So I rode around Hurley/Ironwood/Mercer last weekend and I couldn't help but notice how many bars, restaurants, hotels, and other businesses are closed or for sale. Some of the places I stopped were run by people that were too old to be working so hard. I also picked up a Realty paper at the gas station. Beaver Lodge, Granary Restaurant, Boulder Motor Lodge, Bootleggers (Nokomis), all places I've been to, and probably twenty other large resorts up for sale in that flyer alone. It's really kind of depressing. It makes me wonder if the business owners that benefit from the trail system will soon dwindle to the point where there won't be enough people to keep the system going. I can tell you that the Great Northern was packed with trailers, and most of the places we stopped had decent crowds, but what happens the rest of the year up there? Too many people going to Disney, too many kids' summer sports and activities? I don't know but I can't imagine how many people have lost their butts going up north to buy a business and failed. Just kind of wondering what the next decade will be like for things up there.
Tough Times in the Northwoods
- Thread starter blkhwkbob
- Start date
They made their Billions and moved on.
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lenny
Guest
You cannot say with certainty why some places close. Many places can support themselves year around and look at the winter as bonus.
No this is completely false...my good friend is an accountant in the northwoods and handles the books for several businesses (bar/grills, restaurants..etc). Most just get buy, a few do good....slow winters hurt bad. Winter is NOT some kind of bonus..to say that is ridiculous..
My parents are small business owners in mercer, so I think differently. Over the last 15 years mercer has done well and I personally think it’s going to do better in the next 15 years.
But I do agree it is sad to see some businesses closing and other that look like shot but are “ for sale”.
But I do agree it is sad to see some businesses closing and other that look like shot but are “ for sale”.
I could see where businesses in towns with a lot of traffic and trails will survive but the small, out of the way places probably can not survive much longer especially with bad winters mixed in.
The "rest of the year" all depends on the type of business and location. A bar with a pier (and good food) can do really well from boaters in the summer. A bar on an ATV trail can do really well in summer, but even Beaver Lodge (right on ATV trail) closes up during the slow times. A resort on a lake can make more money in summer than winter (which is why most only take reservations for a full week in summer).
The biggest threats to the trail system are losing trail access on private property, the lack of younger people joining clubs and helping out, and eventually fuel prices will rise again. If oil ever spikes up over 150-200 barrel and stays there, that might be the end of the trail system. People won't be able to afford to trailer to snow, and groomers will be too expensive to run. It's not going to end because of a few bad winters hurting bars and resorts. They have been dealing with bad winters since the trail system began in the 70's. Weather is just a gamble they take, sort of like being a farmer.
Your are absolutely correct snowmobiling is huge for the WI Northwoods and lots of folks in their 60s and 70s that own bar/grills are trying to retire. Problem is 20 to 40 somethings don’t want to live here away from urban amenities so a limited age market that will buy into Northwoods biz. Good Northwoods fishing is a myth except for Musky and every lake needs to be stocked with walley and work a deal with the Indians to lay off spearing so the fishing market is way smaller than it used to be. Mismanagement of the deer herd has reduced deer numbers so that hurts too. Summer is doing well on the lakes with warmer temperatures but over after Labor Day. Snowmobile Clubs are hurting up here too members are way too old to continue trail prep and grooming activities some are in their 80s! Clubs are finding it very difficult to get younger peeps involved. It is what it is and I don’t know what some of the old folks can do anymore probably walk away because active recruiting is not working for them. Big problems up North we need younger folks desperately to get involved and time is not on our side.
whitehorse
Member
Something you have to consider is that the books look one way (very little income) when it comes time to sell, that's why lenders won't finance these types of businesses without large down payments. Many of these businesses are sold via land contract because lenders won't touch them because the books look so poor.... but many or most owners will put as much in the pocket as they can...(don't blame them a bit). So it's difficult to know really how much they make or how successful some of these businesses actually are. With that said, there are certainly alot of bars and restaurants for sale up north and all over WI.
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G
Guest
This is not a new development. I have been going to NW Wisc since the early 90's. There are only about 1/2 the places there used to be. And most of them are only open on weekends. The ones that are left are not getting rich. This is happening for many reasons. Building and sewer codes that never used to be enforced but now have the sewer Gestapo to deal with are a factor. Taxes are a factor. High costs of new construction are a factor. There have always been the hole in the wall bars out in the middle of nowhere but there are a lot less of them now. The original owners got old and there is simply not enough money to be made to keep them going. They are not worth anything. So they close. A few good winters with lots of sled traffic is not going to reverse the trend. Many of these places were started long before the snowmobile trail system was developed. Mainly for fishing I would imagine. Times have just changed.
that's how it should be !
When I first started going to northern wi years ago, someone told me "everything is for sale" and while that is an exaggeration. Its not too far off the mark. Many bars and restaurants are for sale even if there isnt a sign out front. They are just listed on one or more commercial realty sites. Many are just on the market with an inflated price tag waiting for one of us flatlanders to "live the dream"
The problem with many of the businesses in the northwoods is that they havent been managed well and you may be buying a ton of deferred maintenance. A bunch of baby boomers semi retired into the bar business with no experience or exit strategy. I think its really showing now.
The problem with many of the businesses in the northwoods is that they havent been managed well and you may be buying a ton of deferred maintenance. A bunch of baby boomers semi retired into the bar business with no experience or exit strategy. I think its really showing now.
The tougher DUI laws have also hurt the bar business (everywhere, not just north woods), as well as the casinos. And the further a bar is from town, the tougher it is to get people in there. Up in Ontario, their DUI laws cracked down long before ours did (and much tougher penalties), and rural bars are nearly extinct there. It will likely happen here, too.
Jonger1150
New member
I think the cost of trail permits should be tripled and grooming needs to be hired out. We are not going to be able to do this with volunteers for very long. A perfect job for retirees would be to groom. Finding the next generation to do this is just a fantasy.
I pay almost $200 a year to ride in Canada and that just covers the permit. If you think that system could survive with $45 permits, you're smoking crack.
I pay almost $200 a year to ride in Canada and that just covers the permit. If you think that system could survive with $45 permits, you're smoking crack.
I suspect that north woods bar prices will be dropping significantly in the coming years, as more of those boomers want to fully retire, and there are not enough buyers. As already mentioned, banks don't like to finance those high bar prices, and there are not many people with enough cash and the desire to run a struggling bar business.
Jonger1150
New member
This is why all these gas stations are cash only. In fact, any business that is cash only in 2019 is only doing that to skim the cash without paying tax. Credit card processing is 2.5% max with the right company, they're doing it to pocket the cash. As socialist as this sounds, cash needs to go away. I'm a full Trump supporting conservative too. Cash also pays illegal immigrants and keeps that gravy train going. End cash.
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G
Guest
According to the MN Small Business Association Bars and Grillls have one of the highest rates of failure. And it has been like that for a long time. Many of these little Mom and Pop bars have had very little invested back in to them over the last decade or so. They might be paid for but very little upkeep or modernization has happened. The Moms and Pops are taking out all they possibly can. So in addition to the numbers for the business looking bad to a perspective buyer the property is going to need a lot of work. Unless they are in some kind of a magic location the exit strategy for most is to suck all they possibly can out of the business, turn 65 or whatever, and then just lock the doors.
Or have a "kitchen fire" and collect the insurance, LOL.