The Perfect Up North Property

[skiroule]

I think everyone on here has either wanted, thought about, or is lucky enough to have a place up North.

So what makes it that perfect place?

How long of a drive from home is it for you?

What would you do differently if you could change something about your place?

What's on your must have list?

Really interesting reading people’s take on your questions, based on their experience.

When we started looking for a cabin, we identified a few basic priorities that we had in mind. Fishing was a big priority, as was lake access (preferably lakeshore), electricity availability, and, of all things, a functioning septic system. My wife will not go near an outhouse.

Fortunately, about 10 years ago we found a place that met our priorities at a price we could afford. The cabin sat on a couple of acres of land, had a clean shoreline, dock, and a brand-new mound system. It didn’t have a well but we’re fine with pulling filtered lake water for showers, laundry, dishwasher, etc.- nice, soft water.

The cabin had good bones but needed a complete remodel. We took it down to the studs and started over – windows, doors, electrical, plumbing, insulation, everything. We did almost all the work ourselves but it took us about a year to the day after we started working on it to finish it.

Since everything in the cabin was upgraded, there is minimal maintenance required on the building, although the deck/stairs could use re-staining now. It’s on the “I’ll get to it someday list.”

We more or less relocate to the cabin in the summer. I run back and forth to the house occasionally but it’s only an hour away so it is no big deal. My wife maybe goes back to the house two or three times a summer.

We really can’t think of anything we might have done differently. We wouldn’t mind having a well for drinking water and a big garage would be nice but unless I win the Powerball, that’s not happening any time soon.

Yes, there’s cost and some work involved but we think this view makes it worthwhile.

 

[Sweep800]

You drive right by my place when leaving the addition. I'm on the left after the docks. Red p/u and enclosed trailer in driveway.

Yup, saw your place! Nice! Think I saw you leaving yesterday off 1/2 mile

 

[lofsfire]

Thanks for the replies, lots of great thoughts & opinions are given here. For me, I think I'm leaning more towards something I can make my own. Start off more of a campsite. Or something with a large storage building then add a cabin in the future. Keeping the maintenance low is high on the list. I want to use the place for enjoyment not work every time I go there. So I'm not sure if I just have not found the right spot or if I'm not 100% on what I want. Maybe it's a combination of the two... But I'm keeping my options open. That way when it does come up I can hopefully grab it...

 

[jjj70095]

Was lucky to afford my vacation property (cottage) on Minocqua chain in 1994 at age 27 for $140k. People thought I was crazy as it was just a cottage. Built a home on it and approaching one million right now. Almost as good as my investment in Apple!

Nothing like being out on your boat and knowing your house is appreciating. Prices in the Northwoods have risen 60 percent the past 3 years!!


You won't see a lot of homes for sale because everyone is locked in at 3-4 percent mortgage.

 

[Hoosier]

The point in time where folks within the "middle class" range of household income (including much of "upper middle class") possessed the purchasing power to afford a second home for vacation purposes has passed. (Unless of course you come into a windfall or have generational wealth in your family somewhere - lucky you.) The RE run-up the past 3-4 year has killed that. In some parts of the country that same demo of buyer is also now priced-out from buying a first home.

It may swing back around again as RE cycles are prone to do, but if that happens the time between now and then will be very painful both individually and nationwide, so be careful what you wish for. The best case scenario is RE prices hold more consistent with CPI (a thing in most of the country, historically) coupled with incomes slowly catching up, but you are talking years if not more than a decade in that scenario.

I think this is 100% true. We had a family lakehouse for 51 summers (before I was born!) that was passed down but sold a couple years ago as some of the heirs saw the dollar signs (it's their money so i don't fault them, although I miss it greatly). We have been looking for something to replace it with the 1/4 my parents got out of the sale (shared with 3 other siblings) but prices are insane.

I do wonder if prices will come back to earth as people see that either money or effort is required to keep up these properties. It may just be that there is more demand than supply, especially from the upper 2% or 3% where so much of the cashflow seems to be go these days, but that's a barstool topic! Would love to see the properties stay in the hands of people that use them for their families and to get outdoors, instead of just for a getaway trophy or investment...

 

[chords]

I was fortunate to inherit our NE Lower Hubbard Lake front home. Built in 1968 I grew up there more than our N Detroit home. My kids growing up spent a lot of time there also and their family's now are very involved and I have it set up to pass on to my son. And hopefully beyond. My home for 31 yrs is N Detroit. Though its a 4 hr drive one way, I don't want to live there but I spend extended time there winter and summer. For youse on the fence, you know what they say - "They ain't making anymore lake front"

 

[rph130]

Thanks for the replies, lots of great thoughts & opinions are given here. For me, I think I'm leaning more towards something I can make my own. Start off more of a campsite. Or something with a large storage building then add a cabin in the future. Keeping the maintenance low is high on the list. I want to use the place for enjoyment not work every time I go there. So I'm not sure if I just have not found the right spot or if I'm not 100% on what I want. Maybe it's a combination of the two... But I'm keeping my options open. That way when it does come up I can hopefully grab it...

Where are you looking to be or do you have a preferred location/area in mind? The reason I ask is I have a friend in real estate and she is always telling me about new land for sale.

