain trails ...year round.
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That is great and maybe a model for others to consider...at least for the clubs that I am more aware of.
 
E

euphoric1

Well-known member
Our club membership exploded when the club member/trail pass discount came to be but since then and even more recently our membership has dropped by 40%, the same trend is happening throughout the county as well putting a crimp on membership fee collections and Alliance funds alike. We were facing a considerable increase in Alliance and club fees to pick up the slack. We are currently working on a fundraiser to help offset that potential loss of revenue and increase of club fee's as some of the clubs have become so small it would be a hard ask, but we need these clubs as the burden would be huge on surviving clubs to put in and maintain trails, mind you the bigger clubs are also dwindling as well. What's irritating is the 40% that have gone by the way side are the 40% you never see at the meetings. We just had our nominations meeting and elections next and guess what??? Same 6 to 10 people there who already hold officers or important positions in the club, then when it comes to nominations we have no choice but to keep ourselves in, shift them around a little but again...the same 6 to 10 people out of a membership of 45 which not too long ago was approaching 100 and still the same 6 to 10 people. As far as the member who joins and gets cast to the side, the way I could see that happening is if its "that member" who tells everyone how they should be doing things but never lifts a finger or volunteers for things, not saying its right but again think about the same 6 to 10 people who have been pulling all the weight all of a sudden someone telling them how they should be doing things. Our biggest attended meeting is always the Christmas party, some members.... the only time you ever see them and why not?... free food and drink?? then you have the ones with the balls to complain about the food. I can see officer or active member burnout being a real thing, do you blame them? And there are positions and things everyone can do regardless of age as well, as far as the I'm too busy thing goes what if everyone was too busy and nothing would happen? then what would we have? and as far as the "it never snows in my neck of the woods goes" what would happen if we just waited until it snowed to put the trails in? again.... what would we have? its funny how people don't have the time to chip in yet have the time to ride them when rideable...how does that work? even a few hours of volunteering a year would make a big difference and be greatly appreciated by those who somehow do it all. I understand how SxS is popular but I'd be willing to bet if you asked Northwoods establishments what it was that was their biggest draw... fishing, snowmobiling, hunting or four wheeling I bet its hands down snowmobiling. The future of this sport is honestly scary, more so because of the lack of involvement and I don't mean in the sport itself but the backbone of the sport that makes it all possible. Take away the land owners and clubs what do you have??? nothing and both are equally as important and both require volunteering which is seriously lacking. I have to laugh about the phone line thing too same thing happened to one of our local clubs to a point where they were considering shutting it down. I would be very curious as to how many of them are active club members bitchin or even club members at all, im sorry but im willing to bet not many and that just takes balls to bitch instead od doing something about it.
 
A

attakman

Well-known member
euphoric1 said:
Our club membership exploded when the club member/trail pass discount came to be but since then and even more recently our membership has dropped by 40%, the same trend is happening throughout the county as well putting a crimp on membership fee collections and Alliance funds alike. We were facing a considerable increase in Alliance and club fees to pick up the slack. We are currently working on a fundraiser to help offset that potential loss of revenue and increase of club fee's as some of the clubs have become so small it would be a hard ask, but we need these clubs as the burden would be huge on surviving clubs to put in and maintain trails, mind you the bigger clubs are also dwindling as well. What's irritating is the 40% that have gone by the way side are the 40% you never see at the meetings. We just had our nominations meeting and elections next and guess what??? Same 6 to 10 people there who already hold officers or important positions in the club, then when it comes to nominations we have no choice but to keep ourselves in, shift them around a little but again...the same 6 to 10 people out of a membership of 45 which not too long ago was approaching 100 and still the same 6 to 10 people. As far as the member who joins and gets cast to the side, the way I could see that happening is if its "that member" who tells everyone how they should be doing things but never lifts a finger or volunteers for things, not saying its right but again think about the same 6 to 10 people who have been pulling all the weight all of a sudden someone telling them how they should be doing things. Our biggest attended meeting is always the Christmas party, some members.... the only time you ever see them and why not?... free food and drink?? then you have the ones with the balls to complain about the food. I can see officer or active member burnout being a real thing, do you blame them? And there are positions and things everyone can do regardless of age as well, as far as the I'm too busy thing goes what if everyone was too busy and nothing would happen? then what would we have? and as far as the "it never snows in my neck of the woods goes" what would happen if we just waited until it snowed to put the trails in? again.... what would we have? its funny how people don't have the time to chip in yet have the time to ride them when rideable...how does that work? even a few hours of volunteering a year would make a big difference and be greatly appreciated by those who somehow do it all. I understand how SxS is popular but I'd be willing to bet if you asked Northwoods establishments what it was that was their biggest draw... fishing, snowmobiling, hunting or four wheeling I bet its hands down snowmobiling. The future of this sport is honestly scary, more so because of the lack of involvement and I don't mean in the sport itself but the backbone of the sport that makes it all possible. Take away the land owners and clubs what do you have??? nothing and both are equally as important and both require volunteering which is seriously lacking. I have to laugh about the phone line thing too same thing happened to one of our local clubs to a point where they were considering shutting it down. I would be very curious as to how many of them are active club members bitchin or even club members at all, im sorry but im willing to bet not many and that just takes balls to bitch instead od doing something about it.
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x2....you are 100 percent correct...I'm certainly not saying I'm doing all the work at all...but there are about 4 people that handle the bulk of our club business, and a few area rider's/support clubs now do the majority of the brushing and lake marking which is nice.....however the majority of those volunteers are mostly older men and women, either retired or close to it...very few young people involved...I know somebody mentioned that young people are choosing UTVs over snowmobiles, and that might be true in some areas of the Midwest...but not here...the majority of Utv buyers are older (45 plus), and they are buying full cab models with heat and a/c...even the sport/open cab models are very expensive for younger folks. (which is what they seem to purchase, when they do buy)...we probably see 5 to 1 Defender cab models over any other Utv we sell. They've become the golf carts of the Northwoods...basically used for bar hopping here in Northern Wisconsin.....Must just be our generation...us old people like to drink..lol....it seems the youngsters smoke pot and play video games
 
ddhanna

ddhanna

Active member
What a depressing thread! Why is it many clubs continue to thrive year after year despite all the issues mentioned here which have mostly been going on since the beginnings?
 
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