 

[SledTL]

Thanks for the replies, lots of great thoughts & opinions are given here. For me, I think I'm leaning more towards something I can make my own. Start off more of a campsite. Or something with a large storage building then add a cabin in the future. Keeping the maintenance low is high on the list. I want to use the place for enjoyment not work every time I go there. So I'm not sure if I just have not found the right spot or if I'm not 100% on what I want. Maybe it's a combination of the two... But I'm keeping my options open. That way when it does come up I can hopefully grab it...

Buying land and slowly building on it is the only way that you will be able to make it work unless you have a large chunk of money sitting around (500K+ IMO). I really wanted to purchase a cabin in MN being as there is so many, but I have just given up the idea of doing it. I am not spending 20-30 weekends away, and I can rent places in any town I want to be in with no strings attached throughout the year via airbnb. Sure it is not cheap, but the time and responsibility associated with a second home just doesn't make sense for me. I've had a place in SE wis in my family my whole life, and all of the houses are 1.3mil and up. No way that anyone is buying into that working "normal" jobs. Plus with variability of snow, I go where it is. Sometimes 50 miles a different direction is way better.

 

[hermie]

I think sledtl has hit the nail on the head. We bought up in Saint Germain in 7 years ago looking to spend around $150k or less. We found a manufactured home with 2.5 acres for $130k. We are not on a Lake we are 1 lot of of found Lake. The prices of homes in Vilas has gone crazy. I don't think I could find one today that I could afford. I am a blue collar worker running conduit and pulling wire everyday. I wish I would of bought more east or west out of the vacation hub of the Northwoods. It's crazy up there in the summer. We do get up about 35 to 40 weekends a year. Snowmobile trails are excellent in Saint Germain. The Boboen's do the best job of grooming in all of Vilas in my opinion and that was a big factor in us buying there. I think you need to write down your priorities in a 2nd property or home and budget and take it from there

 

[elf]

Buying land and slowly building on it is the only way that you will be able to make it work unless you have a large chunk of money sitting around (500K+ IMO). I really wanted to purchase a cabin in MN being as there is so many, but I have just given up the idea of doing it. I am not spending 20-30 weekends away, and I can rent places in any town I want to be in with no strings attached throughout the year via airbnb. Sure it is not cheap, but the time and responsibility associated with a second home just doesn't make sense for me. I've had a place in SE wis in my family my whole life, and all of the houses are 1.3mil and up. No way that anyone is buying into that working "normal" jobs. Plus with variability of snow, I go where it is. Sometimes 50 miles a different direction is way better.

So this is kind of the way we did it. We originally looked for a existing cabin but they were either outrageously priced or absolute junk. So we changed our plan to buy land and build. Luckily we could do most of the stuff ourselves. I had to hire out the dirt work, well and septic, taping and mudding, and siding. The last two just because I really hate doing either of them and only being able to work on weekends would've taken months more to accomplish. But we did all the framing, roofing, electrical, plumbing, in floor heat, etc... So we ended up at about 1125 sq ft, 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, and while I know this is 2005 dollars we had about $110K into it, land included. Whats not included in that cost was the expense of us going up about every dang weekend for 6 months, our labor, misc items I finished/added since that time, etc... I think I mentioned before we'd still be money ahead if we just stayed in hotels every weekend due to the upfront cost and upkeep but it's nice to be able to leave your gear there, always have your own bed to sleep in, prepare meals, etc... And we almost always have great snow conditions up there.

So while building supplies are more expensive now land up by us has not gone crazy but we are not on a lake, just easy acess to trails. So if you're talented and willing to learn (google and you tube is your friend) you can do it affordably.

 

[jjj70095]

Even though I own a place on a lake, I know I would still enjoy a house/cabin that was not on a lake. Simply trailer to a lake once or twice a week. You will not get the price appreciation on a lake house, but I do not think you will lose money,and you still will enjoy the Northwoods as much as someone on a lake. You can get a more private lot as well.

 

[lofsfire]

Where are you looking to be or do you have a preferred location/area in mind? The reason I ask is I have a friend in real estate and she is always telling me about new land for sale.

Well, I wish I could say I was that lottery winner a week or two ago but it wasn't me. But I have been saving. I'm definitely not buying some mansion but I don't need that either. Really though I'm pretty simple I don't mind doing a campsite style a lot. In fact I really kind of like sleeping in my trailer. For those of you that may not remember I'm the guy that somebody comment on the picture of the interior my trailer, "He's even got a toothbrush holder" yeah that's me...

Honestly, part of the problem is figuring out where I want to buy at. I've looked all over. The Cadillac area is the first area I snowmobiled in and I know it like the back of my hand. It's also only a 3.5hr drive which makes it the closest and easiest to get to with no Chicago traffic to deal with. Which I know is part of the reason I know it so well. Being it was a short drive and as my kids were growing up it was easy to take them after school and not get in too late and then spend the weekend and come back. Which is why it has always been my go to spot. With that said, even though I'm planning on passing this down everything is still an investment which makes me think Wis. Northwoods seems to be better for that. Last year when I was up by Mercer, I thought to my this would be a nice place to have some land. But I also know I will not spend most of my weekends wherever this place ends up being. Which is another reason I'm leaning towards more of a campsite style place. It's a place of my own but allows me some flexibility. It would also give me the ability to buy a place near my house that would have a large pole barn on.

As far as knowing how to build, that is not my problem. I can do it all but my back doesn't let me work the way I'd like to anymore. But, I would like it to use it to teach my kids how to do more of the work on their own. Yes, I know that comes with his own headaches and some great memories too...

"We'd still be money ahead if we just stayed in hotels every weekend." I have heard this more than a few times... Another reason I'm leaning towards just land. If I can't get up there as much as I'd like, it's a lower investment cost and allows me to think of it more as a future investment. Either for me to build something on later or the kids when it comes time.

 

[gary_in_neenah]

I've been following this thread for a couple of weeks now and I believe that the answer to The Perfect Up North Property is whatever you make of it. From campsites to two story lakefronts, we all have different dreams, desires, and ambitions. One thing that hasn't been brought up is Property Taxes. Recreational land is generally taxed higher than multipurpose and that's one bill you will never pay off.

My Dad used to say that land and property are the last things to drop in value when times are hard and the first things to rise in value when times improve. So, if you're a buyer, you got that going for you.

Personally, I'm with the people who like a hot shower, soft bed, and housekeeping. The thought of maintaining another dwelling and keeping it secure, is more than I care to take on. But that's me, you do whatever fits your budget and lifestyle and we'll both be happy campers.

 

[lofsfire]

Even though I own a place on a lake, I know I would still enjoy a house/cabin that was not on a lake. Simply trailer to a lake once or twice a week. You will not get the price appreciation on a lake house, but I do not think you will lose money,and you still will enjoy the Northwoods as much as someone on a lake. You can get a

I think you right about that. My house is on a small lake so I don't have to have lake front property but I do think it could be a bonus.

I've been following this thread for a couple of weeks now and I believe that the answer to The Perfect Up North Property is whatever you make of it. From campsites to two story lakefronts, we all have different dreams, desires, and ambitions. One thing that hasn't been brought up is Property Taxes. Recreational land is generally taxed higher than multipurpose and that's one bill you will never pay off.

My Dad used to say that land and property are the last things to drop in value when times are hard and the first things to rise in value when times improve. So, if you're a buyer, you got that going for you.

Personally, I'm with the people who like a hot shower, soft bed, and housekeeping. The thought of maintaining another dwelling and keeping it secure, is more than I care to take on. But that's me, you do whatever fits your budget and lifestyle and we'll both be happy campers.

You are right, I guess by asking the question I was looking for common theme of must haves or negatives. If there was something that kept standing out as to do or not to do, it would be worth looking into more and learning from someone else's experiences.

As for the hot shower, I'm I have not figured that out 100 percent but I have ideas. But I will come up with something.

As for taxes, I have looked into these and have found areas I want to avoid.

 

[Sweep800]

my two places have around the same value but my property taxes up on the lake are about a third of my one in western burbs of Chicago(). I could probably almost semi retire if I was to move up there but wife doesn’t want to. Second grandchild was born a couple days ago so we just get two residences! Lol

 

[ddhanna]

Property taxes are based upon assessed value. Doesn't matter if the property is lake, recreational, residential, etc. although those things can have an affect on the assessed value.

 

[pclark]

Very pleased with Property taxes on my Vilas County lakefront home. You also have to remember that you are not getting much for those taxes, pretty much school if you still have kids that age if you live here, snowplowing in the winter, emergency services are volunteer in our little town, fire dept as well. We have already timed it and it's a tossup to drive to emergency room in Minocqua or wait for Paramedics. That was based on a neighbor waiting for the ambulance while I waited with her. So you have to take that all into consideration as well.

 

[lofsfire]

Property taxes are based upon assessed value. Doesn't matter if the property is lake, recreational, residential, etc. although those things can have an affect on the assessed value.

I think what gary_in_neenah was getting at was second place taxes will be higher than the guy that lives in the area full time. You lose the homestead deduction. Some places even hit out of state owners of second places at a bit higher rate. At least from what I have have seen...

 

[gary_in_neenah]

I think what gary_in_neenah was getting at was second place taxes will be higher than the guy that lives in the area full time. You lose the homestead deduction. Some places even hit out of state owners of second places at a bit higher rate. At least from what I have have seen...

Yeah, pretty much. Wisconsin has a history of soaking those from out of state with Taxes, Fees, Licenses, etc.

 

[ddhanna]

I think what gary_in_neenah was getting at was second place taxes will be higher than the guy that lives in the area full time. You lose the homestead deduction. Some places even hit out of state owners of second places at a bit higher rate. At least from what I have have seen...

I have 2 properties in Oneida County. Oneida doesn't know where I live full time. My residence could be Florida for all they know. My second property doesn't get the lottery credit which amounts to around 3% and the first dollar credit which is around 1%, not a big deal. The Homestead Exemption is more of an income tax thing from what I understand but I think most people don't qualify. Otherwise the two tax bills are both a simple percentage of the assessed value and the same for everybody.